gun accuracy

Newton24b · December 7, 2011, 10:17 AM

went out shooting, pietta 1860 2011 proof mark. 30 grains pyrodex p hornady .454 roundball. range 25-30 yards.

one cylinder only.

5 shots stayed in 8 inche circle. 1st sot was a flyer.
shot to point of aim. no need to aim a foot low like ive read online is necessary.

is this a freek of nature or just first time luck?

did get a cap jammed under the hammer, it just mashed on the frame without falling inside. a nother spent cap jammed the cylinder up when it got caught on the nipple and recoil shield. the cap ejector channel doesnt do anything.

canola oil isnt that good for arbor lubrication, but does a good job of making the whole gun smell like burned bbq chicken.

at that range the bullets stopped in about 6 inches of newspaper, dry. biggest deformed bullet was almost the same diameter at the OD of the muzzle. not bad really, but none of them seem to have impacted head on. almost looks like the minute they hit the target, the imperfections left by the rammer made them flip sideways.

the noise, god awful. 6 shots was all i could take, ears were horrid for a few hours. its like compressing 100 rounds of 22 mag into 6 shots.

the rifleer · December 7, 2011, 10:25 AM

If you find the right load and use a clean bore, you can get it to group almost as tight as a modern pistol.

Hardcase · December 7, 2011, 10:48 AM

That seems like pretty reasonable accuracy - as long as you do your part, those guns will do theirs. Of course, like the rifleer said, your part includes finding the right charge and keeping it clean.

Wear your hearing protection!!!!! Even if your ears are as bad as mine, you've gotta preserve what's left!

Doc Hoy · December 7, 2011, 11:47 AM

Loud is true.

I'd use hearing protection with every shot.

Plenty of lubes out there better'n canola oil. I don't fry chicken in wax rings and crisco.

Fingers McGee · December 7, 2011, 11:57 AM

Good range report Newton; and, for criminy sakes, put your hearing protection on!!!!

A couple things that I've found that will make a Colt style revolver run trouble free.

Bore Butter on the arbor and lubed wad between powder and ball will ensure smooth, easy rotation of the cylinder for 65+ rounds.

JB weld in the hammer safety notch will keep the hammer from pulling the expended caps off the nipples.

FM

Hawg · December 7, 2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Bore Butter on the arbor and lubed wad between powder and ball will ensure smooth, easy rotation of the cylinder for 65+ rounds.

I never could get my 60 to run anywhere near that many using Bore Butter and my 51 won't either. Maybe y'all get better Bore Butter than we do.

Hardcase · December 7, 2011, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Maybe y'all get better Bore Butter than we do.

I Can't Believe It's Not (Bore) Butter?

Doc Hoy · December 7, 2011, 02:57 PM

...There is no such thing as better Bore Butter. Only bad and worse.

Fingers McGee · December 7, 2011, 05:27 PM

You must not be holding your mouth right or something. I generally don't touch my Colts, after the first round has gone down range at a match, until I get home after a 2 or 3 day match. Occasionally, I'll wipe the outside down; or maybe add some bore butter (when I'm shooting in Cheyenne cause of the high dry climate); but that's the exception rather than the rule.

Hawg · December 7, 2011, 05:34 PM

I dunno man. I get about 24 rounds off before it starts to bind with Bore Butter. May do better in cold weather with the 51 tho.

Noz · December 7, 2011, 05:36 PM

What fingers Said!

30 grains of Pyrodex P is a pretty stiff load.

Hawg · December 7, 2011, 06:17 PM

30 is a minimum for me.

Newton24b · December 7, 2011, 06:17 PM

it is technically a stiff load, but no fireball or anything in daylight.

from a big gun like this, it really did feel like shooting my 35 ounce 22 mag.

accuracy really did surprise me. had two balls under 1/2" center to center. thats mighty nice going by some photos on the various forums.

petrinal · December 11, 2011, 11:31 AM

i think that 8" is not accurate at 25 yards for a BP revolver. 2" is accuratte..

all the best

Hawg · December 11, 2011, 12:00 PM

I used to be able to keep six shots under three inches at 25 yards. Four is about my best now. But that is one handed, no prop.

