Interesting, scary, SD situation...

Sixer · November 6, 2009, 12:50 PM

This happened not too long ago to a member of the Missouri HomeTown Forum on AR15.com...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.htm...=381800&page=1

Long story short from his brother -

Quote:

My bro, nascar3n8fan was at a lawyer friend's downtown Jefferson City office for a get together with some friends. The robber, a convicted violent felon, held 6 men at gun point and ordered them face down on the floor and began robbing them. nascar3n8fan was shot three times once in the chest above his heart and once in each hand while drawing his conceal carry weapon. His hands and arms are very badly injured and will require much surgery to repair. Despite the damage he was still able to get off a shot which vertually took off the attackers hand ending the confrontation. His chest wound luckily missed vital organs and exited.

http://www.newstribune.com/articles/...atenight09.txt

To me, the whole situation sounds pretty amazing. Justin (nascar3n8fan) made a swift decision to act, even though he knew that getting himself shot was almost unavoidable.

What caught my attention as well was his comment about thinking his gun (a DW 1911 in .45acp) had jammed at the worst possible moment...

Quote:

All of the shots were fired after the left hand had been hit. All but maybe one was fired, plus clearing the chamber once, was after both hands had been hit. Cleared the chamber because I thought I had a jam in a firearm that had never jammed on me before. Turned out that due to the right hand injury, I didn't have a tight enough grip to engage the grip safety. Anyway, ducked behind the conference table for cover while clearing and came back up for two more shots (he was still shooting when I popped back up).

He took one of my .45 rounds to the left hand and had one pass through the front of his sweatshirt and t-shirt without touching him.

I guess I had never considered this being an issue with a 1911 or any other firearm with a grip safety (i.e. H&K P7, XD...)

Anyhow, just thought I would share this and put it up for discussion.

DISCLAIMER - Towards the end of the thread there are pics posted of the bullet wounds he sustained which are fairly graphic.

Jim March · November 6, 2009, 01:37 PM

Getting hit in the hands happens a LOT when the opponent target-fixates on the threat (read: gun). He'd have been better off with a DA wheelgun.

Just caught another detail: BOTH sides in this fight were hit in the hands.

MLeake · November 6, 2009, 02:11 PM

This is a good reason for making sure you practice at least a little bit with the weak hand during range sessions, in case something happens to your primary hand.

kraigwy · November 6, 2009, 02:23 PM

I disconnected the grip safty on my 1911a1

ZeSpectre · November 6, 2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

This is a good reason for making sure you practice at least a little bit with the weak hand during range sessions, in case something happens to your primary hand.

Amen brother. This is yet another in a LONG line of examples as to why I push training in "all four".

Strong hand single handed
Strong hand two handed
Weak hand single handed
Weak hand two handed

Ryder · November 6, 2009, 08:14 PM

I had it happen during practice when I first bought an XD. The grip safety is significantly smaller than the ones I use to on my custom 1911s. Haven't had a problem since discovering that and adjusting my technique.

Anybody that has shot enough should be familiar with such potential problems?

I've never done it but some people "pin" their grip safeties in place. Red Green probably has his wrapped with duct tape

MTT TL · November 7, 2009, 08:58 AM

The big thing is never to give up, even when things look their worst.

Here is hoping for speedy recovery for the victim.

Quote:

Patrick Evans, 37, who was released from prison two weeks ago

and maybe no parole, ever again?

ZeSpectre · November 7, 2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Red Green probably has his wrapped with duct tape

"keep your stick on the ice"

**JohnKSa** · November 7, 2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Getting hit in the hands happens a LOT when the opponent target-fixates on the threat (read: gun). He'd have been better off with a DA wheelgun.

In this particular case, yes. However, as a counterpoint, Gordon McNeill, in the Miami FBI shootout was neutralized when his DA revolver ran dry because he was shot in the hand and the injury prevented him from reloading it. He was shot and paralyzed while trying to access a second firearm.

McNeill would have been far better served by a simple-to-operate, easy to reload, high-capacity semi-automatic handgun.

The point being that in retrospect it's easy to argue how weapon choice could have been better tailored to the circumstances of a particular incident. The problem is that without knowing the circumstances in advance it's impossible to pick the ideal weapon in advance.

markj · November 9, 2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

it's impossible to pick the ideal weapon in advance

If only the Thompson full auto was a CCW

with the 100 round mag.

November 6, 2009, 01:37 PM	#2
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Getting hit in the hands happens a LOT when the opponent target-fixates on the threat (read: gun). He'd have been better off with a DA wheelgun. Just caught another detail: BOTH sides in this fight were hit in the hands. __________________ Jim March

November 6, 2009, 02:11 PM	#3
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Another thought This is a good reason for making sure you practice at least a little bit with the weak hand during range sessions, in case something happens to your primary hand.

November 6, 2009, 02:23 PM	#4
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	I disconnected the grip safty on my 1911a1 __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

November 6, 2009, 08:14 PM	#6
Ryder Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 222	I had it happen during practice when I first bought an XD. The grip safety is significantly smaller than the ones I use to on my custom 1911s. Haven't had a problem since discovering that and adjusting my technique. Anybody that has shot enough should be familiar with such potential problems? I've never done it but some people "pin" their grip safeties in place. Red Green probably has his wrapped with duct tape