Military concealed carry in uniform?

tahunua001 · October 8, 2011, 02:31 PM

hello all,
I haven't been able to find this in navy regs anywhere but I was wondering if anyone knew if active duty or drilling reserves are allowed to carry while in uniform. I know you're not allowed to have a gun on base unless it's being transported to and from the armory but what about at recruiting stations, MEPS offices, off base military hospitals and other areas where you're supposed to be in uniform? so far the only regs I'm seeing regard cell phones(not exactly helpful). as long as you are not printing and it does not detract from professional appearance I would think that it would be fine but I fingered I'd ask the masses first.

this is more referring to transiting to and from the recruiting station IE gas stops, grocery stores, insurance offices, fast food, etc. my odds of getting shot up in the recruiting offices are pretty slim compared to being in a gas station during a stickup. the recruiters are in a strip mall so the parking lot is not federal property as it is shared by all businesses in the building so as long as I disarmed before going in it would still be legal from a federal and state stand point, I just wanted to know if it was within uniform regs

ming · October 8, 2011, 03:47 PM

I'd doubt that you can carry while in uniform unless you are authorized to do so. It's been a relatively long time since I was either active or reserve, but it most definitely was not allowed except for those whose duty required it, and then it was just on base while performing those duties.

BGutzman · October 8, 2011, 04:01 PM

I retired in 2007 and no Im not a jag lawyer but I would STRONGLY recommend against CCW in uniform without some sort of special Chain of Command and JAG approved process that isnt likely to happen.

Much of the military is anything but gun friendly.... and the odds of U.C.M.J. for such a thing would seem to be very, very high...

I would start by talking to legal assistance..

FrankenMauser · October 8, 2011, 04:22 PM

If you can't find it for yourself, you'll have to go up your Chain of Command.

The answer is almost guaranteed to be "no way". Even if you can justify the need, the military can't justify the personal weapon. ...And they aren't going to let you carry an issued weapon concealed. (I have seen exceptions, where CC was allowed off-base {with written permission}, only while in transit from the base to the member's home. But, they were very rare.)

I separated in 2008.

Chaz88 · October 8, 2011, 04:38 PM

I looked for the same information in Navy regs at one time and also never found an answer. I do not "think" it would be specifically against any regulation if done off base in a uniform that is authorized for off base use and it did not detract from a professional appearance (no printing etc)

The problem would arise if an incident occurred. Anytime something happens off base with a uniformed, or even out of uniform, Sailor it is blown way out of proportion by the local media. Then the Navy might use the catch 22 parts of the UCMJ to overreact for PR reasons. (read the UCMJ carefully, it is set up with provisions that allow them to make up things to charge you with that they did not think of at the time it was written)

At one time my duties required me to go to the homes of people that worked for me and check on domestic situations. A few of those times I regarded the potential threat as great enough that it was worth the risk of potentially breaking some obscure regulation, and I carried. Those were the only times I carried my personal weapon in uniform, just did not think it was worth the potential problems the rest of the time.

By the way I retired in 2008 so there could be new regulations in place.

kraigwy · October 8, 2011, 06:14 PM

I don' t know about the Navy or NR, but I do know a bit about the army/ARNG.

I was in the Alaska NG while I was with the Anchorage Police department. I carried everywhere, On and Off Post in uniform. On Ft Richardson, EAFB, Wainwright, Greeley, etc.

There was no problem, but as far as Anchoorage/Ft Richardson/EAFB... we had joint juristriction, so that may have had something to do with it, also Alaska had a state law saying we (LEO) were suppose to carry off duty.

That's just one state. However, when my son graduated from basic at Ft Knox I got a letter from the Post Commander regarding rules/regs when family members attending graduation. The letter said, unless you're LE (regardless where) you weren't allowed to carry on base. I didn't go but it would have been legal to carry on Ft Knox if I did.

All post are different, the post commander is the one who sets the rules for his post.

hermannr · October 9, 2011, 12:57 AM

This is one place you wll never find an answer that fits all because it is your command's perogative.

Ask your CO.

youngunz4life · October 9, 2011, 03:11 AM

Quote:

That's just one state. However, when my son graduated from basic at Ft Knox I got a letter from the Post Commander regarding rules/regs when family members attending graduation. The letter said, unless you're LE (regardless where) you weren't allowed to carry on base. I didn't go but it would have been legal to carry on Ft Knox if I did.

That is very interesting, as I thought any firearm on base(besides the regular military reasons) was a Definate, "No-go in a No-go situation"...thank drill sgt mattingly from fort relaxin jackson for that one...I still remember hating having to listen to that.

I guess the letter in your pocket while crossing on to the base(if it even came up) would've been enough. I wouldn't have tried it without remembering to bring the letter though.

