SW Model 19 with pitted barrel. Cause for concern?

Brian48 · April 25, 2016, 06:31 PM

I guess this is a semi-rant and I have to vent. This is a real bitter sweet moment for me.

I've been searching long and hard for a model 19/66 with 2.5 inch barrel for the last 6+ years or so. In that time, I've only found one m19 and one m66, neither of which where in decent shape and on top of that, extremely overpriced. A few weeks ago, I finally stumbled across one (Model 19-3 to be exact). It was still a bit pricey ($600), but looked to be in pretty decent shape, albeit VERY dirty. The shop was a place I frequented a lot and I completely trust the owner who's given me deals in the past. In this case, his staff had not had time to clean the gun. After looking it over, I went ahead and bought it before anyone else could jump on it.

When I got home, it took over two hours to clean it, no lie. After a good scrubbing, I got to see more details that was hidden before. Externally, the gun looks looks good. Most of the bluing is intact, no cylinder shake, no hint of flat cutting, excellent trigger, and tight lockup. There was a small amount of rust/pitting near one hole on the cylinder face, but this acceptable given the gun's age (circa 1975 manufacturer's date). The crane also had a different serial number from the butt of frame. I suspect the gun had been reworked at some point given the slickness of the trigger and the tightness of the lockup. It still had the pinned barrel and counter-sunk cylinder holes.

Anyway, all was good, but my heart sank was when I scrubbed the heck out of the barrel and found that it was pitted. The previous owner(s) never took care of the gun as well as they should have. It absolutely astounds me that the simple task of running a bore patch every now and then through the barrel would be too much work for some people. I got it as clean as I could, but I'm not sure there's any way to fix this other than replace the barrel and I suspect that's going to be a tall order given the state of spare parts for these old guns.

That said, the gun still seems to shoot OK and externally, it does look pretty good. The gun came with a very nice set of wood grips, but it didn't fit my hand very well so I put a cheap pair of Hogues on it for now.

I guess I'm undecided if I should just live with this or continue searching.

James K · April 25, 2016, 06:46 PM

First, the number on the butt is the serial number; the number on the crane and on the frame under the crane is an assembly number which would never match the serial number.

Second, unless the old eyes deceive me, that is not pitting, it is leading, probably the result of shooting unlubricated lead bullets. Get a Lewis Lead Remover and have at it on that barrel and I think it will clean up nicely.

Jim

THEWELSHM · April 25, 2016, 06:47 PM

Keep on shooting it and cleaning. It may be lead??

Thewelshm

James K · April 25, 2016, 07:05 PM

A quick and dirty lead and deposit remover can be made using some copper wool (at your supermarket for cleaning pots and pans). Soak a patch with Hoppes #9, and swab the barrel, then leave it set for a day. Then cut out a piece of the copper wool that will be a tight fit in the barrel and push it through with a cleaning rod. Do that several times, then check the barrel.

Jim

Brian48 · April 25, 2016, 07:20 PM

Good to know about the serial number on the crane.

That said, I've shot the heck out of it with jacketed ammo. 5 boxes of .38spl FMJ and 38 rds of various .357 ammo. I really think it's pitting at this point, but I can hope. Except for the old FBI load of a +P 158gr LHP which I intended to keep in it for SD/HD, I had not planned on shooting any lead through this gun given how much of a pain it is to clean afterwards.

Brian48 · April 25, 2016, 07:26 PM

Quote:

A quick and dirty lead and deposit remover can be made using some copper wool (at your supermarket for cleaning pots and pans). Soak a patch with Hoppes #9, and swab the barrel, then leave it set for a day. Then cut out a piece of the copper wool that will be a tight fit in the barrel and push it through with a cleaning rod. Do that several times, then check the barrel.

I'll give that a try and see if it helps. As I recall, when I was scrubbing out the barrel, I did noticed the oil became rust colored instead of the usual black. This is what alerted at the start.

Dufus · April 25, 2016, 07:53 PM

If it is lead, then do not shoot jacketed bullets thru it. At least until you know for sure. If it is that much lead, shooting jacketed bullets can bulge the barrel at the least and possibly burst it at the worst. I don't care what anyone says if they claim other wise. Please don't chance it.

