AR issue

Swampman1 · October 5, 2013, 04:57 PM

OK guys, after shooting over 400 reloads with my Colt AR-15, I have a bit of a problem. Went to the shooting range today, and after firing off about 50 rounds, I pull the trigger and...nothing. I remove the magazine and I try pulling the charging handle to eject the cartridge and it won't budge, and the rifle is locked in the "fire" position. Needless to say, I became a bit nervous. I'm not sure if there is a live round or a fired round stuck...or maybe nothing stuck. What can I do at this point?

Hartblood · October 5, 2013, 05:38 PM

Are you trimming the cases before reloading? Sounds like a live round stuck to me.

Swampman1 · October 5, 2013, 05:57 PM

Yeah I check/trim all cases before loading. COL is always within limits. Although clearly there must have been something wrong with this particular cartridge.

hodaka · October 5, 2013, 07:07 PM

Many of us have had that happen. The way to clear is to bump the butt on the ground as hard as you can while pulling the charging handle. The inertia will usually eject the cartridge. Naturally do this in a safe place with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Yes, I know that "up" is not especially safe.

Adamantium · October 5, 2013, 07:36 PM

I have hit the charging handle with a rubber mallet as well.

steve4102 · October 5, 2013, 08:38 PM

Sounds like you need to adjust your Sizing die to bump the shoulder back.

mjes92 · October 5, 2013, 10:04 PM

Colt chambers are known for having a forgiving throat dimension.
I would be surprised if case neck length was the issue.
Keep us posted.

Jeff2131 · October 5, 2013, 10:05 PM

Oh, oh, oh....i got this one guys! First hand experience with this issue. First of all, everyone is correct. Seperate upper and lower and give the upper a nice firm bang on the butt end of the charging handle. Charging handles are cheap to replace if you happen to scratch it up. Now, on to WHY it happened. When you seated your bullet, you did whats called "camming it over". This means your die is not set up properly and when you seat your bullet, the last part of the downward stroke of your press handle is pushing the bullet AND the case neck down at the same time. Take a known good round and compare it to the stuck round. Ill bet youll see a slight buldge at the base of the case shoulder. That slight buldge allows the bolt to load the round and lock the lugs but does not allow it to fire when you pull the trigger. Simply reread the instructions and reset your die properly and this issue will be avoided. Also, its a pain, but youll need to go back through your reloads and.inspect for more of these buldged rounds so as not to lock up the rifle again. As for the defective round, pull it, reuse the powder and bullet but i would not recommend trying to resize and reuse the case.

Jimro · October 6, 2013, 05:26 AM

Only safe thing to do is force that charging handle back. With the web of your thumb on the charging handle thump the butt of your rifle (if you have a collapsible buttstock you need to collapse it) until the bolt comes back.

There are "unsafe" options as well. I don't recommend them.

Jimro

Nathan · October 6, 2013, 07:01 AM

In my case, it seemed to be a slight bulge at the base.

I ended up banging it against a wooden pole. This allowed me good muzzle control.

Swampman1 · October 6, 2013, 08:30 AM

OK thanks for the replies guys. Hopefully sometime today, I'll go out to a more secluded area, and get that charging handle back. I'll keep you posted.

steve4102 · October 6, 2013, 08:39 AM

After you get it open and the live round out of the chamber, go back to square one to determine the problem.

Take some fired brass and size them. Check to see if this sized brass(no bullet) chambers and extracts with ease. If so, then your issue will most likely be with the seating die. If not, screw the sizing die into the press a little at a time until they do chamber. You should have your sizing set up to touch the shell holder plus about 1/4 turn more.

Make sure you have the seating die set up correctly.
Back the seating die way way out of the press.
Place a sized case in the shell holder.
Screw the seating die into the press until you feel it make contact with the sized case.
Back the seating die out of the press at least one full turn and lock it down.

Good luck!

No, you cannot seat a bullet long enough to contact the lands in an AR chamber and still have the round fit the Mag. To long OAL is not your problem.