Uncle Buck · October 9, 2011, 08:38 AM

It has been awhile since I asked about this issue when I was on active duty.

I was in the Air Force Security Police (Now the Security Forces) and I remember I had to get special permission from my commander and ensure I had the proper AF Card to authorize me to carry concealed.

There was a lot of mumbo jumbo to go along with the authorization and when we got a new commander he revoked the permission.

But if I remember correctly, you had to be an NCO, could not live in the barracks (The AF actually has dormitories, "A Better Way of Life" and all that stuff), and it seems as if we were restricted to only certain calibers.

Definitely run this by the JAG. When you are in uniform, you are a representative of the US Armed Forces.

BPowderkeg · October 9, 2011, 09:36 AM

Quote:

I know you're not allowed to have a gun on base unless it's being transported to and from the armory

the above is a bit confusing, what about those bases that sell guns at the base exchange ? and the buyer is taking it to his/her off base home ?

tahunua001 · October 9, 2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

That is very interesting, as I thought any firearm on base(besides the regular military reasons) was a Definate, "No-go in a No-go situation"...thank drill sgt mattingly from fort relaxin jackson for that one...I still remember hating having to listen to that.

different bases will have different policies but I know that NOB Norfolk specifically says that if you live in base housing(married E-5 & up only) you are allowed to have guns but they must be stored and transported in a lockbox. I know that you can always go more strict than the parent command policy but you can NEVER go more lax so that is at least the DoD directive for base firearms. LEOs are allowed to carry both concealed and open, in both uniform and plain clothes since just about be only reason LEOs go to bases is to arrest some hoodlum that went out in town and got an arrest warrant issued.

Chaz88 · October 9, 2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

the above is a bit confusing, what about those bases that sell guns at the base exchange ? and the buyer is taking it to his/her off base home ?

What bases sell guns at the base exchange? Never encountered one. If you can point me to one it might be worth the trip to save on the enormous tax that is normally tacked on to the price.

The on base gun policy was up to the base commander on all the bases I was ever on. Normally this allowed people that lived in base housing to keep their guns in housing and transport them directly off base and directly back to housing. People that lived in the barracks had to use the armory. People that lived off base could not transport on base unless it was a base that had hunting.

tahunua001 · October 9, 2011, 02:29 PM

Quote:

What bases sell guns at the base exchange? Never encountered one. If you can point me to one it might be worth the trip to save on the enormous tax that is normally tacked on to the price.

the camp allen MCX sells guns but it's located outside of the base so I dont think that one qualifies, all of the other exchanges in hampton roads, pensacola and great lakes I've been to do not sell guns to my knowledge. I was surprised when I saw the MCX had a gun counter, they are a little higher priced but it's still cheaper than paying tax or paying an FFL transfer fee.

Chaz88 · October 9, 2011, 02:39 PM

Quote:

the camp allen MCX sells guns

Wish I had known that. I used to spend a lot of time at the Norfolk Navy base. Never made it to Camp Allen.

tahunua001 · October 9, 2011, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Wish I had known that. I used to spend a lot of time at the Norfolk Navy base. Never made it to Camp Allen.

the MCX is only like a 5 minute drive from gate 5 tucked between the PPV housing and the nato base

Tennessee Gentleman · October 9, 2011, 03:06 PM

A Looooong time ago we used to have an extra duty all Lieutenants had to do called pay officer/Class A agent.

We were required to be armed and I carried a M1911A1 that rattled like crazy if you shook it. I had one mag of .45 and the SOP was carry with mag in but none in the chamber.

This was carried openly on an issue holster (leather with a US on it) and web belt and we left post with it too (in Germany) when we picked up the cash (locked in an ammo can with a Series 200 lock) at the Finance Kaserne.

You signed for the weapon AND the ammo and you had better return both intact. I had a driver who had an M-16 with one mag in the weapon (none in the chamber) and we rode in a M151A1 Jeep!

The jeeps by the way were cut up and sold for scrape to civilains when their service life was done as they were too dangerous to drive on the streets BUT WE drove them with no problem for Uncle Sugar there!

Also, when in Germany I had to carry the same kit as the Installation Duty Officer and then later in the evening I had to go to the stockade and count the prisoners! Hah to check the weapon at the guard house though.

Don't know what they do now.

Uncle Buck · October 9, 2011, 08:41 PM

Whiteman AFB, MO (Knob Noster area) has a gun counter that sells rifles, shotguns and pistols, as well as ammo. They will even special order for you.

