December 16, 2012, 02:47 AM | #2701 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 8,283
|
As I have commented before,here:I can only put together one reason why this Fast and Furious operation happened.
It was intended to create international outrage over violence in Mexico via guns traveling through US gun dealers. That international outrage would be used to drive through gun legislation. If there is another line of thought that connects the dots I'd like to read it. It would also take a "willful suspension of disbelief" to accept the White House and Attorney General had no knowledge. So,now I ask,what sort of events were the 2000 AK-47's supposed to be connected to in order to generate this outrage? I do not think it was shooting road signs. No.The guns walking into Mexico were to generate outrage over tragic,senseless acts of slaughter. That happens in Mexico.The drug cartels practice terrorism.I have seen pictures of rows of decapitated heads on a dance floor,bodies dissolving in barrels of lye. Its not just criminal versus criminal.The decent,law abiding citizen is as likely to be the victim. I work in an elementary school.My "every day" is about the kids,the teachers,the parents,the playground. My grandaughter started Kindergarten this year. The Mexican people in Mexico ,where our government walked the AK-47s,the Mexican people in Mexico,they love their children,too.And their mothers,and fathers,sisters,brothers.They bleed the same,they cry the same. I hope you will think deeply about what Fast and Furious really means. And the incredible hypocrisy. Where does the political theatre stop? |
December 16, 2012, 11:43 PM | #2702 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,847
|
HiBC asks at the close of his post:
where does the political theatre stop Given Friday's shooting, it likely does not stop, at least not during this administration, possibly not in any administration, but most likely not during this one. |
December 20, 2012, 01:05 AM | #2703 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,059
|
You may remember George Gillett. He was the #2 guy for the Phoenix field division during Fast & Furious, and he was castigated by Issa for "failure to ensure proper supervision."
Back around Thanksgiving, Mexican beauty queen Maria Susana Flores Gamez and five others were killed in Sinaola. Guns from Fast & Furious were found at the scene. Interestingly enough, one of those was an FN FiveSeven pistol, which was traced directly back to Mr. Gillett. Now, by "directly," I mean directly. Quote:
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
|
December 20, 2012, 01:33 AM | #2704 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 779
|
I am severely unsurprised.
__________________
I told the new me, "Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'" But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back." Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor |
December 20, 2012, 03:06 AM | #2705 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 11, 1999
Location: Longmont, CO, USA
Posts: 4,530
|
FoxNews has a video report on this at their website. This is simply more of the "Good for me but not for thee" attitude of government bureaucrats.
VIDEO LINK
__________________
Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
December 20, 2012, 02:01 PM | #2706 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 3,112
|
Yep, Gillette says he sold that gun on the web.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_16...ene-in-mexico/ Sharyl Attkisson has been on top of the Fast and Furious scandal since the story broke. |
December 20, 2012, 09:26 PM | #2707 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,847
|
Tom Servo/Jim Peel:
It might be described as "do as we say, not as we do". As to the sale of this PISTOL, assuming that a background check was required, was one actually run. In addition, might Gillett have been "doing business without a license", or might this be considered as something along the lines of that often mentioned "gun show loophole"? |
December 20, 2012, 11:49 PM | #2708 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,720
|
I prefer to think he was doing straw purchases, knowingly selling guns to Mexican drug lords. It's plausible, and it fits my prejudices.
__________________
"Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth |
January 17, 2013, 09:46 PM | #2709 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: September 7, 2008
Posts: 550
|
I'm glad to see this show up, hopefully it'll redirect some heat to where it belongs if the media will cover it. Holder's already been given a pass, but maybe it'll still have some positive (for us) effect on "lawmakers".
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
In my hour of darkness In my time of need Oh Lord grant me vision Oh Lord grant me speed - Gram Parsons |
||
January 17, 2013, 09:57 PM | #2710 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 9,142
|
I saw where the Terry family attorney expressed some skepticism about the claim because this guy's name had not popped up earlier. I also understand there are those who sometimes confess to crimes they didn't commit. I'm taking a wait and see attitude on this. Nevertheless, it underscores how much we still don't know about Fast and Furious.
|
January 18, 2013, 12:25 AM | #2711 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 779
|
This sounds like a government cover up if ive ever heard one
__________________
I told the new me, "Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'" But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back." Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor |
January 18, 2013, 08:26 AM | #2712 |
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,059
|
Judicial Watch is pushing a FOIA lawsuit to have the documents covered by Executive Privilege to be released.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
January 18, 2013, 09:56 AM | #2713 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 4, 2009
Location: Frozen Tundra
Posts: 2,414
|
Seriously to fight disclosure this hard on a failed and cancelled operation can have no other effect than to look highly dubious... This cannot instill confidence in any citizen.
