Load help with 9mm 140 gr lead, Autocomp, Unique or Power Pistol

serf 'rett · August 15, 2014, 04:54 PM

Need some help on developing a load with some round nose lead bullets I recently bought at an event. Guy said they were 135 grain. Price was good so I got 500 to try (then won another 250 at the prize drawing).

The bullet samples I weighed ranged from 140.0 grains to 140.8 grains, which puts me between the 124/125/130 grain information and the 147 grain loads. My powder pile includes W231 (which I think is too fast for this bullet weight), Unique, Power Pistol and some recently purchased AutoComp. Some significant differences in charge weights between 125 grain and 147 grain loads.

It appears the overall length will be in the neighborhood of 1.105” to 1.110”. Primers will be CCI or Tula. Don’t own a chronograph, so I can’t measure velocity.

Anybody got any ideas or loads? Any of you 9mm casters dropping bullets in this weight division? Should I just use 147 grain load info?

Thanks

Nick_C_S · August 15, 2014, 06:31 PM

I don't have any direct data for you to use. Sounds like kind of an unusual bullet.

If it were me, I would start with 147g data. Seating depth is the primary issue in terms of pressure. OAL is an indirect measurement of seating depth. I would measure the overall length of the bullet itself and compare it to a "known good" - i.e., a similar as I could get bullet that I already use. It would at least give me a starting point. I would also perform a "plunk test," on the barrel that's going to shoot it. This would most likely determine my OAL. I would proceed from there - with 147g data. That's how I would approach it.

I have no experience with AutoComp, but I have extensive experience with W231, Unique, and Power Pistol. All three would make good rounds. You are fortunate to have such an inventory.

W231 is not too fast. It would, however, have a steeper pressure curve than your medium speed burners (Uni, P'P'stl). If that makes you nervy; by all means, start with the Unique. The trade-off of W231 on the good side is consistency. I'm not recommending W231 specifically - that's up to you. But W231 likes heavy bullets and propels them with particular consistency. No, you won't have top velocity; but you'd have really consistent general purpose shooters.

serf 'rett · August 16, 2014, 11:41 AM

Thanks Nick. Good points.

I generally determine my desired OAL using the "tightest" chamber of my 9mm pistols. If a bullet/brass combination will fit in my Springfield XDm, it will fit the others. Lead bullets are set in range of a 0.005" jump to touching the lands; with some possible variance based on bullet uniformity.
I will do some math on the seating depth. Can’t use the Berry’s hollow backed for those calculations, but I can get some baseline measurements off 124 Hornady XTP and MO Bullet Co. Smallball bullets I have used for other loads.

I do like W-231. I had some hesitation on trying it for two reasons. One is the load data I could find either didn’t have the powder listed for 147 grain bullets or the min/max range was so tight, as in just a few tenths difference between min and max, that I didn’t want to experiment with a totally new bullet with a different weight (140 grains). The second reason is simply I haven’t seen any W-231 for sale lately and my stock is dwindling. The local gun store recently blessed me with 4 pounds of AutoComp at their cost of around $19/pound, so I’m thinking AutoComp will be part of the upcoming reloads and testing.

Nick_C_S · August 16, 2014, 08:58 PM

Quote:

I generally determine my desired OAL using the "tightest" chamber of my 9mm pistols. If a bullet/brass combination will fit in my Springfield XDm, it will fit the others. Lead bullets are set in range of a 0.005" jump to touching the lands; with some possible variance based on bullet uniformity.
I will do some math on the seating depth. Can’t use the Berry’s hollow backed for those calculations, but I can get some baseline measurements off 124 Hornady XTP and MO Bullet Co. Smallball bullets I have used for other loads.

. . .^^ You obviously know what you're doing with OAL. You'll find the right length.

Quote:

I do like W-231.

Who doesn't?

Quote:

I haven’t seen any W-231 for sale lately and my stock is dwindling.

I haven't seen any since November 2012 - just before the madness hit. To this day, I seriously regret not getting any that day. I had about 2 lbs at the time, and thought that more than enough. Fast forward 21 months, and I have just over a pound, and have been in conservation mode with it for well over a year. Frustrating.

Quote:

I had some hesitation on trying it for two reasons. One is the load data I could find either didn’t have the powder listed for 147 grain bullets or the min/max range was so tight, as in just a few tenths difference between min and max, that I didn’t want to experiment with a totally new bullet with a different weight (140 grains).

. . . ^^ Makes perfect sense.

Quote:

The local gun store recently blessed me with 4 pounds of AutoComp at their cost of around $19/pound, so I’m thinking AutoComp will be part of the upcoming reloads and testing.

4 pounds? Yeah, I'm thinking so too

zxcvbob · August 16, 2014, 09:11 PM

I shoot 135 grain cast bullets with Bullseye. It works well. I'm not going to say what the charge weight is because it's +P or higher.

Unique should be good too; probably about 4.5 grains, but that depends a *lot* on the bullet seating depth.

