Defensive fall back?

Ozzieman · August 27, 2016, 11:58 AM

With the possible political problems concerning the 2nd amendment after the next election, has any one thought about purchasing cap and ball revolvers to insure they have a defensive fall back?
I didn’t buy mine for this reason but I do have 5 and enough balls, caps and powder to last sometime.

And please don't start this into a political discussion! This question only covers your thought about purchasing cap and ball revolvers.

cjwils · August 27, 2016, 12:38 PM

If the anti gun people ever control the white house, the congress, and the courts to such an extent that you would be forced to fall back on the use of cap and ball guns, then it would be a very minor step for the anti gun factions to also outlaw cap and ball, or any other antique or replica gun.

K_Mac · August 27, 2016, 01:01 PM

I would not consider cap and ball a reasonable or acceptable alternative for self-defense. As Forrest Hump once said, "That's all I have to say about that."

g.willikers · August 27, 2016, 02:27 PM

Some states treat cap and ball revolvers the same as modern ones.
If the folks in power increase their attack on gun owners, you might be better off with a bow and arrow than any kind of firearm.
Even crossbows are treated badly in some places.
Remember the true goal of disarmament is the forced control of the citizens and has always been exactly that.

Old Bill Dibble · August 27, 2016, 02:37 PM

Using the UK as a guide I don't think a cap and ball, bow and arrow, ninja sword or a zombie knife (yes those are getting banned now too) are adequate "fall back".

Eventually everything will be banned.

kraigwy · August 29, 2016, 10:23 AM

Regardless, worse come to worse in the elections, it may become difficult to buy a gun but you wont get them banned, not in a long time.

I'm going to go out on a ledge and say it wont happen in several decades, not in my life time anyway. A president cant do it, too many states wont allow congress to do it.

What can happen is make it difficult to get ammo, and components. The EPA can sneak in rules restricting transportation of ammo and components.

Not too long ago they closed one of the last lead mines. Problem is there is too much used lead out there to effect shooting, but its a sign.

About 40 years ago when I started shooting High Power, the club women brought food to the matches for a picnic after we shot. We'd set around telling stories, and this topic would come up. There were two older shooters, in their 70s. They brought up the same fears back then and told us younger shooters to concentrate on Primers. You control primers you control shooting and guns. You have primers you can always s shoot.

I go one step farther, I'll add powder with that. Lots of re-usable brass around, lots of lead, Any firearm can shoot cast bullets. If you have primers and powder, you'll always be able to shoot.

You can look back and see shortages that pop up every now and then. Every election there is a scare followed by component shortages.

No one is going to come to your house after your guns. Not in this life time.

But we all know primers and powder sometimes are difficult to get.

Every time I need a brick of primers, I buy two. Every time I need a pound of powder, I buy two. If stored properly, they will last forever, or at least longer then I will last.

I have several thousand LP primers I bought in the mid 80s, some older then that. Every now and then I buy the same make and size new, to compare them. Through a choreograph and testing for accuracy, I cant tell the difference.

Just last week, I was told buy the owner of a regular prominent gun shop to prepare, as another drought is coming soon. I wasn't told this because he wanted to make a sale, he knows my policy habits. Plus his prices are a bit higher then the box stores.

Take this for what its worth. JMHO

TailGator · August 29, 2016, 10:45 AM

The last few election cycles have produced repeated shortages of various sorts of ammunition and firearms, but none have been a result of passed legislation. We have been our own worst enemies with panic buying and hoarding.

SC4006 · August 29, 2016, 02:38 PM

Quote:

No one is going to come to your house after your guns. Not in this life time.

Actually, this has already happened before. During the aftermath of hurricane katrina police officers went door to door confiscating lawfully owned firearms to prepare for a forced evacuation. Yeah it was only one small area and not the whole country, but it shows that it can happen.

Skans · August 30, 2016, 08:27 AM

Heck no! I'm not about to use cap and ball revolvers as a fall back for anything. Why would I? Its easier, cheaper and more sensible to just pick up another 1000 rounds of 5.56 and 9mm ammo when I have some spare change. How many rounds of ammunition can I realistically be expected to go through over the next 30 years? Even if its somewhere around 50,000 rounds, that's about a $12,000-13,000 investment, and I'm set for life.

That's right, I doubt I will be shooting 1k+ rounds/year in my 70's and 80's. If I am then something went seriously wrong!

Powder, primer and brass can be hard to get, and it's not easy to manufacture any of these yourself. Why bother? You can buy cheap .223 for $245/1000. No, you can't reload it. No, you can't hit a bug's nut 1000 yards away with it. It's good, cheap, effective ammo for plinking and defense. If spending lots of time making (and shooting) match grade ammo is your thing, then I can understand the time and money spent on this. However, if you just want to make sure you have enough ammo to shoot then buy and store the ammo now. Buying and storing ammo components so you can make ammo in the far future for plinking and defense is a waste of time (buying, inventorying and storing the stuff) on top of a waste of time (hand-making cartridges better than what you can buy now).

Lohman446 · August 30, 2016, 08:39 AM

A lot of effective defensive tactics are not based on projectile weapons.

Jleonard · August 30, 2016, 10:45 AM

I've actually held on to my .44 cal Colt 1860 Army revolver for that very reason. Just in case.
However, I am now selling it.

benEzra · August 30, 2016, 06:46 PM

Quote:

The last few election cycles have produced repeated shortages of various sorts of ammunition and firearms, but none have been a result of passed legislation.

Unless you live in California, or New York, or Massachusetts, or a few other states.

Looking around the USA, it seems to me that the best hedge against future bans is to buy the guns you want, not the guns you don't want. Any Massachusetts residents that went out and bought AR's last year still legally own them, but those who didn't can no longer do so legally. Hedging against the possibility of a drop in availability is not irrational, given the activities of a certain control-freak billionaire who has made it his life's mission to outlaw many of the the most popular guns in the United States.

