Most important tool

sabrefanpc · March 30, 2005, 08:54 PM

I have a confession to make. I.... am a tinkerer. Its a sort of compulsion I have that has manifested itself in cars and custom paintball markers.

So now I have a new monster on my back and I want to read up on general firearms operation and pistolsmithing. Anyone have any suggested readings?

On a semi related note, well I dont plan on doing this for many years and tons of experience, I have found that in paintball I can often piece by piece assemble a marker cheaper than buying a gun. Same goes with turbo kits on N/A cars, can save over a grand on some applications. Does the same hold true for firearms?

**4V50 Gary** · March 30, 2005, 09:00 PM

Once you learn the basics, you can take virtually any gun apart. This is especially true for semi-automatics. It's either held in place by a screw, spring & plunger, pin (roll or straight) and spring tension.

My favorite book is Walther Howe's book on Gunsmithing. He use to write for a gun rag not that many years ago.

Cazach · March 31, 2005, 12:36 PM

Depends on what types of guns you want to tinker on.

I like the Kuhnhaussen books for 1911's. Other may have additional resources.

As far as saving money, it is difficult to say. Again with 1911's, in most cases doing it yourself is a push vs. buying a tricked out rig or sending it to a smith.

The upside is the knowledge you gain and whether or not you enjoy the experience.

Highly addictive though.

BHP9 · April 2, 2005, 08:19 AM

The most important tool for 'smithing is the grey matter between your ears.

The second are good books and the time to read them.

The third are a set of good gunsmith screwdrivers and tools, this is not the place to cheap out.

The books have been previously listed.

BHP9

Harry Bonar · April 29, 2005, 09:34 PM

Dear Sir:
By the time we understand even half of what we're doing it's time to depart this mortal coil! But oh! what fun it is. Solomon said, "Whatsoever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might." That's the difference between domino/card players, and golfers and a real gunsmith (See Modern Gunsmithing by Howe on that subject.)

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MYSTERY OR LUCK, make your choices wisely.

Harry B.

Dave Sample · April 30, 2005, 11:18 AM

My friend Harry B knows the gunsmithing business a lot better than I do. I have done 1911's part time (60 hours a week sometimes) and never felt like I wanted to be chained to a bench 18 hours a day like some of my most worthy pals are. I am not a"gunsmith" alhough sometimes I am called that. I do not work on "Guns" except for 1911 semi-automatic Colt 1911 Type Pistols and 1873 Single Action Revolvers. I am a Tune Up Specialist for the Cowboy guns and only pick and chose what work I want to do at this point. I write a column for SHOOT Magazine called "Cowboy Smithin" when I feel like it and they print it if they feel like it. Nice arrangement. Pro bono, by the way. I do not get paid because I am retired and I want to own what they print. I am too old to be captured by committments. I do not want to answer my phone and hear "Where is my gun?" I turn my SA work in about 7-10 days and have done a return in less than 24 hours when I had a friendly one.
I am teaching my 4th Online 1911 PATRIOT Class and will start the 5th one this summer with a new GSP Online build that will be very interesting. The students that have finished the course of instruction are quite happy with their results, for the most part. We did have on e major failure to communicate and a very unhappy student who is now happy with his pistol after sending it to 7 different smiths to complete the work he did to start with. He built a very nice PATRIOT but was mislead by a man who didn't know anything about really nice 1911's and led him down a path to unhappiness. I have to live with the fact that you just can't get everyone to be happy with what you do. 1 out of 76 is not a bad record and I have to live with that. I like 100%, as most of you know.
I am the first one to encourage "Do it yourself" in any type of work. But as Clint Eastwood said in a movie "A man has to know his limitations". There are many things you can do to a gun at home and there are also many ways to get bad advice on the Internet and ruin it. There is no way to seperate the two that I know of, because there is no way to consider the source of the information and tell who is a parrot and who knows the right information. That is what makes these forums so much fun. The Information Overload in all it's Glory'
I never advise anyone to get into the "Gunsmith Business". But if you do, all I can do is wish you all the luck in the world, because whether Harry believes in good luck or not, I do. It is a "Gypsy Curse"!

sabrefanpc · April 30, 2005, 11:53 AM

Oh don't worry, I have no intention of getting into this to make money. I simply enjoy working with my hands, especially with something mechanical like cars, and figured I might give VERY BASIC gunsmithing a shot.

**4V50 Gary** · April 30, 2005, 04:36 PM

Hollow ground screwdrivers. You may want several sets if it's just a 7 or 8 set of screwdrivers. This allows you to grind them to fit and double the # of screwdrivers you have.

Hammers. 2 ounce ball peen. 2 ounce brass. Rawhide. Plastic.

