Savage .243 model 99c tang safety problem

Murder · June 22, 2006, 12:04 PM

Hi all,

I'm new to "thefiringline". I am here because i recently purchased and refinished a 1946 model 1899 (99c) Savage in .243 Winchester. It is a lever gun with a clip (don't have clip....anybody?). Anyways, my problem is with the safety. It is a shotgun style tang safety. I can slide the tang all the way back and it will lock the lever so that a round cannot be chambered, but if a round is already chambered, the safety can't slide all the way back, thus not rendering the weapon safe (it can still shoot). Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.

leadbutt · June 22, 2006, 04:48 PM

Pop over to www.savageshooters.net and talk with them,, some thing dosen't sound right tho ,, post says 1946 and magizine{clip} didn't think they had them that early

**Mike Irwin** · June 22, 2006, 05:05 PM

Your rifle is a lot later than you think it is.

The .243 Winchester round wasn't introduced commercially until 1955.

Savage didn't start chambering it until 1956.

And Savage didn't put it into a clip-fed Model 99 until 1965 (the 99C's first year of production) or 1966.

That, however, isn't really important.

What's important is that your safety isn't working.

My guess is that when you put the safety mechanism back together (I take it from your message that you had the gun pretty much apart) you somehow swapped some of the parts around, or something in the actual safety mechanism is broken.

I can't find my exploded view of the 99C right now, unfortunately, but my suggestion is that you take it to a gunsmith.

Murder · June 22, 2006, 05:14 PM

Sorry guys, I typed in the serial number on a savage site and it came up as 1946. I too read that .243 wasn't introduced until 1955. I also will apologize for unintentionally misleading you. I have not taken the whole action apart, just removed stock, sanded and refinished, and steel wooled the rest. Could it just be wear? It does not look like it was abused. I got it for $100, so if I have to put a little into it, that is ok. Just for the record there appears to be no damage to the pieces of the safety, including springs.

guntotin_fool · June 22, 2006, 10:52 PM

Do you have a digital camera? post a pic showing the rifle from the side with the stock removed. I think you got the inside piece in backwards or got something in the way when you had the stock off.

Murder · June 23, 2006, 01:23 AM

I will definitely take a few pictures and post them in 12 hours or so. Just so you know, the problem existed before I took anything apart.

Murder · June 23, 2006, 02:08 PM

Hi guys,

Pics are coming in a few minutes. I forgot to mention that when the safety locks the lever it can only do it uncocked, with the trigger pushed forward.

Murder · June 23, 2006, 02:28 PM

Here are some pics...more coming

Murder · June 23, 2006, 02:35 PM

more pics

**Mike Irwin** · June 23, 2006, 03:10 PM

"I forgot to mention that when the safety locks the lever it can only do it uncocked, with the trigger pushed forward."

That sounds to me like the problem is in the trigger, and not the safety.

I'm wondering if the trigger spring is either broken or out of place.

Murder · June 23, 2006, 06:06 PM

Here is the schematic for it.

Murder · June 23, 2006, 08:05 PM

Any idea how to check the trigger/spring assembly?

cntryboy1289 · June 23, 2006, 08:43 PM

A lot of time, when someone who is inexperienced at trigger jobs tries to handle the job, they leave the gun unsafe when the safety doesn't completely block the sear from dumping the striker. I would advise you to take it to a smith and let him fix this for you. The safety must completely block the sear from allowing the striker to fall and what is going on with yours I believe is the safety is just a tad too short since the sear's geometry is off just a little. I could be wrong on this, but it is a common occurance that a lot of guns end up with and are just not taken care of. Hope you get it fixed soon.

One thing about the savage 99 in .243 is they develop headspace quickly with the round. It is a very common issue with this caliber. The problem is the presssure of the round is a higher than what the rifle was designed for. I would let the smith take a look at it and put a gauge in it and check it before I do much firing of the gun.

Murder · June 23, 2006, 11:13 PM

I agree. I haven't shot this rifle yet, and do not plan to until it is checked out. Any idea of a ballpark figure on what it might cost to have it fixed?

guntotin_fool · June 24, 2006, 01:49 AM

Hi I took my 243 model A reinto with the tang safety apart and looked at your pics as well as tried to figure out how i could make it act like yours.

I believe that the safety arm.( the shiny silver colored stamping that reaches from the safety button down to the action itself and has a little prong that egages the lever to prevent operation, has either been altered or damaged to prevent the safety arm from egaging the trigger as designed.