Chaz88 · October 9, 2011, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Whiteman AFB, MO

That is about 200 miles south of me and an adjacent state. Might be worth checking out. Wander, being a federal installation and me being retired, if the state laws still apply for pistols?

cow0man · October 9, 2011, 08:56 PM

Chaz,
Va state laws apply to MCX at Quantico, therefore it would be a safe assumption that Mo laws will apply at Whiteman as well.

heyjoe · October 9, 2011, 09:07 PM

Fort Benning georgia sells guns at the base exchange.

armsmaster270 · October 9, 2011, 10:49 PM

Beal AFB has a range you can take your private weapons to and shoot. It is for their gun club.

BPowderkeg · October 10, 2011, 09:54 AM

Chaz88, the one near me, Davis-Monthan AFB, Tucson AZ. they have a great selection of handguns, AR's, bolts and shotguns.

ltc444 · October 12, 2011, 09:10 AM

Concealed carry in uniform, in the Army, is at the decression of the Commander.

Chuckusaret · October 12, 2011, 12:36 PM

There is a bill pending to protect the 2nd Amendment rights of military personnel. I am retired military and we were not allowed to carry off duty while in uniform.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s3388/show

armsmaster270 · October 12, 2011, 03:23 PM

During Desert Storm the CA National Guard A.G.'s office allowed the command staff to carry their issue M-9's or they would issue a J frame to them for CC Carry They also issued 357 L frames to their in house reaction force. All were given a card reciting the penal code section authorizing the issuance and carrying of the weapons as well as the phone # of the Duty Officer.

October 8, 2011, 02:31 PM	#1
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	Military concealed carry in uniform? hello all, I haven't been able to find this in navy regs anywhere but I was wondering if anyone knew if active duty or drilling reserves are allowed to carry while in uniform. I know you're not allowed to have a gun on base unless it's being transported to and from the armory but what about at recruiting stations, MEPS offices, off base military hospitals and other areas where you're supposed to be in uniform? so far the only regs I'm seeing regard cell phones(not exactly helpful). as long as you are not printing and it does not detract from professional appearance I would think that it would be fine but I fingered I'd ask the masses first. this is more referring to transiting to and from the recruiting station IE gas stops, grocery stores, insurance offices, fast food, etc. my odds of getting shot up in the recruiting offices are pretty slim compared to being in a gas station during a stickup. the recruiters are in a strip mall so the parking lot is not federal property as it is shared by all businesses in the building so as long as I disarmed before going in it would still be legal from a federal and state stand point, I just wanted to know if it was within uniform regs __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

October 8, 2011, 04:01 PM	#3
BGutzman Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2009 Location: Frozen Tundra Posts: 2,414	I retired in 2007 and no Im not a jag lawyer but I would STRONGLY recommend against CCW in uniform without some sort of special Chain of Command and JAG approved process that isnt likely to happen. Much of the military is anything but gun friendly.... and the odds of U.C.M.J. for such a thing would seem to be very, very high... I would start by talking to legal assistance.. __________________ Molon Labe

October 8, 2011, 04:22 PM	#4
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	If you can't find it for yourself, you'll have to go up your Chain of Command. The answer is almost guaranteed to be "no way". Even if you can justify the need, the military can't justify the personal weapon. ...And they aren't going to let you carry an issued weapon concealed. (I have seen exceptions, where CC was allowed off-base {with written permission}, only while in transit from the base to the member's home. But, they were very rare.) I separated in 2008. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

October 8, 2011, 04:38 PM	#5
Chaz88 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2010 Posts: 1,243	I looked for the same information in Navy regs at one time and also never found an answer. I do not "think" it would be specifically against any regulation if done off base in a uniform that is authorized for off base use and it did not detract from a professional appearance (no printing etc) The problem would arise if an incident occurred. Anytime something happens off base with a uniformed, or even out of uniform, Sailor it is blown way out of proportion by the local media. Then the Navy might use the catch 22 parts of the UCMJ to overreact for PR reasons. (read the UCMJ carefully, it is set up with provisions that allow them to make up things to charge you with that they did not think of at the time it was written) At one time my duties required me to go to the homes of people that worked for me and check on domestic situations. A few of those times I regarded the potential threat as great enough that it was worth the risk of potentially breaking some obscure regulation, and I carried. Those were the only times I carried my personal weapon in uniform, just did not think it was worth the potential problems the rest of the time. By the way I retired in 2008 so there could be new regulations in place. __________________ Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time. No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it. Last edited by Chaz88; October 8, 2011 at 11:08 PM.