WhyteP38 · October 6, 2013, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Oh, oh, oh....i got this one guys! First hand experience with this issue. First of all, everyone is correct. Seperate upper and lower and give the upper a nice firm bang on the butt end of the charging handle. Charging handles are cheap to replace if you happen to scratch it up. Now, on to WHY it happened. When you seated your bullet, you did whats called "camming it over". This means your die is not set up properly and when you seat your bullet, the last part of the downward stroke of your press handle is pushing the bullet AND the case neck down at the same time. Take a known good round and compare it to the stuck round. Ill bet youll see a slight buldge at the base of the case shoulder. That slight buldge allows the bolt to load the round and lock the lugs but does not allow it to fire when you pull the trigger. Simply reread the instructions and reset your die properly and this issue will be avoided. Also, its a pain, but youll need to go back through your reloads and.inspect for more of these buldged rounds so as not to lock up the rifle again. As for the defective round, pull it, reuse the powder and bullet but i would not recommend trying to resize and reuse the case.

+1. That's what I was thinking too.

Swampman1 · October 6, 2013, 05:42 PM

OK guys, an update. My son and I went out to try releasing the charging handle this morning. It was all very simple. While in a seated position, he placed the butt of the rifle against his chest and pulled the charging handle with both hands and back comes the charging handle, and out comes the unfired cartridge. So that problem is solved. Now although I haven't yet tried the suggestions posted, I did drop that same "stuck" cartridge into the open chamber afterwards, and it had a great little "plink" sound. I tilted the rifle upwards, and the cartridge slipped out of battery just fine. So as Steve suggested, I will try resetting my seating die and see what effect that will have.

steve4102 · October 6, 2013, 06:06 PM

Quote:

So as Steve suggested, I will try resetting my seating die and see what effect that will have.

Sorry, I suggested you re-set your Sizing die first, then your seating die. Do not forget to check the sizing die.

jepp2 · October 6, 2013, 06:14 PM

A Wilson cartridge gage can be very helpful in setting your sizing die properly for headspace, checking if your cases need to be trimmed and checking your loaded ammo.

WhyteP38 · October 6, 2013, 06:20 PM

Quote:

While in a seated position, he placed the butt of the rifle against his chest and pulled the charging handle with both hands and back comes the charging handle, and out comes the unfired cartridge. So that problem is solved. Now although I haven't yet tried the suggestions posted, I did drop that same "stuck" cartridge into the open chamber afterwards, and it had a great little "plink" sound. I tilted the rifle upwards, and the cartridge slipped out of battery just fine.

How much force did he need to pull the charging handle back? Typical force, such as normally used for ejecting a live round? Extra force? If extra force, the round was jammed into the chamber.

Which leads me to your dropping of the round into the chamber. Did you simply drop it in, or did you try to close the bolt with the forward assist? I once had a round that loaded into the chamber, but the bolt couldn't close. After removing it the way you did, I dropped the round into the chamber. It seemed to go in just fine, but I couldn't close the bolt with the forward assist. Turned out, it was slightly bulged.

Also, when you originally said you pulled the trigger and nothing happened, did you mean the hammer didn't fall, or the hammer fell but the round didn't fire? What's the primer look like on the round you removed? Tiny dent from the floating firing pin? Or a big dent? A tiny dent could mean the round didn't chamber fully, indicating a case problem. A big dent could mean a bad primer.

steve4102 · October 6, 2013, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhyteP38

Which leads me to your dropping of the round into the chamber. Did you simply drop it in, or did you try to close the bolt with the forward assist? I once had a round that loaded into the chamber, but the bolt couldn't close. After removing it the way you did, I dropped the round into the chamber. It seemed to go in just fine, but I couldn't close the bolt with the forward assist. Turned out, it was slightly bulged.

Good catch! If he did not chamber the case and let the action close completely he did not check much of anything.