Newton24b · December 11, 2011, 02:38 PM

juding for my eyes and my hands and the "learning curve' prevalent with open tops, from what ive read on here, i did rather well on my first outing with it. sure im not going to win a contest with it, but going by photos from cumpston and others on this sight when they do shooting reviews of a bullet or modification, its GOOD.

mec · December 20, 2011, 09:11 AM

If you are shooting more or less traditional, sharp pointed conicals, you can take a similarly shaped dremel grinder bit and cone the seating ram more or less to shape. This often helps with straight seating. The Army and 61 Navy with the blade front sights often hit very close to the correct elevation. The bullets cast from the decorator brass moulds are often undersize for the chambers and tend to throw frequent fliers from an otherwise, fairly good group. For the maximum in clean shooting, the Eastern Maine Shooters Supply treated wool wads sold by The Possibles Shop ( a few years back-havent checked lately) are good- stiffer and more effective than wonderwads. Otherwise, whether or not an over-ball grease is used, I manage to maintain accuracy by lightly swabbing the bore after each cylinder full. The over-ball grease tends to gunk up the revolver very quickly and I've done a lot of shooting without it. The only cross-ignitions Ive had have been with undersize or irregular projectiles though results may vary here. Some people will tell you that doing this is asking for chain fires but it hasn't happened in my shooting.

Noz · December 20, 2011, 11:38 AM

If you want to look for accuracy with the c&b guns you will have to back off of the max loads. 25-28 grs of FFg is a good solid load that will, in my guns, shoot very accurately. 30 grs is all over the place.

The only value in a 30 gr load is to make the spectators go OOOOOOOOO!

mec · December 20, 2011, 12:52 PM

One-hand slow fire from 25 yards. My colt army gets higher velocity with the same charge though the extreme spreads are about the same from several revolvers. This is not an unusual level of accuracy

Same thing, a 36 caliber 61 navy with chambers filled from a 28 grain measure though I don't remember whether it was black powder or pyrodex. This is an unusually good five shot spread with me doing the shooting.

I don't do much bench rest testing because I don't much care what the absolute accuracy is as long as they will shoot off-hand like the first picture..or even a bit larger group. I have gotten very good accuracy with near-rammer-bending loads of over 35 grains in the .44s though I see little use for loading that heavy. Ive also gotten fine results with 55 and 60 grains-volume equivalent of goex, swiss or pyrodex p in walkers.
all of the above using either commercial or cast round balls

December 7, 2011, 10:17 AM	#1
Newton24b Junior member Join Date: February 10, 2009 Posts: 974	gun accuracy went out shooting, pietta 1860 2011 proof mark. 30 grains pyrodex p hornady .454 roundball. range 25-30 yards. one cylinder only. 5 shots stayed in 8 inche circle. 1st sot was a flyer. shot to point of aim. no need to aim a foot low like ive read online is necessary. is this a freek of nature or just first time luck? did get a cap jammed under the hammer, it just mashed on the frame without falling inside. a nother spent cap jammed the cylinder up when it got caught on the nipple and recoil shield. the cap ejector channel doesnt do anything. canola oil isnt that good for arbor lubrication, but does a good job of making the whole gun smell like burned bbq chicken. at that range the bullets stopped in about 6 inches of newspaper, dry. biggest deformed bullet was almost the same diameter at the OD of the muzzle. not bad really, but none of them seem to have impacted head on. almost looks like the minute they hit the target, the imperfections left by the rammer made them flip sideways. the noise, god awful. 6 shots was all i could take, ears were horrid for a few hours. its like compressing 100 rounds of 22 mag into 6 shots.

December 7, 2011, 10:25 AM	#2
the rifleer Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2008 Location: Sunny California Posts: 1,281	If you find the right load and use a clean bore, you can get it to group almost as tight as a modern pistol. __________________ There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people.

