Walther PK380 Defect

malleycat7 · December 8, 2011, 10:08 PM

In researching purchase of pistol for my wife, I had narrowed my choices to Bersa Thunder 380 and Walther PK380. I was a little concerned about the strength required to rack the Thunder 380's slide and wanted to try a PK380. I went into one of the better local gunshops and asked about the PK380. The gentleman behind the counter said they did not deal in the PK380, because when they first came out and they sold them, a number of them were brought back with evidence of scratching and gouging between the barrel and the slide. They had stopped handling the PK380 as a result of their observations. I asked if that that was early in production and if they had any information that it was still occurring of not. He said they did not know, they were not handling them. Has anyone else heard this story, and know if the condition is still showing up or has been corrected?

PSP · December 9, 2011, 07:12 AM

Welcome to the forum. Sounds to me like he had a Bersa to sell but not the Walther. My brother has a PK380 and absolutely loves it. No problems on that one. I don't recall hearing of this problem on the Walther Forum either.

Brian48 · December 9, 2011, 07:23 AM

The gouging is a real complaint, but not necessarily a defect. The edges contacting the barrel is sharp and on new guns, the wear looks alarming, but actually stops and goes no further after the gun has broken in. After that, its fine.

I had a Pk380 for about a year and it was a very good gun. Main reason for selling it off was that it was rather large to serve as a pocket gun and as a CCW, there are better options than the .380.

Pianoguy · December 9, 2011, 08:42 AM

I have a PK380. The barrel does get scratched a bit but is certainly not gouged. Nothing to worry about. As a firearm I didn't expect it to remain spotless after I had been shooting it for a while. But it has never had any failures of any kind, shoots well with little recoil and fits beautifully in the hand (at least in mine - I think it has the best grip of any gun I've tried).

The biggest gripes I have heard about it are 1) it has a long relatively hard DA trigger pull (the SA is nice though), 2) it does have a take-down key, loose it, your screwed, 3) the recoil spring is a bear to get back in without using your cleaning rod to keep it straight (put it in from the front and slowly push it out while your pushing the rod into position) and 4) extra magazines can be hard to find - if you really need one order one and be patient - I did get two extra but it took nearly 3 months. This is not a gun you would want to have to field strip in a hurry which has turned off the hard core defensive pistol crowd. Quality-wise this is not a Walther PPS but it does cost less than half what a PPS would run you and I have found it to be reliable

The slide is ridiculously easy to rack compared to other semis. It is very comfortable to shoot. It's a little big for conealed carry but it is on the light side and relatively thin for it's size so with the right holster it can be carried comfortably.

I haven't shot a Bersa but for the money they seem to be a good buy. Since they are a blow-back design I would expect them to be more snappy recoil-wise than the PK380.

carguychris · December 9, 2011, 09:58 AM

+1 Brian48; the wear is normal and is nothing to worry about.

In terms of the gun overall, I'm not crazy about it. Here's my take, YMMV.

PK380 Plus:

Low price
Comfy grip
Slide is extremely easy to operate (+1 Pianoguy)
Felt recoil is remarkably low, shoots almost like a .22!
Reasonably accurate
Decent sights (unusual in a .380)
Decent capacity

PK380 Minus:

Obviously quite cheaply built compared to PP-series Walthers
No manual slide stop (yeah, I know the PP, PPK, and PPK/S don't have one either, but that doesn't mean I have to like it!)
Mag release paddles take some getting used to
Field-stripping requires small and easy-to-lose proprietary tool (also +1 Pianoguy)
Large by .380 standards
Hammer is small and difficult to manipulate for manual decocking, which leads me to...
Main critique: I really, really, really dislike the fact that the hammer will drop against the engaged safety. First, this may lull an inexperienced shooter into unsafe decocking habits. Second, and perhaps more importantly, it makes it difficult to tell exactly what has gone wrong in the event of a first-round failure-to-fire. With most other automatics, the diagnosis is simple: dud round, clear the pistol, tap-rack-bang. However, with the PK380, TWO things can be wrong: dud round OR the safety is engaged. This may lead a shooter to waste valuable time in a real-life SD incident.

I greatly prefer pistols with a more traditional operating system in which the trigger either locks up or flops around uselessly with the safety engaged; then the shooter INSTANTLY knows that the safety is on.