Jeff2131 · October 6, 2013, 08:08 PM

In the future, check to see if the lugs locked. That is an indicator of a buldged case. Also, if those lugs lock, you WILL NOT be able to simply pull back on the handle, you will need to seperate the upper and lower and firmly bang the charging handle to then pull the handle and bolt out. Also, if you cycle a round in any AR, even without a problem, youll have a small dent in the primer because the firings pin makes contact on every cycle, regardless of firinging

WhyteP38 · October 7, 2013, 08:39 AM

Jeff2131, you are correct. I was writing in the context of the OP perhaps thinking the tiny dent meant the hammer fell on a dead primer, but I left out too much.

It's my understanding that the extended unlocked bolt and carrier are longer then the firing pin, so the firing pin cannot possibly contact the primer until it is collapsed and the bolt is locked.

Swampman1 · October 7, 2013, 10:03 AM

Whyte- "How much force did he need to pull the charging handle back? Typical force, such as normally used for ejecting a live round? Extra force? If extra force, the round was jammed into the chamber."

Not sure just how much force he used, but obviously it took more than normal.

"Which leads me to your dropping of the round into the chamber. Did you simply drop it in, or did you try to close the bolt with the forward assist?"

No I just dropped it in. At the time I was thinking bulged case. But I guess that didn't prove much. When I go back out, I will let the bolt actually chamber the round and see what happens.

Also the stuck cartridge shows absolutely no signs of a dent in the primer.

Swampman1 · October 7, 2013, 10:05 AM

Jeff- "In the future, check to see if the lugs locked."

Sorry I'm very new to all this. How do I go about checking this exactly?

WhyteP38 · October 7, 2013, 10:47 AM

Swampman1, since there's no dent in the primer, I'm pretty sure you have a bulged round. I'm thinking your bolt did not fully close on it, which kept the floating firing pin from an inertial hit.

I would not let the bolt try to chamber it again. You'll likely have it jammed again. Instead, lay the edge of the case against a flat surface. You should see a gap where there is a bulge.

If you insist on chamber-testing it - while observing ALL safety measures - drop the round into the chamber, pull the charging handle back, and slowly let the bolt slide forward by holding the charging handle all the way. Then, using the forward assist, see if you can close the bolt on the round. DO NOT force it! To properly close, the bolt will require just a little bit of force. It's hard to describe, but if you chamber-test a known good factory round this way, you'll get a good idea. And again, observe ALL safety measures!

Jeff2131 · October 7, 2013, 11:09 AM

Two ways, either simply look at the front of.the.bolt through the extractor opening on the side of the rifle or seperate the upper and lower and you have almost full view of the entire bolt.

Swampman1 · October 8, 2013, 09:24 AM

OK thanks for the input guys. One more question, when checking headspace on the cases, the majority of them do not fall into the "flush" or just below flush on the headspace gage. Some are just "a hair" above. NowI did talk to a local reloader about this(reloading for 40 years), and he said he doesn't pay much attention to that. He says "as long as his case length and COL are good he's not concerned." However, if I can, I would refer getting it at least flush. When I screw down on my resizing die about 1/4 turn it becomes very resistant. Is that normal?

October 5, 2013, 04:57 PM	#1
Swampman1 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2013 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 432	AR issue OK guys, after shooting over 400 reloads with my Colt AR-15, I have a bit of a problem. Went to the shooting range today, and after firing off about 50 rounds, I pull the trigger and...nothing. I remove the magazine and I try pulling the charging handle to eject the cartridge and it won't budge, and the rifle is locked in the "fire" position. Needless to say, I became a bit nervous. I'm not sure if there is a live round or a fired round stuck...or maybe nothing stuck. What can I do at this point?

October 5, 2013, 05:57 PM	#3
Swampman1 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2013 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 432	Yeah I check/trim all cases before loading. COL is always within limits. Although clearly there must have been something wrong with this particular cartridge. Last edited by Swampman1; October 5, 2013 at 06:27 PM.

October 5, 2013, 07:36 PM	#5
Adamantium Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 1999 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,021	I have hit the charging handle with a rubber mallet as well. __________________ New gun, same ol' shot.