October 8, 2011, 06:14 PM	#6
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	I don' t know about the Navy or NR, but I do know a bit about the army/ARNG. I was in the Alaska NG while I was with the Anchorage Police department. I carried everywhere, On and Off Post in uniform. On Ft Richardson, EAFB, Wainwright, Greeley, etc. There was no problem, but as far as Anchoorage/Ft Richardson/EAFB... we had joint juristriction, so that may have had something to do with it, also Alaska had a state law saying we (LEO) were suppose to carry off duty. That's just one state. However, when my son graduated from basic at Ft Knox I got a letter from the Post Commander regarding rules/regs when family members attending graduation. The letter said, unless you're LE (regardless where) you weren't allowed to carry on base. I didn't go but it would have been legal to carry on Ft Knox if I did. All post are different, the post commander is the one who sets the rules for his post. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

October 8, 2011, 03:47 PM	#2
ming Member Join Date: July 26, 2009 Posts: 65	I'd doubt that you can carry while in uniform unless you are authorized to do so. It's been a relatively long time since I was either active or reserve, but it most definitely was not allowed except for those whose duty required it, and then it was just on base while performing those duties.

October 9, 2011, 12:57 AM	#7
hermannr Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2011 Posts: 730	This is one place you wll never find an answer that fits all because it is your command's perogative. Ask your CO.

October 9, 2011, 08:38 AM	#9
Uncle Buck Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 2,592	It has been awhile since I asked about this issue when I was on active duty. I was in the Air Force Security Police (Now the Security Forces) and I remember I had to get special permission from my commander and ensure I had the proper AF Card to authorize me to carry concealed. There was a lot of mumbo jumbo to go along with the authorization and when we got a new commander he revoked the permission. But if I remember correctly, you had to be an NCO, could not live in the barracks (The AF actually has dormitories, "A Better Way of Life" and all that stuff), and it seems as if we were restricted to only certain calibers. Definitely run this by the JAG. When you are in uniform, you are a representative of the US Armed Forces. __________________ Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.

October 9, 2011, 03:06 PM	#16
Tennessee Gentleman Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,775	A Looooong time ago we used to have an extra duty all Lieutenants had to do called pay officer/Class A agent. We were required to be armed and I carried a M1911A1 that rattled like crazy if you shook it. I had one mag of .45 and the SOP was carry with mag in but none in the chamber. This was carried openly on an issue holster (leather with a US on it) and web belt and we left post with it too (in Germany) when we picked up the cash (locked in an ammo can with a Series 200 lock) at the Finance Kaserne. You signed for the weapon AND the ammo and you had better return both intact. I had a driver who had an M-16 with one mag in the weapon (none in the chamber) and we rode in a M151A1 Jeep! The jeeps by the way were cut up and sold for scrape to civilains when their service life was done as they were too dangerous to drive on the streets BUT WE drove them with no problem for Uncle Sugar there! Also, when in Germany I had to carry the same kit as the Installation Duty Officer and then later in the evening I had to go to the stockade and count the prisoners! Hah to check the weapon at the guard house though. Don't know what they do now. __________________ "God and the Soldier we adore, in time of trouble but not before. When the danger's past and the wrong been righted, God is forgotten and the Soldier slighted." Anonymous Soldier.

October 9, 2011, 08:41 PM	#17
Uncle Buck Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 2,592	Whiteman AFB, MO (Knob Noster area) has a gun counter that sells rifles, shotguns and pistols, as well as ammo. They will even special order for you. __________________ Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.

October 9, 2011, 08:56 PM	#19
cow0man Member Join Date: August 9, 2011 Posts: 16	Chaz, Va state laws apply to MCX at Quantico, therefore it would be a safe assumption that Mo laws will apply at Whiteman as well.

October 9, 2011, 09:07 PM	#20
heyjoe Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Posts: 438	Fort Benning georgia sells guns at the base exchange.

October 9, 2011, 10:49 PM	#21
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	Beal AFB has a range you can take your private weapons to and shoot. It is for their gun club. __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.

October 10, 2011, 09:54 AM	#22
BPowderkeg Junior member Join Date: September 27, 2011 Posts: 382	Chaz88, the one near me, Davis-Monthan AFB, Tucson AZ. they have a great selection of handguns, AR's, bolts and shotguns.

October 12, 2011, 09:10 AM	#23
ltc444 Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2011 Location: Vernon AZ Posts: 1,195	Concealed carry in uniform, in the Army, is at the decression of the Commander.

October 12, 2011, 12:36 PM	#24
Chuckusaret Junior member Join Date: December 5, 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 708	There is a bill pending to protect the 2nd Amendment rights of military personnel. I am retired military and we were not allowed to carry off duty while in uniform. http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s3388/show

October 12, 2011, 03:23 PM	#25
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	During Desert Storm the CA National Guard A.G.'s office allowed the command staff to carry their issue M-9's or they would issue a J frame to them for CC Carry They also issued 357 L frames to their in house reaction force. All were given a card reciting the penal code section authorizing the issuance and carrying of the weapons as well as the phone # of the Duty Officer. __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.