It didn't really look like lead to me, BUT, you can get copper Chore Boy at Wally World either in the store of on line for just $4.00 for 2 pads. Ship to store is free if you have one close by. I have to ship to store as they don't stock it. Be ware of the copper coated steel pads. Read the package and it sill say one way or the other. Yo don't need an expensive Lewis tool.

Wrap some of the copper Chore Boy around a brass brush and scrub the crap out of it. Wet with some solvent if you wish.

Even if it ain't lead, it won't damage anything, but you will find out sfor sure one way or the other.

Good luck with an amazing little revolver.

Emerson Biggies · April 25, 2016, 10:07 PM

absolutely beautiful pictures! A professional job of photography!

Bill DeShivs · April 25, 2016, 10:11 PM

You can also stuff a piece of 0000 steel wool (it won't hurt the bore!) in the barrel, and scrub the lead out.

Driftwood Johnson · April 25, 2016, 10:31 PM

Howdy

Looks like leading to me.

Pitting looks like little round pits. Notice how the bore looks flakey.

I have bought many rifles and revolvers that are much older than that, guns from the Black Powder era. They have pitted bores and a pitted bore does not look like that.

You spent some decent money on that revolver. If I wuz you, I would get a good penetrating liquid like Kroil, and soak the barrel with it. Let the Kroil sit in there for a day or two. Then see how much lead you can remove.

P.S. Excellent photography. One of the best photos I have ever seen looking down a bore.

Guv · April 25, 2016, 10:33 PM

I almost think it has to be lead given the condition of the outside of the gun. Maybe it only ever got wiped down externally? If not lead I think it would almost have to have been caused by some corrosive ammunition, wouldn't it? Maybe some cheap imported 38spl? I have an old Lewis tool for 44 cal. and it used to work wonders on my Super Blackhawk. Was that excellent picture of the bore taken before you shot some jacketed bullets thru it?
Looks just like the one my cuz had issued him when he was in the Secret Service. His had the factory S&W round butt grips, very pricey these days.

Sgt127 · April 25, 2016, 11:44 PM

Since there was a little corrosion on the end of the cylinder, I'm guessing somebody actually found some corrosive ammo to shoot through it. Scrub it well, soak with oil and, carry on.

It's weird the rest of the gun is that pristine, yet the bore is rusted. Likely, other than bug you, it will have no effect on the gun or its accuracy.

Toney · April 26, 2016, 12:00 AM

Looks lIke pitting to me... I see a nice ruger Security Six like that.

CajunBass · April 26, 2016, 04:27 AM

Looks like leading to me also. It looks like it's on the steel, not IN the steel. Also I would think if someone took so little care of a gun to let the bore get that bad, the rest of the gun would show some sign of it. That little bit of external rust you spoke of could just be from sweat, or even a fingerprint.

I'd try the others suggestion for removing lead and see what happens.

If worse comes to worse, and it shoots OK, it would bug me, but I'd probably keep, at least until something better came along.

mannyCA · April 26, 2016, 04:37 AM

Make up some ed's red and scrub it up, let it soak for a few hours then go back at it with a brush/jag combo. Then shoot the heck out of it! If it is leading the eds red will remove it, if it's pitting the jacketed rounds will smooth it out after a couple thousand rounds. Fine looking job you did!

Thomas Traddles · April 26, 2016, 05:30 AM

When you use the copper chore boy to scrub out the barrel, cut some strands and wrap them around your bore brush, enough so that the brush and chore boy wraps are a tight fit in the barrel. The scrub the heck out of it. I'd run it though the barrel dry before soaking. The copper chore boy will cut through that lead like nobody's business. You will be able to look at the flakes and tell whether or not it is rust. It will not take much scrubbing, I can tell you, and you will have a very nice looking bore within about 5 minutes of a good cleaning.

walnut1704 · April 26, 2016, 05:49 AM

Looks pitted to me. If it shoots well, it doesn't matter and i wouldn't get bent about it.

FITASC · April 26, 2016, 05:57 AM

Quote:

A quick and dirty lead and deposit remover can be made using some copper wool (at your supermarket for cleaning pots and pans).

Take a small magnet with you. Most of the cheap versions are steel with a copper wash and not 100% copper.

The Lewis lead kit is inexpensive and does a good job.