__________________
Molon Labe |
January 18, 2013, 10:00 AM | #2714 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 3,112
|
[QUOTE]Seriously to fight disclosure this hard on a failed and cancelled operation can have no other effect than to look highly dubious... This cannot instill confidence in any citizen. [/QUOTE
+1. I wish Issa and the congress would put Holders feet to the fire until his socks smoke. There is something in those documents the administration does not want the public to know. |
January 18, 2013, 11:41 AM | #2715 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
|
I am still amazed by the treatment of F&F in comparison with the treatment of Watergate.
When I was a kid, I looked up to journalists. That rarely happens, anymore. |
January 18, 2013, 05:23 PM | #2716 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 301
|
Or the treatment if F&F compared to Manti Teo's girlfriend. I think we know every meal this kid at over the last year and they were able to obtain it almost overnight.
|
January 18, 2013, 05:30 PM | #2717 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 9,142
|
I see that the government has asked for an indefinite stay of the suit by Judicial Watch. The grounds?
Quote:
So, because the House of Representatives also believes certain F&F documents should be released to them, that's a reason to stop the Freedom of Information lawsuit? Somebody help me understand the logic of that. |
|
January 19, 2013, 12:23 PM | #2718 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,847
|
If this is seriously off-point, forgive me, but re what I understand to be Obama's nomination as "Permanent Director of ATF", the gentleman who has been äcting", is this another of the usual dyed in the wool anti gun/anti gun rights types, or might this guy be more legitimate.
|
January 19, 2013, 06:37 PM | #2719 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 4, 2009
Location: Frozen Tundra
Posts: 2,414
|
Quote:
__________________
Molon Labe |
|
January 29, 2013, 02:43 PM | #2720 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,059
|
It looks like the House and DOJ are still negotiating to avoid a lawsuit.
Quote:
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe Last edited by Tom Servo; January 29, 2013 at 02:51 PM. |
|
February 1, 2013, 02:48 AM | #2721 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 11, 1999
Location: Longmont, CO, USA
Posts: 4,530
|
This is new. It seems the BATFE is as incompetent as ever.
SOURCE Quote:
__________________
Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
|
February 2, 2013, 11:58 AM | #2722 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,847
|
Tom Servo wrote:
You may remember George Gillett. He was the #2 guy for the Phoenix field division during Fast & Furious, and he was castigated by Issa for "failure to ensure proper supervision." Back around Thanksgiving, Mexican beauty queen Maria Susana Flores Gamez and five others were killed in Sinaola. Guns from Fast & Furious were found at the scene. Interestingly enough, one of those was an FN FiveSeven pistol, which was traced directly back to Mr. Gillett. Now, by "directly," I mean directly. Quote: Gillett purchased the weapon at Legendary Arms, a Phoenix gun store. On the federal form 4473 used to buy the gun, Gillett used the ATF office address, 201 East Washington, and said "Apt 940." On subsequent purchase, Gillett used a commercial address, that of a strip mall. Yep, he lied on the form. What's more, he claims he later sold the gun privately to someone over the internet. Naturally, neither Gillett or the ATF has any comment on the matter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What have we here, another unprosecuted felony, courtesy of Obama et al, the AG is his appointee, when last I looked. Do as we say, not as we do, with the proverbial vengeance. Oh by the way, re this fiasco, where are the guardians of the public virtue, the vaunted members of The Fourth Estate, here known as "Media"and or the "free press", which by the way, is neither without cost or "free", meaning absent all manner of restrictions/special pleadings. |
February 2, 2013, 12:01 PM | #2723 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,847
|
Re Jimpeel's 2719, it does seem to go on and on, doesn't it? Who might it be that will remain standing, when and if The Music Stops? One wonders.
|
March 17, 2013, 08:48 AM | #2724 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 18, 2012
Posts: 389
|
House panel tells judge settlement w/DOJ not possible
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...tlement-grave/
I believe the last time they were before U.S. District Judge Amy Berman she was ready to have a hearing the next week. I hope a hearing can be scheduled in the next 15 days. It looks like the end game for the administration now is to drag this out until his third term. (sorry - couldn't help that...) |
March 17, 2013, 10:52 AM | #2725 |
Member
Join Date: January 7, 2013
Posts: 74
|
I really really hope the truth can be dug out of this mess and all accountable get their day in court followed with years in federal prison.
|
Tags |
atf , fast and furious |
|
|