I also believe that your trigger spring may be damaged as the trigger should not have to pressed forward by hand to enable the safety arm to slide at all. From the pictures you sent, The trigger return spring appears to be in the correct place, but on all of mine, when the trigger is released it is firmly pulled to the front by the trigger spring. If I pull and hold the trigger back the safety button is unable to move, but never do i have to push the trigger foward to enable the safety arm from having clearance to engage the trigger/sear.

I would consider taking more pics, saving them to your computer and then removing the lever, the bolt stop (in picture 0024,the little screw that holds that small piece of steel at the farthest rear most part of the action direct infront of the mounting boss for the rear stock screw). Removing that screw and block will allow the bolt to slide far enough to the rear to disengage from the action. Then examine the trigger spring better to see if some obstruction is preventing it from doing its job, or if some crud or debris is preventing the trigger from enjoying its full range of motion. Perhaps in cleaning the rifle or if someone was not careful, you encountered some crud which has now inhibited the safety arms range of motion.

Murder · June 26, 2006, 02:20 PM

Hi guys,

I was away on the weekend. I have not yet tried what guntotinfool recommended. I have however been blessed with a sunny day, so i had a look in the light. I have figured out where the hangup is, as well as determined the trigger spring is functioning. I have posted a picture. The picture is a schematic. The bottom of the safety slide "A" is hanging up on the back of the trigger "B". Hopefully i can do this myself.

Murder · June 27, 2006, 03:25 PM

Just used compressed air and blew it out...still no luck

guntotin_fool · June 27, 2006, 05:32 PM

If you can see where the trigger and the safety arm interface, Is there any peening or deformation there? The last thing i want to suggest is that you start up the dremel. but look at where the parts are supposed to meet and see if you can find a burr or a bent lip that will prohibit the arm from looking out the trigger. If you need more let us know.

tcov · July 2, 2006, 08:10 PM

I had problems with the safety on my 99c 22-250 shortly after i bought it at a gunshow. It turned out that little spring on the bottom of the part you marked 'A' had come out of place. I figured out how to put it back in place but noticed the quality control and finish on those 99c was not that great. Look at the trigger sear engagement also as some people stoned them down trying to improve the trigger pull and made them unsafe. I have a 243 99c and it is very nice and much better finished than the earlier 22-250. The 243 is a great shooter, good luck. Magazines run $30 to $40 on Ebay if you're patient.

Murder · July 6, 2006, 02:01 PM

Thanks for all the help guys. I still haven't figured this out. I have been rather busy, and want to check some of the things you all have mentioned. To check the trigger/sear, can I do this with them in place?, where exactly would they be stoned down, if they were?

cntryboy1289 · July 6, 2006, 03:23 PM

I think when you get it figured out you will find that the safety isn't blocking the sear completely which means it is a tad too short. I think you will need to stretch the leg of the safety and not do any stoning since this is what might have caused the problem to begin with.

A lot of times when someone stones on the surfaces of the sear and hammers of guns,s they change the geometry of the set up which causes the problem you are experiencing. This is why so many guns get brought to a smith to fix a problem to begin with. A lot of smiths cause the same problem, but the good ones can fix the problem.

Murder · July 7, 2006, 11:33 PM

How would I stretch the safety arm? what part do I stretch?

cntryboy1289 · July 8, 2006, 02:20 AM

I use my hammer and an anvil pad of my vise when I need to stretch parts such as this. Lay it down flat on the anvil section and then with a hmmer, strike a blow the actually lands in the direction that you need to strecth the metal in. I usually draw it towards me which is much easier to control. Flip it over and do the other side. Once you get it strecthed long enough that it actually blocks the sear and prevents the striker from falling, I then hammer the sides smooth to remove the ripples you create in the part.

Without actaully seeing the gun, it's hard to say offhand if this is the cure, but I would think that this is the problem since the tang safety on this gun has the ailment a good bit of the time. If you stretch the part too far, simply file it back slightly to fit it correctly. Good luck with it.

Murder · July 12, 2006, 05:03 PM

It's Fixed. I filed down about a millimetre on the bottom of the safety arm where it engages the back of the trigger. It now completely blocks the trigger from releasing the sear. I took the trigger to a local gun shop (not gunsmiths) and they agreed that it had been filed slightly. Anyways, I have even smacked the gun around and hit the butt on the ground. It stays safe. Thanks for all the help guys. I couldn't have even took it apart without the advice from guntotin_fool.

June 22, 2006, 12:04 PM	#1
Murder Member Join Date: June 22, 2006 Posts: 20	Savage .243 model 99c tang safety problem Hi all, I'm new to "thefiringline". I am here because i recently purchased and refinished a 1946 model 1899 (99c) Savage in .243 Winchester. It is a lever gun with a clip (don't have clip....anybody?). Anyways, my problem is with the safety. It is a shotgun style tang safety. I can slide the tang all the way back and it will lock the lever so that a round cannot be chambered, but if a round is already chambered, the safety can't slide all the way back, thus not rendering the weapon safe (it can still shoot). Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.

