Would you mount a light on your 1911?

[riflemen]

I have heard this argument/discussion a few times, and for carry I would not consider a rail gun, it just doesnt make sense... Although for home defense I would not have a gun without it... As far as the argument of "it gives away your position", the lit doesnt have to be lit, lol thats why god invented switches and buttons...
This post may get long, I apologise in advance for that...


When I built my hd gun I went through a few different scenarios and I always kept a semi auto 12ga loaded with 00, under the bed... BUT then I went to a self defense class where the navy seal/personal security professional ran us through a mock home and ran us through some situations with different weapons, and also had us on both sides of the confrontation.

We tried SBR ar15's, bullpup platformed rifles, shotguns, a saw'd off side by side, a few pistols, ect.. This was an 8 hour class with 12 students and 2 teachers, so very hands on...

Time after time the full size pistol with a rail mounted strobe light, laser pointer and night sights, worked... We went from pulling it out of nightstands, safes, out from the mattress, every scenario you could think of!!! He had us run on a folding treadmill until our heart rates were jacked then lay down, and jump up to arm our self, I can tell you first hand doing it with your chest pounding is WAY more difficult that doing it relaxed...

The lesson of the class was find a pistol you are comfortable with that you can manipulate at 3am with your heart rate over 120bpm, know how to use it, right down to the light, with the gun loaded he showed us how to use the light and our non primary hand to just glow enough to see our way, how to acquire the target in the dark, how to walk softly, when to activate the strobe or laser, ect ect ect..

The class was $190 ea. and I took it because it was a day at the range that I could tell my wife was for her, she learned a lot too, and it was just as fun as educational...

I chose the 1911 platform since I am most comfortable with it, I can shoot them in my sleep, I also chose the 400 corbon round because in another class I seen what that round properly loaded does to flesh {impressive, but there are some trashy ones out there too, you need the right load in 400 corbon and it is a destroyer}. I started with a DW rail gun, had my smith install the 400 corbon kit, do some polishing, install a new trigger, some trigger work, different sights, ect. I used the streamlight tlr2 that has the invisible laser {you can only see with night vision goggles], and a set of crimson trace master grips, I spent thousands on the gun but it works perfectly..

I have shot it down range, IT ALWAYS goes bang, I have practiced with it and the system and plan is all there.. I also was taught to have a plan and let everyone in the house what to do in case of an intruder, something else useful that I learned at that class was not all home invasions happen while you are sleeping, so carrying a weapon while home during the day is a good idea, which I never do, but I do have my ccw accessible whenever I am home...

Again sorry for the long post, and I know some guys will say "what a 1911, I would never trust my life to them", well I own $20,000 worth of 1911's and I shoot 200 rounds of 45acp a week and my 1911's go bang everytime that trigger slides, my 1911s shoot the target where I point them, and in 10 years they will still be worth something, some of these new guns are worthless a year after you buy them... {not that resale value should sway your purchase of a defense weapon, but with me it does, I could buy a nice 3 bedroom house with what my collection cost me...}

Heres some of my 1911's, the hd gun is the one with the light attached and master grips, my les baer target gun is in this pick, wilson carry, ed brown special forces, ect...

[Rinspeed]

For me I much prefer a hand held light just because I don't always want the muzzle pointing to the same point as the light. With a little practice they both can become one unless you don't want them to be.

[tipoc]

No I wouldn't.

tipoc

[tony pasley]

no I would not

[HKFan9]

Quote:
there is A LOT more things that will give away your position before your light would.
Name 3

The human eye, in total darkness, can see a single candle flame miles away. No, you can't tell its a candle, but you can tell its a light. (ask a sailor)

Well for one, my bed frame makes noise, my doors generally make noise, specially this time a year when the house is cold. I have hard wood cherry steps leading to my downstairs, those will give away a mouse and anything else. Like most I would assume our houses aren't pitch black, I keep night lights in the hallways, in the two bathrooms (2nd and first floor) I keep a small light on above my sink in the kitchen (I have a metal plate and 8 screws in my leg so a lot of times I wake up to take advil / get water). The floor boards downstairs creek in the hallways and kitchen.

I can keep going. My point is if I am going looking for what went bump (litterally the worst thing anyone can do) they will know I am coming long before I am even in line of sight, with or without a light, wether its on the gun or in my reaction hand.

I also have mostly lamps in rooms, light switches in hallways, so fumbling for lamps under stress in the dark, would likely get me killed quicker.

[riflemen]

the truth of the matter is, your alarm should be blaring, that is how I am going to know someone is in my house after we all go to bed, the dogs are heavier sleepers than me, and they are far enough away where I wouldn't hear them anyway, My house is around 4500 sq ft, we are on the second floor sleeping, my alarm is more important that any gun..