October 5, 2013, 10:04 PM	#7
mjes92 Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2013 Location: Land of 10,000 taxes Posts: 211	Colt chambers are known for having a forgiving throat dimension. I would be surprised if case neck length was the issue. Keep us posted. __________________ Dad !!! "It's only going to be perfect if you do it yourself." - my teenage daughter Dad !!! "I'm not scared" My Cancer fighting daughter." Cancer Sucks NRA - Life Member

October 5, 2013, 10:05 PM	#8
Jeff2131 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Spring City, PA Posts: 497	Oh, oh, oh....i got this one guys! First hand experience with this issue. First of all, everyone is correct. Seperate upper and lower and give the upper a nice firm bang on the butt end of the charging handle. Charging handles are cheap to replace if you happen to scratch it up. Now, on to WHY it happened. When you seated your bullet, you did whats called "camming it over". This means your die is not set up properly and when you seat your bullet, the last part of the downward stroke of your press handle is pushing the bullet AND the case neck down at the same time. Take a known good round and compare it to the stuck round. Ill bet youll see a slight buldge at the base of the case shoulder. That slight buldge allows the bolt to load the round and lock the lugs but does not allow it to fire when you pull the trigger. Simply reread the instructions and reset your die properly and this issue will be avoided. Also, its a pain, but youll need to go back through your reloads and.inspect for more of these buldged rounds so as not to lock up the rifle again. As for the defective round, pull it, reuse the powder and bullet but i would not recommend trying to resize and reuse the case. __________________ ---I DON'T DIAL 911---

October 5, 2013, 05:38 PM	#2
Hartblood Member Join Date: May 11, 2013 Posts: 28	Are you trimming the cases before reloading? Sounds like a live round stuck to me.

October 5, 2013, 07:07 PM	#4
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	Many of us have had that happen. The way to clear is to bump the butt on the ground as hard as you can while pulling the charging handle. The inertia will usually eject the cartridge. Naturally do this in a safe place with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Yes, I know that "up" is not especially safe.

October 5, 2013, 08:38 PM	#6
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,952	Sounds like you need to adjust your Sizing die to bump the shoulder back.

October 6, 2013, 05:26 AM	#9
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	Only safe thing to do is force that charging handle back. With the web of your thumb on the charging handle thump the butt of your rifle (if you have a collapsible buttstock you need to collapse it) until the bolt comes back. There are "unsafe" options as well. I don't recommend them. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

October 6, 2013, 07:01 AM	#10
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,322	In my case, it seemed to be a slight bulge at the base. I ended up banging it against a wooden pole. This allowed me good muzzle control.

October 6, 2013, 08:30 AM	#11
Swampman1 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2013 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 432	OK thanks for the replies guys. Hopefully sometime today, I'll go out to a more secluded area, and get that charging handle back. I'll keep you posted.

October 6, 2013, 08:39 AM	#12
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,952	After you get it open and the live round out of the chamber, go back to square one to determine the problem. Take some fired brass and size them. Check to see if this sized brass(no bullet) chambers and extracts with ease. If so, then your issue will most likely be with the seating die. If not, screw the sizing die into the press a little at a time until they do chamber. You should have your sizing set up to touch the shell holder plus about 1/4 turn more. Make sure you have the seating die set up correctly. Back the seating die way way out of the press. Place a sized case in the shell holder. Screw the seating die into the press until you feel it make contact with the sized case. Back the seating die out of the press at least one full turn and lock it down. Good luck! No, you cannot seat a bullet long enough to contact the lands in an AR chamber and still have the round fit the Mag. To long OAL is not your problem.

October 6, 2013, 05:42 PM	#14
Swampman1 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2013 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 432	Update OK guys, an update. My son and I went out to try releasing the charging handle this morning. It was all very simple. While in a seated position, he placed the butt of the rifle against his chest and pulled the charging handle with both hands and back comes the charging handle, and out comes the unfired cartridge. So that problem is solved. Now although I haven't yet tried the suggestions posted, I did drop that same "stuck" cartridge into the open chamber afterwards, and it had a great little "plink" sound. I tilted the rifle upwards, and the cartridge slipped out of battery just fine. So as Steve suggested, I will try resetting my seating die and see what effect that will have.

