Misfires with WLP primers?!

Pocketgopher · October 19, 2010, 07:25 PM

I tried reloading 45 ACP using Winchester WLP primers. The handgun is a new Springfield XDM. Factory ammo shoots fine all day long. But I am experiencing about 10 misfires per 100 shots of reloaded ammo. If I retry the misfired ammo, it shoots fine. The primers seem to be seated OK. What other issue should I be checking for? Thanks

Nowhere Man · October 19, 2010, 07:33 PM

What does the primer on a misfired round look like? Is it a solid hit with a good dent or does it look like a light strike?

Dave

flyguy958 · October 19, 2010, 07:37 PM

Primers not seated, that's my guess.

Hog Buster · October 19, 2010, 08:15 PM

The fact that they all fire on the second hit leads me to believe that you’re not seating them deep enough.

TXGunNut · October 19, 2010, 08:20 PM

Looks like it's unanimous. First strike is finishing the job of seating the primer, impact is absorbed when the primer moves forward. May be time to clean primer pockets, at the very least use more pressure then check closely for proper seating.
Had me scared for a minute, just bought a thousand WLP's.

COSteve · October 19, 2010, 08:29 PM

Actually, not unanimous. A few years ago Win LP primers were causing issues in Glock 45s. As an owner, I had a few problems myself and at first we too thought it was high primers. I double seated my primers and then checked each one by hand and still got some that would fire only after the second hit. I just switched to CCI LP primers and have never had an issue with them.

rwilson452 · October 19, 2010, 10:07 PM

I use WLP with my XD 45 no issues.

Another vote for primer seating issues.

Ideal Tool · October 19, 2010, 10:51 PM

This is an interesting post! I have an Axtel Sharps made by The Riflesmith Co. Sadly, now out of business, in .40-70 Sharps straight. I always have used Fed. large rifle primers, either std. or match, with no problems. Last year, I tried some Winchester WLR primers. I started experiancing misfires, at first I thought I had a broken firing pin, but a switch to the federals cured the problem. Pin indentation looked shallower on Win. Then I rememberd that Wincheter doesn,t make a magnum primer, and some claim their primers are hotter..could it be the primer cup is harder/thicker than other brands?

Pocketgopher · October 20, 2010, 07:56 AM

Wow. Thanks you all for your prompt replies to my inquiry! I am truly impressed! Some of the dents looked shallow, and some did not. I clean the primer pockets before I put in the primer, and try to make sure they are seated deep enough, but maybe I need more experience with these primers. I will work at it a bit more, and also try a different brand as suggested (CCI is recommended in the Speer Manual that I am using).

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel." Patrick Henry

demigod · October 20, 2010, 10:50 AM

Could be a weapon issue if you're seeing some shallow primer strike indentations. Debris in the firing pin channel possibly.

Doodlebugger45 · October 20, 2010, 10:53 AM

I've never had a problem with any pistol primers at all and I've used them all I think. But seating the primers CAN be a bit tricky at first. When I took the plunge into rifle reloading I had a few misfires with CCI primers. The tech there told me that the actual incidence of a bad primer is something like 1 out of 3 million. His advice is when you seat the primers to REALLY lean into it, especially with rifle primers. Don't worry that you are pushing too hard. That last little ummph, even if you can't feel it is important.

BigJimP · October 20, 2010, 11:07 AM

I prefer CCI primers / but about 3 months ago, I loaded 5,000 rounds of
.45 acp with Win primers - and they were all fine in my 1911's ...

But like others / I suspect either the primer seating depth ...or an issue with the firing pin spring or dirt in the firing pin channel. No matter what / I would suggest removing and cleaning the firing pin channel / maybe replacing the spring if it has not been changed in 5,000 rds or so ...

rwilson452 · October 20, 2010, 11:55 AM

I have heard that Federal primers are more sensitive and CCI primers are the "hardest". With Winchester being in the middle.