Quote:

It appears the overall length will be in the neighborhood of 1.105” to 1.110”. Primers will be CCI or Tula. Don’t own a chronograph, so I can’t measure velocity.

That sounds short to me. Are you sure you don't mean 1.15"?

serf 'rett · August 19, 2014, 02:04 PM

zxcvbob,
Lyman Pistol and Revolver shows a maximum of 4.5 Unique under a FMJ bullet. With these being lead, estimated BHN of 14, I’ll back down the maximum a tad under 4.5 grains, probably around 4.2, which puts me slightly below Alliant’s online 4.3 grains maximum.

My first guess of OAL was based on my length for a similar looking bullet. I last night had time to determine the OAL for these new bullets. It appears my OAL will be 1.165” with a 0.005” set back off the lands.

The 140 grain average weight is really got me scratching my head. IF the pressure curve was linear, then I could simply use linear interpolation between two known points, using data for 124/125 grain and 147 grain bullets, but can’t do that when the curve is a curve. (I tried linear interpolation and got squirrelly numbers)

In theory, I should be able to use 147 grain data with a small bump since the bullets are 7 grains less. I normally load a series for initial testing because the range is an hour drive away. While I’ll test from low to high, I’m interested in the top end loads, because I suspect the AutoComp, Unique and Power Pistol will burn better with the pressure increase.

WESHOOT2 · August 20, 2014, 05:04 PM

Most highly recommend a start of 5.0g Power Pistol.

mchapman · August 20, 2014, 11:32 PM

If I were you I'd use the Auto Comp, it's almost the same as CFE Pistol, both of these I think will be the new universal powders that cover most common pistol calibers used today, like unique and bullseye was in the past, they are also alot cleaner burning.

serf 'rett · August 21, 2014, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Most highly recommend a start of 5.0g Power Pistol.

WESHOOT2 -What bullet are you using? Lead? FMJ? Plated?

5.0 of Power Pistol is the max shown in Lyman and Speer with FMJ type bullets. Hornady goes a little higher at 5.1. Lee wins the high charge weight prize with 5.2/min to 5.7/max (34000psi) with XTP.

Since I'm running a lead bullet, I'm backing down just a little. Loaded up the following for testing:

Power Pistol, OAL 1.165", series 4.2 to 4.8
AutoComp, OAL 1.165", series 3.4 to 4.0
Unique, OAL 1.165", series 3.2 to 4.0

Hope to test fire these in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for the input.

WESHOOT2 · August 22, 2014, 02:29 PM

I load Power Pistol in 9x19 using 115g JHP from R-P, 121g/123/124/125/131/135/145/147g lead from numerous makers, plated bullets from Speer or Rainier weighing 115g/124/151g, and jacketed bullets from many makers weighing 124g/125/130/135/147g.

I use CCI and Federal and Winchester and Remington standard and magnum small pistol primers, and small rifle primers from CCI and Winchester and small rifle magnum from Remington.

I load 9x19 in new and used cases from IMI and Speer and Federal and Winchester and Remington and Starline and Gecco and many others.

I normally run 4.6g under a 147g lead or a R-P FMJ.
Under the 124/125g lead I normally use 5.4--5.9g, based on goal.

I have used many lbs in the 9x19, and find it a favorite (along with WAP and 3N37 and HS6).
I also note it finds favor amongst Bullseye shooters at 6.0g under a 121g Hornady HAP.

dwhite · August 22, 2014, 03:34 PM

Wondering if you have measured the diameter of these?

Are they 0.356" for 9mm or 0.358" for .38 special?

Just the 140 grain weight makes me wonder?

All the Best,
D. White

WESHOOT2 · August 22, 2014, 04:18 PM

They're probably .356", BUT they may have a wee bit more lead in them (heavier than advertised = 'softer'; lighter than advertised = 'harder').

August 15, 2014, 04:54 PM	#1
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	Load help with 9mm 140 gr lead, Autocomp, Unique or Power Pistol Need some help on developing a load with some round nose lead bullets I recently bought at an event. Guy said they were 135 grain. Price was good so I got 500 to try (then won another 250 at the prize drawing). The bullet samples I weighed ranged from 140.0 grains to 140.8 grains, which puts me between the 124/125/130 grain information and the 147 grain loads. My powder pile includes W231 (which I think is too fast for this bullet weight), Unique, Power Pistol and some recently purchased AutoComp. Some significant differences in charge weights between 125 grain and 147 grain loads. It appears the overall length will be in the neighborhood of 1.105” to 1.110”. Primers will be CCI or Tula. Don’t own a chronograph, so I can’t measure velocity. Anybody got any ideas or loads? Any of you 9mm casters dropping bullets in this weight division? Should I just use 147 grain load info? Thanks __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.