I have 18 cameras, motions, invisa doors, sensors in every window and door leading to the outside, motions in every 1st floor room with outside access, ect.. Outside motion lights, there is a lot here, I can not think of one situation where the alarm would not go off if someone was entering my house after it was armed in stay mode...

But anyway that should be the first priority even before an hd weapon, minium system would be 1st floor motions, cellular outside alerts, and battery backup, I have dual cell alerts and a new system that alerts all the smart phone sin the house to the intruder, plus I have the nromal 120v power supply, an inverter powersupply, multiple battery stations, ect...

[44 AMP]

Those of you that say a WML is just a liability have never trained in the PROPER use and/or seen what its like to have a light (handheld or WML) used against you.

No, I haven't trained in the PROPER use, and I believe neither have the overwhelming majority of the people buying them, or asking about them.

And that is what makes them a liability.

If you are a trained professional, you know what to use and how, so my opinion simply doesn't apply to you.

There are more than a shipload of people who don't have "PROPER" training, and are never going to get it. I put myself in that category, as well.

Absent "PROPER" training, AND the situational awareness to USE it, I think a weapon mounted light is a greater liability than an asset.

And, considering that there are days when even trained professionals "screw up by the numbers", I think that the rest of us are at even greater disadvantage in that regard.

[mellow_c]

rifleman, it looks like there is a Sig Scorpion 1911 in that pic you posted

I think everyone has some good points here regarding the use of a WML. There are many circumstances where it would be beneficial, and many where it would put you at risk.

Here is a hypothetical scenario for you all to support the idea of using both a WML and a hand held together.... Also, even though this scenario is unlikely to happen, it is more along the lines of something I might run into with this setup, because I will not be using this setup for concealed carry or home defense.

its late at night, my girlfriend and I are camping in the mountains. As we sit watching the coals glow from our dying fire we hear something approaching from a distance... it's too dark to see what it is so I grab my hand held light and shine it in the direction of the sound... low and behold, it is a forest ranger sneaking up on us looking for underage drinkers, or possibly another camper from behind the hill looking to borrow a cup of sugar. I'm glad I didn't use my WML!
or maybe I spot a mountain lion with my hand held light, eyeing us from a distance, in which case I drop my hand held, pull out my 1911, turn off the safety, and light up the cat with my WML. Hopefully by then the cat has had enough of my screaming and my girlfriend is safely by my side clutching her shotgun.

In my opinion, a scenario such as this would not require you to have proper training on the tactical use of a WML, but rather would require having enough basic common sense to know what your dealing with before aiming your gun at a bump in the night. It would also require that you have the ability to effectively draw the gun from the holster, flip the safety off, and turn on the light. I don't see how having a WML in this type of scenario could do you wrong.

Also as others have said, just because you have a light on your gun, doesn't mean you need to turn it on.

I'm not currently planning to do any stealth ninja night time special ops light training (although I'm sure I would learn a lot and enjoy it if I did.), so instead I'll just be happy to have the light on my Sig while enjoying the outdoors, day and night. Also my local indoor range has talked about turning off the lights on one section of the range one night a week to allow for shooting with flashlights, and that could be fun.

[33GURK]

For me.

On my 1911`s no.

For when the alarm goes off and the dogs start barking in the middle of the night, yes, IMO, a light on the HD weapon of choice is a good idea.

I see no problem with those that prefer to have a light on their 1911, especially if it is their HD weapon.

[riflemen]

Yes mellow, thats a scorpion, I used to have 2 of them, the other one I sold since I hadn't shot it in a long time, that one had a black trigger, black hammer, flush cut and crowned, trigger job, single sided safety, and more..

I agree with your mock situations, BUT, I have to say I would NEVER use my wml to check out a noise in the woods, lol... If you are in the woods at night, I would hope you would have a couple flash lights minimum, not counting your wml... I could picture someone looking for the matches in their back pack using the streamlight on the end of a 5" 1911, lol...

[kutz]

Yes, on night stand gun .

[44 AMP]

having enough basic common sense to know what your dealing with before aiming your gun at a bump in the night.

The problem is that common sense seems in such short supply these days, and even people that have it usually can fail to use it (or even ignore it) in any given situation.

In an equally plausible (and highly unlikely) situation,

What if its not Ranger Rick looking to sneak up on teenage drinkers? What if its Deputy Studley CanDo No Wrong, backed up by the local "no amount of force is excessive" ninja squad, looking for the bad guy who axed three campers into bite size pieces 4 hours ago?

What if, in your haste to identify the noise, since you left the flashlight in the tent, you use the light on your 1911 (because you have it on you, and hey, you aren't going to point it right at anybody, right?)

Somebody shouts "GUN!!!" and 3 seconds later there's 18 rounds in you, 12 in your screaming girlfriend and another 30+ zipping off through the woods.

We can do any number of likely or unlikely "what ifs" and one can argue both ways with any of them. But one thing you cannot argue with is that if you do not mount a light on your weapon, then it cannot be misused through intent, or error.