June 22, 2006, 04:48 PM	#2
leadbutt Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2002 Location: Tidewater,Virginia Posts: 289	Pop over to www.savageshooters.net and talk with them,, some thing dosen't sound right tho ,, post says 1946 and magizine{clip} didn't think they had them that early __________________ "I am always willing to learn,but not always willing to be taught" Sir Winston Churchill

June 22, 2006, 05:05 PM	#3
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Your rifle is a lot later than you think it is. The .243 Winchester round wasn't introduced commercially until 1955. Savage didn't start chambering it until 1956. And Savage didn't put it into a clip-fed Model 99 until 1965 (the 99C's first year of production) or 1966. That, however, isn't really important. What's important is that your safety isn't working. My guess is that when you put the safety mechanism back together (I take it from your message that you had the gun pretty much apart) you somehow swapped some of the parts around, or something in the actual safety mechanism is broken. I can't find my exploded view of the 99C right now, unfortunately, but my suggestion is that you take it to a gunsmith. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 22, 2006, 05:14 PM	#4
Murder Member Join Date: June 22, 2006 Posts: 20	My bad Sorry guys, I typed in the serial number on a savage site and it came up as 1946. I too read that .243 wasn't introduced until 1955. I also will apologize for unintentionally misleading you. I have not taken the whole action apart, just removed stock, sanded and refinished, and steel wooled the rest. Could it just be wear? It does not look like it was abused. I got it for $100, so if I have to put a little into it, that is ok. Just for the record there appears to be no damage to the pieces of the safety, including springs.

June 23, 2006, 01:23 AM	#6
Murder Member Join Date: June 22, 2006 Posts: 20	Will take pictures in 12 hours time I will definitely take a few pictures and post them in 12 hours or so. Just so you know, the problem existed before I took anything apart.

June 22, 2006, 10:52 PM	#5
guntotin_fool Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2004 Posts: 1,446	Do you have a digital camera? post a pic showing the rifle from the side with the stock removed. I think you got the inside piece in backwards or got something in the way when you had the stock off.

June 23, 2006, 02:08 PM	#7
Murder Member Join Date: June 22, 2006 Posts: 20	Forgot to add something Hi guys, Pics are coming in a few minutes. I forgot to mention that when the safety locks the lever it can only do it uncocked, with the trigger pushed forward.

June 23, 2006, 03:10 PM	#10
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	"I forgot to mention that when the safety locks the lever it can only do it uncocked, with the trigger pushed forward." That sounds to me like the problem is in the trigger, and not the safety. I'm wondering if the trigger spring is either broken or out of place. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 23, 2006, 08:05 PM	#12
Murder Member Join Date: June 22, 2006 Posts: 20	Trigger Any idea how to check the trigger/spring assembly?

June 23, 2006, 08:43 PM	#13
cntryboy1289 Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2004 Location: Ms Posts: 1,160	Has it had a trigger job done A lot of time, when someone who is inexperienced at trigger jobs tries to handle the job, they leave the gun unsafe when the safety doesn't completely block the sear from dumping the striker. I would advise you to take it to a smith and let him fix this for you. The safety must completely block the sear from allowing the striker to fall and what is going on with yours I believe is the safety is just a tad too short since the sear's geometry is off just a little. I could be wrong on this, but it is a common occurance that a lot of guns end up with and are just not taken care of. Hope you get it fixed soon. One thing about the savage 99 in .243 is they develop headspace quickly with the round. It is a very common issue with this caliber. The problem is the presssure of the round is a higher than what the rifle was designed for. I would let the smith take a look at it and put a gauge in it and check it before I do much firing of the gun.

June 23, 2006, 11:13 PM	#14
Murder Member Join Date: June 22, 2006 Posts: 20	Thanks for the advice I agree. I haven't shot this rifle yet, and do not plan to until it is checked out. Any idea of a ballpark figure on what it might cost to have it fixed?