October 6, 2013, 06:14 PM	#16
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	A Wilson cartridge gage can be very helpful in setting your sizing die properly for headspace, checking if your cases need to be trimmed and checking your loaded ammo. __________________ NRA Benefactor Life member

October 6, 2013, 08:08 PM	#19
Jeff2131 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Spring City, PA Posts: 497	In the future, check to see if the lugs locked. That is an indicator of a buldged case. Also, if those lugs lock, you WILL NOT be able to simply pull back on the handle, you will need to seperate the upper and lower and firmly bang the charging handle to then pull the handle and bolt out. Also, if you cycle a round in any AR, even without a problem, youll have a small dent in the primer because the firings pin makes contact on every cycle, regardless of firinging __________________ ---I DON'T DIAL 911---

October 7, 2013, 08:39 AM	#20
WhyteP38 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2005 Location: Behind a keyboard. Posts: 1,565	Jeff2131, you are correct. I was writing in the context of the OP perhaps thinking the tiny dent meant the hammer fell on a dead primer, but I left out too much. It's my understanding that the extended unlocked bolt and carrier are longer then the firing pin, so the firing pin cannot possibly contact the primer until it is collapsed and the bolt is locked.

October 7, 2013, 10:03 AM	#21
Swampman1 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2013 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 432	Whyte- "How much force did he need to pull the charging handle back? Typical force, such as normally used for ejecting a live round? Extra force? If extra force, the round was jammed into the chamber." Not sure just how much force he used, but obviously it took more than normal. "Which leads me to your dropping of the round into the chamber. Did you simply drop it in, or did you try to close the bolt with the forward assist?" No I just dropped it in. At the time I was thinking bulged case. But I guess that didn't prove much. When I go back out, I will let the bolt actually chamber the round and see what happens. Also the stuck cartridge shows absolutely no signs of a dent in the primer.

October 7, 2013, 10:05 AM	#22
Swampman1 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2013 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 432	Jeff- "In the future, check to see if the lugs locked." Sorry I'm very new to all this. How do I go about checking this exactly?

October 7, 2013, 10:47 AM	#23
WhyteP38 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2005 Location: Behind a keyboard. Posts: 1,565	Swampman1, since there's no dent in the primer, I'm pretty sure you have a bulged round. I'm thinking your bolt did not fully close on it, which kept the floating firing pin from an inertial hit. I would not let the bolt try to chamber it again. You'll likely have it jammed again. Instead, lay the edge of the case against a flat surface. You should see a gap where there is a bulge. If you insist on chamber-testing it - while observing ALL safety measures - drop the round into the chamber, pull the charging handle back, and slowly let the bolt slide forward by holding the charging handle all the way. Then, using the forward assist, see if you can close the bolt on the round. DO NOT force it! To properly close, the bolt will require just a little bit of force. It's hard to describe, but if you chamber-test a known good factory round this way, you'll get a good idea. And again, observe ALL safety measures!

October 7, 2013, 11:09 AM	#24
Jeff2131 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Spring City, PA Posts: 497	Two ways, either simply look at the front of.the.bolt through the extractor opening on the side of the rifle or seperate the upper and lower and you have almost full view of the entire bolt. __________________ ---I DON'T DIAL 911---

October 8, 2013, 09:24 AM	#25
Swampman1 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2013 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 432	OK thanks for the input guys. One more question, when checking headspace on the cases, the majority of them do not fall into the "flush" or just below flush on the headspace gage. Some are just "a hair" above. NowI did talk to a local reloader about this(reloading for 40 years), and he said he doesn't pay much attention to that. He says "as long as his case length and COL are good he's not concerned." However, if I can, I would refer getting it at least flush. When I screw down on my resizing die about 1/4 turn it becomes very resistant. Is that normal?

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