Guv · April 26, 2016, 08:09 AM

The edges of the rifling lands sure look sharp. One more reason to think it may be lead.

Driftwood Johnson · April 26, 2016, 09:43 AM

Quote:

The edges of the rifling lands sure look sharp. One more reason to think it may be lead.

Agree. When a bore is pitted the edges of the rifling have usually been rounded over, or abraded to some extent. Those edges look nice and sharp.

**4V50 Gary** · April 26, 2016, 10:11 AM

Good group. I wouldn't worry about those pits.

**Mike Irwin** · April 26, 2016, 10:12 AM

Even if the barrel is pitted somewhat, chances are it will still shoot just fine.

Driftwood Johnson · April 26, 2016, 10:29 AM

Howdy Again

This is a pitted bore. This is the barrel of a Merwin Hulbert made in the 1880s. The pitting is the result of improper cleaning after being fired with Black Powder, many years ago. Notice how the pits resemble little pot holes in the steel.

And Mike is correct. I have bought many old guns with pitted bores like this. Generally speaking, as long as the rifling is still strong, as it is in this bore, they will still shoot just fine, as this one does. I have only encountered one old pitted bore that would not group well, in a Winchester Model 1890 gallery rifle that had probably been shot many thousands of times in it's lifetime in shooting galleries.

**Mike Irwin** · April 26, 2016, 11:54 AM

A friend of mine had an old Mauser K98 that I swear had more pits than lands. The rifling was pretty much gone from the first inch or so up from the chamber, and it was pretty weak over the first half of the barrel, and not particularly strong over the muzzle half.

He bought it for a song, intending to use the action to build something else.

We took it out to the range to play with it before he pulled the barrel, figuring it was going to be more Minute of Acre than Minute of Angle.

Boy were we surprised. It wasn't a tack driver, but it was a soild 3 to 4 inch group gun at 100 yards with military surplus ammunition.

He ended up turning it into a 7mm-08, and as far as I know still hunts with it.

Slamfire · April 26, 2016, 01:10 PM

If it is lead, use JB bore paste and get the stuff out of your barrel.

If it is pitting, so what. It is a snub nose revolver and I doubt anyone with a snub nose revolver bought one with the expectations of shooting a clean on the 50 yard NRA target.

Looks like it shoots just fine for a snubbie.

April 25, 2016, 06:31 PM	#1
Brian48 Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2001 Location: Boston, People's Republic of MA Posts: 1,616	SW Model 19 with pitted barrel. Cause for concern? I guess this is a semi-rant and I have to vent. This is a real bitter sweet moment for me. I've been searching long and hard for a model 19/66 with 2.5 inch barrel for the last 6+ years or so. In that time, I've only found one m19 and one m66, neither of which where in decent shape and on top of that, extremely overpriced. A few weeks ago, I finally stumbled across one (Model 19-3 to be exact). It was still a bit pricey ($600), but looked to be in pretty decent shape, albeit VERY dirty. The shop was a place I frequented a lot and I completely trust the owner who's given me deals in the past. In this case, his staff had not had time to clean the gun. After looking it over, I went ahead and bought it before anyone else could jump on it. When I got home, it took over two hours to clean it, no lie. After a good scrubbing, I got to see more details that was hidden before. Externally, the gun looks looks good. Most of the bluing is intact, no cylinder shake, no hint of flat cutting, excellent trigger, and tight lockup. There was a small amount of rust/pitting near one hole on the cylinder face, but this acceptable given the gun's age (circa 1975 manufacturer's date). The crane also had a different serial number from the butt of frame. I suspect the gun had been reworked at some point given the slickness of the trigger and the tightness of the lockup. It still had the pinned barrel and counter-sunk cylinder holes. Anyway, all was good, but my heart sank was when I scrubbed the heck out of the barrel and found that it was pitted. The previous owner(s) never took care of the gun as well as they should have. It absolutely astounds me that the simple task of running a bore patch every now and then through the barrel would be too much work for some people. I got it as clean as I could, but I'm not sure there's any way to fix this other than replace the barrel and I suspect that's going to be a tall order given the state of spare parts for these old guns. That said, the gun still seems to shoot OK and externally, it does look pretty good. The gun came with a very nice set of wood grips, but it didn't fit my hand very well so I put a cheap pair of Hogues on it for now. I guess I'm undecided if I should just live with this or continue searching. __________________ Proud to have served.