June 24, 2006, 01:49 AM	#15
guntotin_fool Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2004 Posts: 1,446	Hi I took my 243 model A reinto with the tang safety apart and looked at your pics as well as tried to figure out how i could make it act like yours. I believe that the safety arm.( the shiny silver colored stamping that reaches from the safety button down to the action itself and has a little prong that egages the lever to prevent operation, has either been altered or damaged to prevent the safety arm from egaging the trigger as designed. I also believe that your trigger spring may be damaged as the trigger should not have to pressed forward by hand to enable the safety arm to slide at all. From the pictures you sent, The trigger return spring appears to be in the correct place, but on all of mine, when the trigger is released it is firmly pulled to the front by the trigger spring. If I pull and hold the trigger back the safety button is unable to move, but never do i have to push the trigger foward to enable the safety arm from having clearance to engage the trigger/sear. I would consider taking more pics, saving them to your computer and then removing the lever, the bolt stop (in picture 0024,the little screw that holds that small piece of steel at the farthest rear most part of the action direct infront of the mounting boss for the rear stock screw). Removing that screw and block will allow the bolt to slide far enough to the rear to disengage from the action. Then examine the trigger spring better to see if some obstruction is preventing it from doing its job, or if some crud or debris is preventing the trigger from enjoying its full range of motion. Perhaps in cleaning the rifle or if someone was not careful, you encountered some crud which has now inhibited the safety arms range of motion.

June 27, 2006, 03:25 PM	#17
Murder Member Join Date: June 22, 2006 Posts: 20	Used compressed air Just used compressed air and blew it out...still no luck

June 27, 2006, 05:32 PM	#18
guntotin_fool Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2004 Posts: 1,446	If you can see where the trigger and the safety arm interface, Is there any peening or deformation there? The last thing i want to suggest is that you start up the dremel. but look at where the parts are supposed to meet and see if you can find a burr or a bent lip that will prohibit the arm from looking out the trigger. If you need more let us know.

July 2, 2006, 08:10 PM	#19
tcov Member Join Date: June 17, 2004 Location: OLYMPIC PENINSULA WA Posts: 51	I had problems with the safety on my 99c 22-250 shortly after i bought it at a gunshow. It turned out that little spring on the bottom of the part you marked 'A' had come out of place. I figured out how to put it back in place but noticed the quality control and finish on those 99c was not that great. Look at the trigger sear engagement also as some people stoned them down trying to improve the trigger pull and made them unsafe. I have a 243 99c and it is very nice and much better finished than the earlier 22-250. The 243 is a great shooter, good luck. Magazines run $30 to $40 on Ebay if you're patient.

July 6, 2006, 02:01 PM	#20
Murder Member Join Date: June 22, 2006 Posts: 20	trigger/sear engagement Thanks for all the help guys. I still haven't figured this out. I have been rather busy, and want to check some of the things you all have mentioned. To check the trigger/sear, can I do this with them in place?, where exactly would they be stoned down, if they were?

July 6, 2006, 03:23 PM	#21
cntryboy1289 Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2004 Location: Ms Posts: 1,160	More on it I think when you get it figured out you will find that the safety isn't blocking the sear completely which means it is a tad too short. I think you will need to stretch the leg of the safety and not do any stoning since this is what might have caused the problem to begin with. A lot of times when someone stones on the surfaces of the sear and hammers of guns,s they change the geometry of the set up which causes the problem you are experiencing. This is why so many guns get brought to a smith to fix a problem to begin with. A lot of smiths cause the same problem, but the good ones can fix the problem.

July 7, 2006, 11:33 PM	#22
Murder Member Join Date: June 22, 2006 Posts: 20	how? How would I stretch the safety arm? what part do I stretch?

July 8, 2006, 02:20 AM	#23
cntryboy1289 Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2004 Location: Ms Posts: 1,160	with a hammer and anvil I use my hammer and an anvil pad of my vise when I need to stretch parts such as this. Lay it down flat on the anvil section and then with a hmmer, strike a blow the actually lands in the direction that you need to strecth the metal in. I usually draw it towards me which is much easier to control. Flip it over and do the other side. Once you get it strecthed long enough that it actually blocks the sear and prevents the striker from falling, I then hammer the sides smooth to remove the ripples you create in the part. Without actaully seeing the gun, it's hard to say offhand if this is the cure, but I would think that this is the problem since the tang safety on this gun has the ailment a good bit of the time. If you stretch the part too far, simply file it back slightly to fit it correctly. Good luck with it.

July 12, 2006, 05:03 PM	#24
Murder Member Join Date: June 22, 2006 Posts: 20	It's Fixed It's Fixed. I filed down about a millimetre on the bottom of the safety arm where it engages the back of the trigger. It now completely blocks the trigger from releasing the sear. I took the trigger to a local gun shop (not gunsmiths) and they agreed that it had been filed slightly. Anyways, I have even smacked the gun around and hit the butt on the ground. It stays safe. Thanks for all the help guys. I couldn't have even took it apart without the advice from guntotin_fool.