BigJimP · October 20, 2010, 12:44 PM

I think you're correct rwilson ...

but I don't think hardness of the primer has anything to do with the malfunction here ....

swmike · October 20, 2010, 01:16 PM

What primer tool are you using? I use a Lee Auto Prime. When seating primers I press until the lever bottoms out. I also check all finished rounds for signs of a primer not being fully seated. Easy to do on pistol rounds. Just put them in an empty tray that comes in a box of new ammo. Any "high" primers will stand out.

From reading the post it sounds like some cleaning of the firing pin channel might definitely be in order.

Dis-1-Shooter · October 20, 2010, 01:32 PM

To the OP. I started reloading for rifle/precision then switched to pistol. At first I would go above and beyond in my pistol brass prep. I too cleaned my primer pockets, but with a primer pocket uniformier tool by RCBS. Reloaded a good size batch in 45ACP and had a lot of light strikes. Traced the problem back to the uniformier tool, I was cutting a little too deep. The primer depth measurement was right on, but TOO much room left before primer bottomed out. Needless to say I do not clean primer pockets anymore. I hope this helps and happy reloading/shooting.

temmi · October 20, 2010, 03:26 PM

I vote for primer seating...

I use WLR and WLP primers and never had any type of misfire.

Pocketgopher · October 23, 2010, 10:22 AM

Thanks to all for great tips and advice. Yes, I may be cleaning out the primer pocket too much. I will work with some uncleaned pockets and see it that makes a difference. Also will clean out the firing pin channed etc. Picked up some CCI primers and loaded a batch with these too, so will do some comparisons to see what if any difference may occur.

Sarge · October 23, 2010, 10:50 AM

I've used Winchesters primers in small and large pistol and rifle loads for over 20 years; between five and ten thousand of them. I can't recall a single misfire with them during that time.

I'm guessing you have a gun or load problem.

totaldla · October 23, 2010, 12:34 PM

Primer pocket cleaning won't matter. There are 3 problems to check:

1) You are not seating them with sufficient force. As a rule, if you can feel the primer raised ever so slightly above the base when you run your thumb over it then it is too high. You can also see it visually and you can see the cartridge not sit flat on a table.

2) The primer height is too short. This is a manufacturing problem. SAAMI spec for primer height is 0.118" - 0.122". I have had Wolf LP Magnum primers come in at 0.116".

3) You have grossly over-trimmed the case, or over-crimped the mouth so that the cartridge is chambering way too deep, and likely only hanging on the extractor hook. On pistols with oversized extractors and firing pins (e.g. Kimbers) they will still fire. No guarantee with GI configuration. Striker fired pistols tend to be weaker yet.

I'm no 1911 expert, but I own a couple and have reloaded a bazzillion rounds over the last 20 years and I've made my share of mistakes. Hope this helps.

Pocketgopher · October 28, 2010, 09:01 PM

Thanks to all for great suggestions and tips.

I gave the WLP primers a little more umpf (I am using the RCBS Handprimer tool), and checked the primer depth level using the edge of a credit card. I found some that were still seated too high, but when I gave them a little more pressure, they went in fine.

Went to the range today and had NO misfires. I also tried some factory ammo using the same primers and they all fired perfectly. So it looks like I was not seating some of the primers deep enough.

Glad that problem is solved. Wonder what the next challenge will be? :-)

October 19, 2010, 07:25 PM	#1
Pocketgopher Junior Member Join Date: October 19, 2010 Posts: 4	Misfires with WLP primers?! I tried reloading 45 ACP using Winchester WLP primers. The handgun is a new Springfield XDM. Factory ammo shoots fine all day long. But I am experiencing about 10 misfires per 100 shots of reloaded ammo. If I retry the misfired ammo, it shoots fine. The primers seem to be seated OK. What other issue should I be checking for? Thanks