April 25, 2016, 07:20 PM	#5
Brian48 Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2001 Location: Boston, People's Republic of MA Posts: 1,616	Good to know about the serial number on the crane. That said, I've shot the heck out of it with jacketed ammo. 5 boxes of .38spl FMJ and 38 rds of various .357 ammo. I really think it's pitting at this point, but I can hope. Except for the old FBI load of a +P 158gr LHP which I intended to keep in it for SD/HD, I had not planned on shooting any lead through this gun given how much of a pain it is to clean afterwards. __________________ Proud to have served.

April 25, 2016, 10:07 PM	#8
Emerson Biggies Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2014 Posts: 163	absolutely beautiful pictures! A professional job of photography! __________________ Keep your guns clean.... the kids may put them in their mouths!

April 25, 2016, 10:33 PM	#11
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,126	I almost think it has to be lead given the condition of the outside of the gun. Maybe it only ever got wiped down externally? If not lead I think it would almost have to have been caused by some corrosive ammunition, wouldn't it? Maybe some cheap imported 38spl? I have an old Lewis tool for 44 cal. and it used to work wonders on my Super Blackhawk. Was that *excellent* picture of the bore taken before you shot some jacketed bullets thru it? Looks just like the one my cuz had issued him when he was in the Secret Service. His had the factory S&W round butt grips, very pricey these days. __________________ Walnut and Gloss Blue, mostly! Last edited by Guv; April 25, 2016 at 10:39 PM.

April 26, 2016, 04:27 AM	#14
CajunBass Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2005 Location: North Chesterfield, Virginia Posts: 4,767	Looks like leading to me also. It looks like it's on the steel, not IN the steel. Also I would think if someone took so little care of a gun to let the bore get that bad, the rest of the gun would show some sign of it. That little bit of external rust you spoke of could just be from sweat, or even a fingerprint. I'd try the others suggestion for removing lead and see what happens. If worse comes to worse, and it shoots OK, it would bug me, but I'd probably keep, at least until something better came along. __________________ For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 (NKJV)

April 25, 2016, 06:46 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	First, the number on the butt is the serial number; the number on the crane and on the frame under the crane is an assembly number which would never match the serial number. Second, unless the old eyes deceive me, that is not pitting, it is leading, probably the result of shooting unlubricated lead bullets. Get a Lewis Lead Remover and have at it on that barrel and I think it will clean up nicely. Jim

April 25, 2016, 06:47 PM	#3
THEWELSHM Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2015 Location: Brandon Fl Posts: 236	Keep on shooting it and cleaning. It may be lead?? Thewelshm

April 25, 2016, 07:05 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	A quick and dirty lead and deposit remover can be made using some copper wool (at your supermarket for cleaning pots and pans). Soak a patch with Hoppes #9, and swab the barrel, then leave it set for a day. Then cut out a piece of the copper wool that will be a tight fit in the barrel and push it through with a cleaning rod. Do that several times, then check the barrel. Jim

April 25, 2016, 07:53 PM	#7
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	If it is lead, then do not shoot jacketed bullets thru it. At least until you know for sure. If it is that much lead, shooting jacketed bullets can bulge the barrel at the least and possibly burst it at the worst. I don't care what anyone says if they claim other wise. Please don't chance it. It didn't really look like lead to me, BUT, you can get copper Chore Boy at Wally World either in the store of on line for just $4.00 for 2 pads. Ship to store is free if you have one close by. I have to ship to store as they don't stock it. Be ware of the copper coated steel pads. Read the package and it sill say one way or the other. Yo don't need an expensive Lewis tool. Wrap some of the copper Chore Boy around a brass brush and scrub the crap out of it. Wet with some solvent if you wish. Even if it ain't lead, it won't damage anything, but you will find out sfor sure one way or the other. Good luck with an amazing little revolver.