December 7, 2011, 10:48 AM	#3
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,909	That seems like pretty reasonable accuracy - as long as you do your part, those guns will do theirs. Of course, like the rifleer said, your part includes finding the right charge and keeping it clean. Wear your hearing protection!!!!! Even if your ears are as bad as mine, you've gotta preserve what's left! __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

December 7, 2011, 11:47 AM	#4
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Newton Loud is true. I'd use hearing protection with every shot. Plenty of lubes out there better'n canola oil. I don't fry chicken in wax rings and crisco. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

December 7, 2011, 11:57 AM	#5
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Good range report Newton; and, for criminy sakes, put your hearing protection on!!!! A couple things that I've found that will make a Colt style revolver run trouble free. Bore Butter on the arbor and lubed wad between powder and ball will ensure smooth, easy rotation of the cylinder for 65+ rounds. JB weld in the hammer safety notch will keep the hammer from pulling the expended caps off the nipples. FM __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

December 7, 2011, 02:57 PM	#8
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Hawg.... ...There is no such thing as better Bore Butter. Only bad and worse. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

December 7, 2011, 05:27 PM	#9
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Hawg..... You must not be holding your mouth right or something. I generally don't touch my Colts, after the first round has gone down range at a match, until I get home after a 2 or 3 day match. Occasionally, I'll wipe the outside down; or maybe add some bore butter (when I'm shooting in Cheyenne cause of the high dry climate); but that's the exception rather than the rule. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

December 7, 2011, 05:34 PM	#10
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I dunno man. I get about 24 rounds off before it starts to bind with Bore Butter. May do better in cold weather with the 51 tho.

December 7, 2011, 05:36 PM	#11
Noz Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 643	What fingers Said! 30 grains of Pyrodex P is a pretty stiff load.

December 7, 2011, 06:17 PM	#12
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	30 is a minimum for me.

December 11, 2011, 11:31 AM	#14
petrinal Junior Member Join Date: December 11, 2011 Posts: 1	i think that 8" is not accurate at 25 yards for a BP revolver. 2" is accuratte.. all the best

December 11, 2011, 12:00 PM	#15
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I used to be able to keep six shots under three inches at 25 yards. Four is about my best now. But that is one handed, no prop.

December 11, 2011, 02:38 PM	#16
Newton24b Junior member Join Date: February 10, 2009 Posts: 974	juding for my eyes and my hands and the "learning curve' prevalent with open tops, from what ive read on here, i did rather well on my first outing with it. sure im not going to win a contest with it, but going by photos from cumpston and others on this sight when they do shooting reviews of a bullet or modification, its GOOD.

December 20, 2011, 09:11 AM	#17
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	If you are shooting more or less traditional, sharp pointed conicals, you can take a similarly shaped dremel grinder bit and cone the seating ram more or less to shape. This often helps with straight seating. The Army and 61 Navy with the blade front sights often hit very close to the correct elevation. The bullets cast from the decorator brass moulds are often undersize for the chambers and tend to throw frequent fliers from an otherwise, fairly good group. For the maximum in clean shooting, the Eastern Maine Shooters Supply treated wool wads sold by The Possibles Shop ( a few years back-havent checked lately) are good- stiffer and more effective than wonderwads. Otherwise, whether or not an over-ball grease is used, I manage to maintain accuracy by lightly swabbing the bore after each cylinder full. The over-ball grease tends to gunk up the revolver very quickly and I've done a lot of shooting without it. The only cross-ignitions Ive had have been with undersize or irregular projectiles though results may vary here. Some people will tell you that doing this is asking for chain fires but it hasn't happened in my shooting.

December 20, 2011, 11:38 AM	#18
Noz Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 643	If you want to look for accuracy with the c&b guns you will have to back off of the max loads. 25-28 grs of FFg is a good solid load that will, in my guns, shoot very accurately. 30 grs is all over the place. The only value in a 30 gr load is to make the spectators go OOOOOOOOO!

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