October 19, 2010, 08:15 PM	#4
Hog Buster Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2009 Location: Pointe Coupee, Louisana Posts: 772	The fact that they all fire on the second hit leads me to believe that you’re not seating them deep enough. __________________ Those who beat their guns into plows, will plow for those who don't.-Thomas Jefferson

October 19, 2010, 08:20 PM	#5
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	Looks like it's unanimous. First strike is finishing the job of seating the primer, impact is absorbed when the primer moves forward. May be time to clean primer pockets, at the very least use more pressure then check closely for proper seating. Had me scared for a minute, just bought a thousand WLP's. __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

October 19, 2010, 10:07 PM	#7
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	I use WLP with my XD 45 no issues. Another vote for primer seating issues. __________________ USNRET '61-'81

October 19, 2010, 10:51 PM	#8
Ideal Tool Junior member Join Date: October 6, 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,080	Winchester primer misfire This is an interesting post! I have an Axtel Sharps made by The Riflesmith Co. Sadly, now out of business, in .40-70 Sharps straight. I always have used Fed. large rifle primers, either std. or match, with no problems. Last year, I tried some Winchester WLR primers. I started experiancing misfires, at first I thought I had a broken firing pin, but a switch to the federals cured the problem. Pin indentation looked shallower on Win. Then I rememberd that Wincheter doesn,t make a magnum primer, and some claim their primers are hotter..could it be the primer cup is harder/thicker than other brands?

October 19, 2010, 07:33 PM	#2
Nowhere Man Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Location: North Port, FL Posts: 172	What does the primer on a misfired round look like? Is it a solid hit with a good dent or does it look like a light strike? Dave

October 19, 2010, 07:37 PM	#3
flyguy958 Senior Member Join Date: June 27, 2009 Location: SC Posts: 200	Primers not seated, that's my guess.

October 19, 2010, 08:29 PM	#6
COSteve Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2009 Posts: 1,344	Actually, not unanimous. A few years ago Win LP primers were causing issues in Glock 45s. As an owner, I had a few problems myself and at first we too thought it was high primers. I double seated my primers and then checked each one by hand and still got some that would fire only after the second hit. I just switched to CCI LP primers and have never had an issue with them.

October 20, 2010, 07:56 AM	#9
Pocketgopher Junior Member Join Date: October 19, 2010 Posts: 4	WLP Primers Wow. Thanks you all for your prompt replies to my inquiry! I am truly impressed! Some of the dents looked shallow, and some did not. I clean the primer pockets before I put in the primer, and try to make sure they are seated deep enough, but maybe I need more experience with these primers. I will work at it a bit more, and also try a different brand as suggested (CCI is recommended in the Speer Manual that I am using). "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel." Patrick Henry

October 20, 2010, 10:50 AM	#10
demigod Junior member Join Date: March 13, 2008 Location: AZ Posts: 1,129	Could be a weapon issue if you're seeing some shallow primer strike indentations. Debris in the firing pin channel possibly.

October 20, 2010, 10:53 AM	#11
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	I've never had a problem with any pistol primers at all and I've used them all I think. But seating the primers CAN be a bit tricky at first. When I took the plunge into rifle reloading I had a few misfires with CCI primers. The tech there told me that the actual incidence of a bad primer is something like 1 out of 3 million. His advice is when you seat the primers to REALLY lean into it, especially with rifle primers. Don't worry that you are pushing too hard. That last little ummph, even if you can't feel it is important.

October 20, 2010, 11:07 AM	#12
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I prefer CCI primers / but about 3 months ago, I loaded 5,000 rounds of .45 acp with Win primers - and they were all fine in my 1911's ... But like others / I suspect either the primer seating depth ...or an issue with the firing pin spring or dirt in the firing pin channel. No matter what / I would suggest removing and cleaning the firing pin channel / maybe replacing the spring if it has not been changed in 5,000 rds or so ...