April 25, 2016, 10:11 PM	#9
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	You can also stuff a piece of 0000 steel wool (it won't hurt the bore!) in the barrel, and scrub the lead out. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

April 25, 2016, 10:31 PM	#10
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy Looks like leading to me. Pitting looks like little round pits. Notice how the bore looks flakey. I have bought many rifles and revolvers that are much older than that, guns from the Black Powder era. They have pitted bores and a pitted bore does not look like that. You spent some decent money on that revolver. If I wuz you, I would get a good penetrating liquid like Kroil, and soak the barrel with it. Let the Kroil sit in there for a day or two. Then see how much lead you can remove. P.S. Excellent photography. One of the best photos I have ever seen looking down a bore.

April 25, 2016, 11:44 PM	#12
Sgt127 Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2002 Posts: 1,053	Since there was a little corrosion on the end of the cylinder, I'm guessing somebody actually found some corrosive ammo to shoot through it. Scrub it well, soak with oil and, carry on. It's weird the rest of the gun is that pristine, yet the bore is rusted. Likely, other than bug you, it will have no effect on the gun or its accuracy.

April 26, 2016, 12:00 AM	#13
Toney Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2005 Location: Stillwater Oklahoma Posts: 790	Looks lIke pitting to me... I see a nice ruger Security Six like that.

April 26, 2016, 04:37 AM	#15
mannyCA Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2009 Location: the world Posts: 182	Make up some ed's red and scrub it up, let it soak for a few hours then go back at it with a brush/jag combo. Then shoot the heck out of it! If it is leading the eds red will remove it, if it's pitting the jacketed rounds will smooth it out after a couple thousand rounds. Fine looking job you did! __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/mannyCA Shooting ▪Handloading▪Repair▪Maintenance▪Self-Reliance Gun Culture

April 26, 2016, 05:30 AM	#16
Thomas Traddles Junior Member Join Date: January 10, 2015 Posts: 8	When you use the copper chore boy to scrub out the barrel, cut some strands and wrap them around your bore brush, enough so that the brush and chore boy wraps are a tight fit in the barrel. The scrub the heck out of it. I'd run it though the barrel dry before soaking. The copper chore boy will cut through that lead like nobody's business. You will be able to look at the flakes and tell whether or not it is rust. It will not take much scrubbing, I can tell you, and you will have a very nice looking bore within about 5 minutes of a good cleaning.

April 26, 2016, 05:49 AM	#17
walnut1704 Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2009 Posts: 156	Looks pitted to me. If it shoots well, it doesn't matter and i wouldn't get bent about it.

April 26, 2016, 08:09 AM	#19
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,126	The edges of the rifling lands sure look sharp. One more reason to think it may be lead. __________________ Walnut and Gloss Blue, mostly!

April 26, 2016, 10:11 AM	#21
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	Good group. I wouldn't worry about those pits. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

April 26, 2016, 10:12 AM	#22
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	Even if the barrel is pitted somewhat, chances are it will still shoot just fine. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 26, 2016, 10:29 AM	#23
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy Again This is a pitted bore. This is the barrel of a Merwin Hulbert made in the 1880s. The pitting is the result of improper cleaning after being fired with Black Powder, many years ago. Notice how the pits resemble little pot holes in the steel. And Mike is correct. I have bought many old guns with pitted bores like this. Generally speaking, as long as the rifling is still strong, as it is in this bore, they will still shoot just fine, as this one does. I have only encountered one old pitted bore that would not group well, in a Winchester Model 1890 gallery rifle that had probably been shot many thousands of times in it's lifetime in shooting galleries.

April 26, 2016, 11:54 AM	#24
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	A friend of mine had an old Mauser K98 that I swear had more pits than lands. The rifling was pretty much gone from the first inch or so up from the chamber, and it was pretty weak over the first half of the barrel, and not particularly strong over the muzzle half. He bought it for a song, intending to use the action to build something else. We took it out to the range to play with it before he pulled the barrel, figuring it was going to be more Minute of Acre than Minute of Angle. Boy were we surprised. It wasn't a tack driver, but it was a soild 3 to 4 inch group gun at 100 yards with military surplus ammunition. He ended up turning it into a 7mm-08, and as far as I know still hunts with it. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 26, 2016, 01:10 PM	#25
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	If it is lead, use JB bore paste and get the stuff out of your barrel. If it is pitting, so what. It is a snub nose revolver and I doubt anyone with a snub nose revolver bought one with the expectations of shooting a clean on the 50 yard NRA target. Looks like it shoots just fine for a snubbie. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.