Pianoguy · December 9, 2011, 12:32 PM

I agree with the above about the safety. Decocking it is something you definitley want to take your time doing and make sure that safety's on. I still don't trust it, make sure it's pointing in a safe direction and do it real slow and light. That hammer block looks awfully thin to me.

Also you will forget about it - I have. After using a pistol with no safety I picked up this one and pulled the trigger a couple of times with nothing but clicks forgetting the safety was on. After a few grumbles as to what broke now, I realized I had forgot to take the safety off after I had de-cocked it (which shows that the hammer block seems to work okay - I'll still keep doing it slowly).

Orginally I thought a safety was a good idea on a gun. What's a better idea is do enough training so you don't need one in the first place. I'd rather have a safe trigger than a manual safety now. Or a decocker like my Beretta's which leaves the trigger doing nothing flop as he said. But that's still a safety that you can forget about under stress.

There's no way you would carry this gun with the safety on anyways, especially with a DA trigger that is heavier and longer than a revolver's.

But still for my money this is not a bad handgun. It just has some oddities that you need to get used to. It is a real nice shooter. I had thought of Bersa, too, when I initially bought it. I made the final decision based on it being a Walther (and therefore had to be a cooler gun, right!) and I am not sorry. I'd probably make the same choice again.

carguychris · December 9, 2011, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Decocking it is something you definitley want to take your time doing and make sure that safety's on. I still don't trust it... What's a better idea is do enough training so you don't need [the safety] in the first place. I'd rather have a safe trigger than a manual safety now... There's no way you would carry this gun with the safety on anyways, especially with a DA trigger that is heavier and longer than a revolver's.

You realize this and I realize this. The problem is does the average inexperienced shooter realize this.

The fact that the pistol can be carried in Condition 1 has been mentioned as a selling point by many gun rags and online reviews, not to mention gun store clerks. People will be carrying the PK380 cocked and locked. Furthermore, the pistol's remarkably light recoil and easy slide makes it a likely choice as a gift to a non-shooter.

I'm aware that some other pistols can be carried in Condition 1 or DA/safety-off. Perhaps the most common examples are the CZ-75B and the Beretta 80-series B & BB. However, IIRC these pistols have triggers that give the shooter instant tactile feedback that the safety is engaged. Furthermore, thumbing the hammer down over a live round with the safety off is the only way to decock these pistols, and this fact makes it more obvious to any reasonably prudent shooter that this task should be approached with a high degree of caution, every single time.

Pianoguy · December 9, 2011, 03:17 PM

I hadn't heard that anyone was promoting a gun like this using cocked and locked as a selling point. That is dumb with this gun for anyone in my opinion. And since this gun will be sold to mostly inexperienced shooters - and I admit to having been one - that is very irresponsible.

All of these semi-autos have such short and light SA triggers (and some DAO only ones too that people are recommending to beginners as good conceal carry weapons) that nobody should be carrying them cocked and locked in my opinion. I admit to being a little uncomfortable with something like a Sig P238 and that 1911 action. I just recently watched a beginner who heard all kinds of good stuff about the gun but then did not ahve a clue how to unload it once it was cocked and locked.

The SA trigger is great for accuracy on the range. Is it really necessary for the distances needed for self-defence? Is anybody that weak that they can't pull the trigger under stress with somebody right in their face?

Starting to get a little off track here. Sorry.

Sevens · December 10, 2011, 12:17 AM

Quote:

All of these semi-autos have such short and light SA triggers (and some DAO only ones too that people are recommending to beginners as good conceal carry weapons) that nobody should be carrying them cocked and locked in my opinion.

I wouldn't go as far as to say "nobody" should... but this handgun would be a helluva lot better with NO manual safety and merely a decocker.

I agree 100% with what cgc said, it's confusing at best, even to seasoned gun handlers, the way the safety on this handgun operates. Leave it SAFETY OFF with the first shot double action and that's how it should be employed.

The other gripe I'd add to the list of gripes is that I simply cannot imagine that this pistol will stand up to rigorous high-round count shooting. It's just not built for it. However... at the price point, you could buy two and shoot the crap out of one for training while carrying the other.