Also, I'll point out that AR's, Mini-14's, Tavors, etc. are still legal in Canada and much of Europe, and that even in the UK, you can own a semiautomatic shotgun with unlimited capacity on the right certificate (but not a cap-and-ball revolver). Even Australia, which is gun-control hell compared to most of the Western world, still allows bolt-actions and IIRC lever-actions (for now).

Evan Thomas · August 30, 2016, 07:00 PM

Closed, at the request of the OP.

August 27, 2016, 12:38 PM	#2
cjwils Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2010 Location: Washington state Posts: 401	If the anti gun people ever control the white house, the congress, and the courts to such an extent that you would be forced to fall back on the use of cap and ball guns, then it would be a very minor step for the anti gun factions to also outlaw cap and ball, or any other antique or replica gun. Last edited by cjwils; August 27, 2016 at 12:45 PM.

August 27, 2016, 01:01 PM	#3
K_Mac Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2010 Posts: 1,850	I would not consider cap and ball a reasonable or acceptable alternative for self-defense. As Forrest Hump once said, "That's all I have to say about that." __________________ "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin

August 27, 2016, 02:27 PM	#4
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Some states treat cap and ball revolvers the same as modern ones. If the folks in power increase their attack on gun owners, you might be better off with a bow and arrow than any kind of firearm. Even crossbows are treated badly in some places. Remember the true goal of disarmament is the forced control of the citizens and has always been exactly that. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

August 29, 2016, 10:23 AM	#6
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Regardless, worse come to worse in the elections, it may become difficult to buy a gun but you wont get them banned, not in a long time. I'm going to go out on a ledge and say it wont happen in several decades, not in my life time anyway. A president cant do it, too many states wont allow congress to do it. What can happen is make it difficult to get ammo, and components. The EPA can sneak in rules restricting transportation of ammo and components. Not too long ago they closed one of the last lead mines. Problem is there is too much used lead out there to effect shooting, but its a sign. About 40 years ago when I started shooting High Power, the club women brought food to the matches for a picnic after we shot. We'd set around telling stories, and this topic would come up. There were two older shooters, in their 70s. They brought up the same fears back then and told us younger shooters to concentrate on Primers. You control primers you control shooting and guns. You have primers you can always s shoot. I go one step farther, I'll add powder with that. Lots of re-usable brass around, lots of lead, Any firearm can shoot cast bullets. If you have primers and powder, you'll always be able to shoot. You can look back and see shortages that pop up every now and then. Every election there is a scare followed by component shortages. No one is going to come to your house after your guns. Not in this life time. But we all know primers and powder sometimes are difficult to get. Every time I need a brick of primers, I buy two. Every time I need a pound of powder, I buy two. If stored properly, they will last forever, or at least longer then I will last. I have several thousand LP primers I bought in the mid 80s, some older then that. Every now and then I buy the same make and size new, to compare them. Through a choreograph and testing for accuracy, I cant tell the difference. Just last week, I was told buy the owner of a regular prominent gun shop to prepare, as another drought is coming soon. I wasn't told this because he wanted to make a sale, he knows my policy habits. Plus his prices are a bit higher then the box stores. Take this for what its worth. JMHO __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

August 30, 2016, 08:27 AM	#9
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	Heck no! I'm not about to use cap and ball revolvers as a fall back for anything. Why would I? Its easier, cheaper and more sensible to just pick up another 1000 rounds of 5.56 and 9mm ammo when I have some spare change. How many rounds of ammunition can I realistically be expected to go through over the next 30 years? Even if its somewhere around 50,000 rounds, that's about a $12,000-13,000 investment, and I'm set for life. That's right, I doubt I will be shooting 1k+ rounds/year in my 70's and 80's. If I am then something went seriously wrong! Powder, primer and brass can be hard to get, and it's not easy to manufacture any of these yourself. Why bother? You can buy cheap .223 for $245/1000. No, you can't reload it. No, you can't hit a bug's nut 1000 yards away with it. It's good, cheap, effective ammo for plinking and defense. If spending lots of time making (and shooting) match grade ammo is your thing, then I can understand the time and money spent on this. However, if you just want to make sure you have enough ammo to shoot then buy and store the ammo now. Buying and storing ammo components so you can make ammo in the far future for plinking and defense is a waste of time (buying, inventorying and storing the stuff) on top of a waste of time (hand-making cartridges better than what you can buy now). Last edited by Skans; August 30, 2016 at 08:46 AM.

August 27, 2016, 02:37 PM	#5
Old Bill Dibble Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2016 Posts: 802	Using the UK as a guide I don't think a cap and ball, bow and arrow, ninja sword or a zombie knife (yes those are getting banned now too) are adequate "fall back". Eventually everything will be banned.

August 29, 2016, 10:45 AM	#7
TailGator Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,787	The last few election cycles have produced repeated shortages of various sorts of ammunition and firearms, but none have been a result of passed legislation. We have been our own worst enemies with panic buying and hoarding.

August 30, 2016, 08:39 AM	#10
Lohman446 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2016 Posts: 2,192	A lot of effective defensive tactics are not based on projectile weapons.

August 30, 2016, 10:45 AM	#11
Jleonard Member Join Date: October 27, 2015 Location: Florida Posts: 40	I've actually held on to my .44 cal Colt 1860 Army revolver for that very reason. Just in case. However, I am now selling it.

August 30, 2016, 07:00 PM	#13
Evan Thomas Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2008 Location: Upper midwest Posts: 5,631	Closed, at the request of the OP. __________________ Never let anything mechanical know you're in a hurry.