October 20, 2010, 11:55 AM	#13
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	I have heard that Federal primers are more sensitive and CCI primers are the "hardest". With Winchester being in the middle. __________________ USNRET '61-'81

October 20, 2010, 12:44 PM	#14
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I think you're correct rwilson ... but I don't think hardness of the primer has anything to do with the malfunction here ....

October 20, 2010, 01:16 PM	#15
swmike Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2005 Location: Marysville, WA Posts: 670	What primer tool are you using? I use a Lee Auto Prime. When seating primers I press until the lever bottoms out. I also check all finished rounds for signs of a primer not being fully seated. Easy to do on pistol rounds. Just put them in an empty tray that comes in a box of new ammo. Any "high" primers will stand out. From reading the post it sounds like some cleaning of the firing pin channel might definitely be in order. __________________ My definition of Gun Control--- A steady grip and hitting your target. "In God we trust, all others are suspects." "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying, either I won't need any more, or more won't be of any help". ____________________________________________

October 20, 2010, 01:32 PM	#16
Dis-1-Shooter Member Join Date: February 25, 2010 Posts: 47	To the OP. I started reloading for rifle/precision then switched to pistol. At first I would go above and beyond in my pistol brass prep. I too cleaned my primer pockets, but with a primer pocket uniformier tool by RCBS. Reloaded a good size batch in 45ACP and had a lot of light strikes. Traced the problem back to the uniformier tool, I was cutting a little too deep. The primer depth measurement was right on, but TOO much room left before primer bottomed out. Needless to say I do not clean primer pockets anymore. I hope this helps and happy reloading/shooting.

October 20, 2010, 03:26 PM	#17
temmi Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 531	I vote for primer seating... I use WLR and WLP primers and never had any type of misfire.

October 23, 2010, 10:22 AM	#18
Pocketgopher Junior Member Join Date: October 19, 2010 Posts: 4	WLP Primers Thanks to all for great tips and advice. Yes, I may be cleaning out the primer pocket too much. I will work with some uncleaned pockets and see it that makes a difference. Also will clean out the firing pin channed etc. Picked up some CCI primers and loaded a batch with these too, so will do some comparisons to see what if any difference may occur.

October 23, 2010, 10:50 AM	#19
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	I've used Winchesters primers in small and large pistol and rifle loads for over 20 years; between five and ten thousand of them. I can't recall a single misfire with them during that time. I'm guessing you have a gun or load problem. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

October 23, 2010, 12:34 PM	#20
totaldla Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2009 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 1,295	Primer pocket cleaning won't matter. There are 3 problems to check: 1) You are not seating them with sufficient force. As a rule, if you can feel the primer raised ever so slightly above the base when you run your thumb over it then it is too high. You can also see it visually and you can see the cartridge not sit flat on a table. 2) The primer height is too short. This is a manufacturing problem. SAAMI spec for primer height is 0.118" - 0.122". I have had Wolf LP Magnum primers come in at 0.116". 3) You have grossly over-trimmed the case, or over-crimped the mouth so that the cartridge is chambering way too deep, and likely only hanging on the extractor hook. On pistols with oversized extractors and firing pins (e.g. Kimbers) they will still fire. No guarantee with GI configuration. Striker fired pistols tend to be weaker yet. I'm no 1911 expert, but I own a couple and have reloaded a bazzillion rounds over the last 20 years and I've made my share of mistakes. Hope this helps. __________________ Lee Auto Bench Prime Castor Oil Case Lube

October 28, 2010, 09:01 PM	#21
Pocketgopher Junior Member Join Date: October 19, 2010 Posts: 4	Seems the primer issue is now solved Thanks to all for great suggestions and tips. I gave the WLP primers a little more umpf (I am using the RCBS Handprimer tool), and checked the primer depth level using the edge of a credit card. I found some that were still seated too high, but when I gave them a little more pressure, they went in fine. Went to the range today and had NO misfires. I also tried some factory ammo using the same primers and they all fired perfectly. So it looks like I was not seating some of the primers deep enough. Glad that problem is solved. Wonder what the next challenge will be? :-)