As for positives, I also agree with all the listed positives, and I must say (as I always do when we talk about the PK-380) that this pistol is the softest shooting .380 handgun I've ever come across, EVER. For all the negatives... if the person looking at the pistol is extremely recoil sensitive, to the point where it's got you completely fumbled and you can't find anything other than rimfire, that person needs to try a PK-380, IMO, and feel the softness and the ridiculously easy to rack slide.

There are many things about this pistol that I can't stand... but it's such a soft shooter and so low priced, there's a reason to buy or recommend one. When the day comes that you are tasked with finding the most capable handgun to be used defensively for someone that can barely stand even the lightest amount of recoil... you may need to check this one out.

zombieslayer · December 10, 2011, 12:33 AM

As a huge fan of the p99's and pps, I find the pk to be nowhere in the same league in terms of buikd quality. And yeah they are known to sometimes have issues. But they don't say made in DE (deutchland) so they arent real Walthers.
For a fullsize .380, I like the CZ83.

PSP · December 10, 2011, 05:36 AM

Quote:

But they don't say made in DE (deutchland) so they arent real Walthers

The PK380s I've seen do in fact have the German DE export mark. Where was your PK380 made?

DE is clearly seen just below the ejection port.

(photo borrowed from Photobucket)

Nakanokalronin · December 10, 2011, 06:36 AM

My Aunt was looking for a gun that didn't have a lot of recoil and with controls that where easy to manipulate. She first rented a PPK, didn't like it and switched it with a PK380 and absolutely loved it. I shot it a few times and it is ridiculously easy to shoot, rack the slide and get great groupings with. For someone who is recoil sensitive and/or may have a hard time racking a slide and/or have a hard time loading a double stack magazine,the PK380 is the gun for them.
The great thing is the gun is not small , but not quite service size. My Aunt has small hands and I have large hands, but we both thought the grip was quite comfortable.

The example we tried was obviously shot quite a bit with little cleaning and there where no failures of any type. I asked the counter people if they had anyone complain about the rental PK380 and they couldn't think of one single person saying they had an issue.

If there really is some normal wear that appears on PK380s, I wouldn't worry about it. Considering how many rounds must have been through the example I fired, I don't think it's actually an "issue" at all. If your local shop won't carry them, pick one up from Bud's.

zombieslayer · December 10, 2011, 06:42 AM

I stand corrected. They are made by Umarex, and still have the DE stamp. Its the antler proof mark that they dont have.

Marquezj16 · December 10, 2011, 08:05 AM

I had one and it was an easy shooting and accurate pistol. It had one failure to feed in which it did not chamber a round fully. I blame it on me because I let it get dirty and did not lube the slide before the range session.

Overall though, I shot the heck out of it. Nothing cracked or any parts failed because of manufacturers defect. I never had problem with the safety because I practiced using it. My Beretta has a safety and I don't remember having problems with that either. It was a good pistol.

zombieslayer · December 10, 2011, 08:11 AM

Fwiw- I know three or four folks who own PK's and they all love them.

Boatme98 · December 10, 2011, 11:11 AM

A note on the Bersa. I gave my sister a Thunder .380 for her first ccw piece. As you noted the slide was hard to work. Easy fix, though.
The cure is to work it alot.
I had her sit and work the slide over and over while watching tv at night. Rack it hundreds of times. It'll get very easy.

December 8, 2011, 10:08 PM	#1
malleycat7 Junior Member Join Date: December 8, 2011 Posts: 1	Walther PK380 Defect In researching purchase of pistol for my wife, I had narrowed my choices to Bersa Thunder 380 and Walther PK380. I was a little concerned about the strength required to rack the Thunder 380's slide and wanted to try a PK380. I went into one of the better local gunshops and asked about the PK380. The gentleman behind the counter said they did not deal in the PK380, because when they first came out and they sold them, a number of them were brought back with evidence of scratching and gouging between the barrel and the slide. They had stopped handling the PK380 as a result of their observations. I asked if that that was early in production and if they had any information that it was still occurring of not. He said they did not know, they were not handling them. Has anyone else heard this story, and know if the condition is still showing up or has been corrected?

December 9, 2011, 07:23 AM	#3
Brian48 Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2001 Location: Boston, People's Republic of MA Posts: 1,616	The gouging is a real complaint, but not necessarily a defect. The edges contacting the barrel is sharp and on new guns, the wear looks alarming, but actually stops and goes no further after the gun has broken in. After that, its fine. I had a Pk380 for about a year and it was a very good gun. Main reason for selling it off was that it was rather large to serve as a pocket gun and as a CCW, there are better options than the .380. __________________ Proud to have served.