[Plugged Nickle]

I just never felt the need. Besides, my 1911's are WAY too sexy for lights.

[mellow_c]

44 AMP,
I had to laugh at your scenario, not because it was funny, but because it was entertaining, and it was entertaining because it could actually happen... I guess it reminds me of watching a movie, and being the guy watching the movie I see what's about to go down and then I laugh when the guy makes the obviously poor decision. I do consider your point to be a serious one.

Fortunately for me, when I go camping I always have a modern pocket sized super bright flashlight in my pocket or on my belt and it doesn't get left in the tent or vehicle, it's on my person. I also have a backup AAA streamlight on my keychain that I use ALL the time because it's so handy and so bright!

All that being said... you were 100% correct when you said "if you do not mount a light on your weapon, then it cannot be misused through intent, or error."

Which makes me think about possessing a firearm in general... if you don't have one, you can't misuse it.

This is why it's ultimately up to the individual to be able to realistically evaluate their skills, ability, and state of mind to determine for themselves what they are capable of doing safely, and then limiting their real world options to those things that that they can do safely. Then when they wish to increase their abilities they can do so in a controlled training type environment until they are confident in their ability to use such tools and skills in a real world environment.
This obviously applies to everything from a fork, to a vehicle, to a firearm, to a WML.

Each individual needs to be smart enough to know where to draw the line if they wish to avoid causing harm to themselves or others.

[Hawg]

No way.

[riflemen]

All the what if's come down to what if you use a little common sense and training and the light saves your life or someone in your family...

I would NEVER shoot a dark figure in my house, I have 2 teenage sons and for all I know it could be a girl sneaking in or out, or one of them sneaking in or out... I have a pretty good plan for my home but nothing is perfect...

If you don't like the idea of a light, don't use one... Its that simple, 99.9% of us will never have to use our HD weapon and I pray the .01% that does, stays safe and acts responsible...

Have a plan guys, I have an awesome alarm system, state of the art, right down to video with audio in and out, I even have a ti outdoor camera {scored it from a government auction, $14K camera for $400, new in the box}... I have gone through with my kids on what to do when the alarm sounds, I have set it off and drilled them a couple times {as well as myself}, and they get it... They know if there is fire, my oldest is to go to my youngests room next door to him, while calling out for me, pull out the ladder roll from his closet, and let his brother go first then follow him down, he is to send his brother to the neighbors house and he is to stand in a safe spot near our shed so I can see that they are out if need be, if his brother is not out for some reason he is to keep his hands on top of his head...

I have drilled these things into them for years, and hopefully we never need the training BUT, as my father used to tell me when he used to have fire drills {firefighter family, lol} "if it doesn't save your life, you will teach it to your kids, if it doesn't save their life they will still teach it to their kids", I remember thinking yah right, its xmass eve and I'm freezing climbing down the side of the garage when there is no fire, BUT I do the same things to my kids now, and I am more confident in the even of an emergency they will know what to do... I sleep a little better knowing that...

Anyway, my weapon light is part of the plan, I have been on the opposite side of the strobe and it is very effective, I don't care how good you think you are, you try and shoot someone with a strobe flashing your vision in and out, and on the other hand the operator {me} of the strobe has a slow mo effect that is our advantage, pretty cool tool, I like it.. Plus my light has the invisible laser {I know I most likely will not throw my nv goggles on BUT, its still a cool option...

[geetarman]

I have no weapons lights on any of my guns.

[2ndsojourn]

Who would buy a 1911 with a rail on it anyway, let alone put a light on one?
*dons flameproof suit*

[jnichols2]

Today 08:30 AM 2ndsojourn said:
Who would buy a 1911 with a rail on it anyway, let alone put a light on one?
*dons flameproof suit*

Me, if it's a Marine M45A1. No light on the rail, but it came with the gun.

[jaytothekizzay]

Sig Scorpian is a sweet gun... I just really dont consider it a 1911

[jaytothekizzay]

I would only mount a light on a gun that never leaves my nightstand

[HKFan9]

Sig Scorpian is a sweet gun... I just really dont consider it a 1911

Well technically speaking that would be MOST of what current people think a 1911 is.

It is a 1911 pattern gun... but todays day in age they are all 1911's for laman terms.

[Idaho Spud]

I ask myself how I'd like to be in a situation, being innocent, and looking at a flashlight beam with a 45 caliber hole above it held by an amped dude with a nervous trigger finger.

Reminds me of the time I was looking at a distant hunter through my binocs who was looking RIGHT at me through his rifle scope.

[HKFan9]

Reminds me of the time I was looking at a distant hunter through my binocs who was looking RIGHT at me through his rifle scope.

Try being shot at.... during hunting season, that Crack sound sure brings your attention.

[carry on]

I would if it is your nightstand gun