August 15, 2014, 06:31 PM	#2
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,524	I don't have any direct data for you to use. Sounds like kind of an unusual bullet. If it were me, I would start with 147g data. Seating depth is the primary issue in terms of pressure. OAL is an indirect measurement of seating depth. I would measure the overall length of the bullet itself and compare it to a "known good" - i.e., a similar as I could get bullet that I already use. It would at least give me a starting point. I would also perform a "plunk test," on the barrel that's going to shoot it. This would most likely determine my OAL. I would proceed from there - with 147g data. That's how I would approach it. I have no experience with AutoComp, but I have extensive experience with W231, Unique, and Power Pistol. All three would make good rounds. You are fortunate to have such an inventory. W231 is not too fast. It would, however, have a steeper pressure curve than your medium speed burners (Uni, P'P'stl). If that makes you nervy; by all means, start with the Unique. The trade-off of W231 on the good side is consistency. I'm not recommending W231 specifically - that's up to you. But W231 likes heavy bullets and propels them with particular consistency. No, you won't have top velocity; but you'd have really consistent general purpose shooters. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

August 16, 2014, 11:41 AM	#3
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	Thanks Nick. Good points. I generally determine my desired OAL using the "tightest" chamber of my 9mm pistols. If a bullet/brass combination will fit in my Springfield XDm, it will fit the others. Lead bullets are set in range of a 0.005" jump to touching the lands; with some possible variance based on bullet uniformity. I will do some math on the seating depth. Can’t use the Berry’s hollow backed for those calculations, but I can get some baseline measurements off 124 Hornady XTP and MO Bullet Co. Smallball bullets I have used for other loads. I do like W-231. I had some hesitation on trying it for two reasons. One is the load data I could find either didn’t have the powder listed for 147 grain bullets or the min/max range was so tight, as in just a few tenths difference between min and max, that I didn’t want to experiment with a totally new bullet with a different weight (140 grains). The second reason is simply I haven’t seen any W-231 for sale lately and my stock is dwindling. The local gun store recently blessed me with 4 pounds of AutoComp at their cost of around $19/pound, so I’m thinking AutoComp will be part of the upcoming reloads and testing. __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.

August 19, 2014, 02:04 PM	#6
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	zxcvbob, Lyman Pistol and Revolver shows a maximum of 4.5 Unique under a FMJ bullet. With these being lead, estimated BHN of 14, I’ll back down the maximum a tad under 4.5 grains, probably around 4.2, which puts me slightly below Alliant’s online 4.3 grains maximum. My first guess of OAL was based on my length for a similar looking bullet. I last night had time to determine the OAL for these new bullets. It appears my OAL will be 1.165” with a 0.005” set back off the lands. The 140 grain average weight is really got me scratching my head. IF the pressure curve was linear, then I could simply use linear interpolation between two known points, using data for 124/125 grain and 147 grain bullets, but can’t do that when the curve is a curve. (I tried linear interpolation and got squirrelly numbers) In theory, I should be able to use 147 grain data with a small bump since the bullets are 7 grains less. I normally load a series for initial testing because the range is an hour drive away. While I’ll test from low to high, I’m interested in the top end loads, because I suspect the AutoComp, Unique and Power Pistol will burn better with the pressure increase. __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.

August 20, 2014, 05:04 PM	#7
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	you guys know I ain't guessing, right? Most highly recommend a start of 5.0g Power Pistol. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo" Last edited by WESHOOT2; August 20, 2014 at 05:05 PM. Reason: might suggest an OAL of 1.125--1.155"; start 1.130"

August 20, 2014, 11:32 PM	#8
mchapman Member Join Date: July 29, 2014 Posts: 38	If I were you I'd use the Auto Comp, it's almost the same as CFE Pistol, both of these I think will be the new universal powders that cover most common pistol calibers used today, like unique and bullseye was in the past, they are also alot cleaner burning.

August 22, 2014, 02:29 PM	#10
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	screw data I load Power Pistol in 9x19 using 115g JHP from R-P, 121g/123/124/125/131/135/145/147g lead from numerous makers, plated bullets from Speer or Rainier weighing 115g/124/151g, and jacketed bullets from many makers weighing 124g/125/130/135/147g. I use CCI and Federal and Winchester and Remington standard and magnum small pistol primers, and small rifle primers from CCI and Winchester and small rifle magnum from Remington. I load 9x19 in new and used cases from IMI and Speer and Federal and Winchester and Remington and Starline and Gecco and many others. I normally run 4.6g under a 147g lead or a R-P FMJ. Under the 124/125g lead I normally use 5.4--5.9g, based on goal. I have used many lbs in the 9x19, and find it a favorite (along with WAP and 3N37 and HS6). I also note it finds favor amongst Bullseye shooters at 6.0g under a 121g Hornady HAP. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

August 22, 2014, 03:34 PM	#11
dwhite Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2007 Location: Wake County, N. Carolina Posts: 379	Wondering if you have measured the diameter of these? Are they 0.356" for 9mm or 0.358" for .38 special? Just the 140 grain weight makes me wonder? All the Best, D. White __________________ 10th Amendment - The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

August 22, 2014, 04:18 PM	#12
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	alloying for a "135g LRN" They're probably .356", BUT they may have a wee bit more lead in them (heavier than advertised = 'softer'; lighter than advertised = 'harder'). __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"