December 9, 2011, 09:58 AM	#5
carguychris Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 7,523	+1 Brian48; the wear is normal and is nothing to worry about. In terms of the gun overall, I'm not crazy about it. Here's my take, YMMV. PK380 Plus: Low price Comfy grip Slide is extremely easy to operate (+1 Pianoguy) Felt recoil is remarkably low, shoots almost like a .22! Reasonably accurate Decent sights (unusual in a .380) Decent capacity PK380 Minus: Obviously quite cheaply built compared to PP-series Walthers No manual slide stop (yeah, I know the PP, PPK, and PPK/S don't have one either, but that doesn't mean I have to like it!) Mag release paddles take some getting used to Field-stripping requires small and easy-to-lose proprietary tool (also +1 Pianoguy) Large by .380 standards Hammer is small and difficult to manipulate for manual decocking, which leads me to... Main critique: I really, really, really dislike the fact that the hammer will drop against the engaged safety. First, this may lull an inexperienced shooter into unsafe decocking habits. Second, and perhaps more importantly, it makes it difficult to tell exactly what has gone wrong in the event of a first-round failure-to-fire. With most other automatics, the diagnosis is simple: dud round, clear the pistol, tap-rack-bang. However, with the PK380, TWO things can be wrong: dud round OR the safety is engaged. This may lead a shooter to waste valuable time in a real-life SD incident. I greatly prefer pistols with a more traditional operating system in which the trigger either locks up or flops around uselessly with the safety engaged; then the shooter INSTANTLY knows that the safety is on. __________________ "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak

December 10, 2011, 12:33 AM	#10
zombieslayer Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,198	As a huge fan of the p99's and pps, I find the pk to be nowhere in the same league in terms of buikd quality. And yeah they are known to sometimes have issues. But they don't say made in DE (deutchland) so they arent real Walthers. For a fullsize .380, I like the CZ83. __________________ "An angry prophet, denouncing the hypocrisies of our time"

December 10, 2011, 06:36 AM	#12
Nakanokalronin Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2006 Posts: 1,066	My Aunt was looking for a gun that didn't have a lot of recoil and with controls that where easy to manipulate. She first rented a PPK, didn't like it and switched it with a PK380 and absolutely loved it. I shot it a few times and it is ridiculously easy to shoot, rack the slide and get great groupings with. For someone who is recoil sensitive and/or may have a hard time racking a slide and/or have a hard time loading a double stack magazine,the PK380 is the gun for them. The great thing is the gun is not small , but not quite service size. My Aunt has small hands and I have large hands, but we both thought the grip was quite comfortable. The example we tried was obviously shot quite a bit with little cleaning and there where no failures of any type. I asked the counter people if they had anyone complain about the rental PK380 and they couldn't think of one single person saying they had an issue. If there really is some normal wear that appears on PK380s, I wouldn't worry about it. Considering how many rounds must have been through the example I fired, I don't think it's actually an "issue" at all. If your local shop won't carry them, pick one up from Bud's. Last edited by Nakanokalronin; December 10, 2011 at 08:05 AM.

December 9, 2011, 07:12 AM	#2
PSP Senior Member Join Date: June 2, 2006 Location: Bowling Green Virginia Posts: 4,487	Welcome to the forum. Sounds to me like he had a Bersa to sell but not the Walther. My brother has a PK380 and absolutely loves it. No problems on that one. I don't recall hearing of this problem on the Walther Forum either.

December 9, 2011, 08:42 AM	#4
Pianoguy Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 235	I have a PK380. The barrel does get scratched a bit but is certainly not gouged. Nothing to worry about. As a firearm I didn't expect it to remain spotless after I had been shooting it for a while. But it has never had any failures of any kind, shoots well with little recoil and fits beautifully in the hand (at least in mine - I think it has the best grip of any gun I've tried). The biggest gripes I have heard about it are 1) it has a long relatively hard DA trigger pull (the SA is nice though), 2) it does have a take-down key, loose it, your screwed, 3) the recoil spring is a bear to get back in without using your cleaning rod to keep it straight (put it in from the front and slowly push it out while your pushing the rod into position) and 4) extra magazines can be hard to find - if you really need one order one and be patient - I did get two extra but it took nearly 3 months. This is not a gun you would want to have to field strip in a hurry which has turned off the hard core defensive pistol crowd. Quality-wise this is not a Walther PPS but it does cost less than half what a PPS would run you and I have found it to be reliable The slide is ridiculously easy to rack compared to other semis. It is very comfortable to shoot. It's a little big for conealed carry but it is on the light side and relatively thin for it's size so with the right holster it can be carried comfortably. I haven't shot a Bersa but for the money they seem to be a good buy. Since they are a blow-back design I would expect them to be more snappy recoil-wise than the PK380.

December 9, 2011, 12:32 PM	#6
Pianoguy Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 235	I agree with the above about the safety. Decocking it is something you definitley want to take your time doing and make sure that safety's on. I still don't trust it, make sure it's pointing in a safe direction and do it real slow and light. That hammer block looks awfully thin to me. Also you will forget about it - I have. After using a pistol with no safety I picked up this one and pulled the trigger a couple of times with nothing but clicks forgetting the safety was on. After a few grumbles as to what broke now, I realized I had forgot to take the safety off after I had de-cocked it (which shows that the hammer block seems to work okay - I'll still keep doing it slowly). Orginally I thought a safety was a good idea on a gun. What's a better idea is do enough training so you don't need one in the first place. I'd rather have a safe trigger than a manual safety now. Or a decocker like my Beretta's which leaves the trigger doing nothing flop as he said. But that's still a safety that you can forget about under stress. There's no way you would carry this gun with the safety on anyways, especially with a DA trigger that is heavier and longer than a revolver's. But still for my money this is not a bad handgun. It just has some oddities that you need to get used to. It is a real nice shooter. I had thought of Bersa, too, when I initially bought it. I made the final decision based on it being a Walther (and therefore had to be a cooler gun, right!) and I am not sorry. I'd probably make the same choice again.

December 9, 2011, 03:17 PM	#8
Pianoguy Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 235	I hadn't heard that anyone was promoting a gun like this using cocked and locked as a selling point. That is dumb with this gun for anyone in my opinion. And since this gun will be sold to mostly inexperienced shooters - and I admit to having been one - that is very irresponsible. All of these semi-autos have such short and light SA triggers (and some DAO only ones too that people are recommending to beginners as good conceal carry weapons) that nobody should be carrying them cocked and locked in my opinion. I admit to being a little uncomfortable with something like a Sig P238 and that 1911 action. I just recently watched a beginner who heard all kinds of good stuff about the gun but then did not ahve a clue how to unload it once it was cocked and locked. The SA trigger is great for accuracy on the range. Is it really necessary for the distances needed for self-defence? Is anybody that weak that they can't pull the trigger under stress with somebody right in their face? Starting to get a little off track here. Sorry.

December 10, 2011, 06:42 AM	#13
zombieslayer Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,198	I stand corrected. They are made by Umarex, and still have the DE stamp. Its the antler proof mark that they dont have. __________________ "An angry prophet, denouncing the hypocrisies of our time"

December 10, 2011, 08:05 AM	#14
Marquezj16 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Posts: 2,088	I had one and it was an easy shooting and accurate pistol. It had one failure to feed in which it did not chamber a round fully. I blame it on me because I let it get dirty and did not lube the slide before the range session. Overall though, I shot the heck out of it. Nothing cracked or any parts failed because of manufacturers defect. I never had problem with the safety because I practiced using it. My Beretta has a safety and I don't remember having problems with that either. It was a good pistol.

December 10, 2011, 08:11 AM	#15
zombieslayer Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,198	Fwiw- I know three or four folks who own PK's and they all love them. __________________ "An angry prophet, denouncing the hypocrisies of our time"

December 10, 2011, 11:11 AM	#16
Boatme98 Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2008 Location: Mid Tennessee Posts: 357	A note on the Bersa. I gave my sister a Thunder .380 for her first ccw piece. As you noted the slide was hard to work. Easy fix, though. The cure is to work it alot. I had her sit and work the slide over and over while watching tv at night. Rack it hundreds of times. It'll get very easy. __________________ It's good to be the king.