Punch sets. In the old days, a set of Starretts or Mayhew were enough. Modernly you also need roll-pins and cup punches (inside of tip scooped out for pins).

Bench mounted vise with brass pads for jaws. Leather pads (glued on blocks of wood) are good too.

Good incadescent table lamp (those swing over styles so you can throw light on your piece).

Magnet (to sweep the floor for parts that went orbital or rolled away.

Stones. Hard & Soft Arkansas (or ceramics).

Brass punches or plastic drifts. Good for moving sights and they won't mar your metal like a steel one could.

Calipers with dial indicator. I used verniers but now my eyes can't see the little lines. Big dial is easy to read.

I won't discuss files because it all depends on what type of firearm you're going to be working on.

Wildalaska · April 30, 2005, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Magnet (to sweep the floor for parts that went orbital or rolled away.

If you have guys like ours, you need knee pads too

WildwheredidthatpingoAlaska

**4V50 Gary** · April 30, 2005, 07:24 PM

A good gunshop is a well swept gunshop, isn't it WildIdontseeitanywherecanyoufinditAlasaka?

Dave Sample · May 1, 2005, 02:41 PM

I don't even want to talk about the parts that fly away in my tiny shop. Friday, I shot 3 recoil spring bushings into the dark places and only found two! True Value has a HUGE magnet stick that looks like a mine sweeper that I may buy for $22.00 jst to see what is in there from 13 years of losing parts. Do you guys sift your shop vac stuff with your magnet like I do? Wow is me, and last week I couldn't even spell clumsy, and now I are one!

Wildalaska · May 2, 2005, 12:52 AM

Gary you been monitoring us?

Sometimes I think gunshop floors are like dimensional space warps

WildonyokneesAlaska

Dave Sample · May 2, 2005, 12:41 PM

I was forced to look at my shop floor yesterday while getting the bench ready for surgery on a 1873 type SA Cowboy Gun that needs some help. I really have to do something about it soon. Maybe tomorrow, or next week. Yuk!

Harry Bonar · May 4, 2005, 03:42 PM

Dear Shooter:
If you go into gunsmithing for a living prepare to die poor; by the time we learn enough to be really good it's time for that "BIG GUNSHOP IN THE SKY."
I agree with Dave; I like guns, gunsmithing and boationg and fishing for THE FUN OF IT! A good dog helps too.
Things go places in an old shop - I've lost (and found) my number and letter stamps where my eyesight has failed to let me hit square! It's not bad to get old; there is a peace that comes with it and gunsmithing is a pleasure and the people it attracts and the good friends it builds - now that's what is really important.
Harry B.

DT Guy · May 4, 2005, 04:43 PM

Dave, if you think that it's sad needing a big magnet, try needing a metal detector-in your kitchen! Yep, I did, and yep, it worked.

Tiny little @%#* CZ pins...!

Larry

Dave Sample · May 5, 2005, 05:50 PM

I spilled some Red Ryder B-B's in the kitchen a few weeks ago and used the magnet stick to pick them up. I dropped a pill this AM and found two more.

Harry mentioned something that I tend to forget. I have met some of the nicest people in the world while doing gun work. Thanks to all of you! Gunpeople do hold the High Moral Ground in America today.

March 30, 2005, 08:54 PM	#1
sabrefanpc Member Join Date: March 24, 2005 Posts: 54	Most important tool I have a confession to make. I.... am a tinkerer. Its a sort of compulsion I have that has manifested itself in cars and custom paintball markers. So now I have a new monster on my back and I want to read up on general firearms operation and pistolsmithing. Anyone have any suggested readings? On a semi related note, well I dont plan on doing this for many years and tons of experience, I have found that in paintball I can often piece by piece assemble a marker cheaper than buying a gun. Same goes with turbo kits on N/A cars, can save over a grand on some applications. Does the same hold true for firearms?

March 30, 2005, 09:00 PM	#2
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	Once you learn the basics, you can take virtually any gun apart. This is especially true for semi-automatics. It's either held in place by a screw, spring & plunger, pin (roll or straight) and spring tension. My favorite book is Walther Howe's book on Gunsmithing. He use to write for a gun rag not that many years ago. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

April 29, 2005, 09:34 PM	#5
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	starting gunsmithing Dear Sir: By the time we understand even half of what we're doing it's time to depart this mortal coil! But oh! what fun it is. Solomon said, "Whatsoever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might." That's the difference between domino/card players, and golfers and a real gunsmith (See Modern Gunsmithing by Howe on that subject.) THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MYSTERY OR LUCK, make your choices wisely. Harry B.

April 30, 2005, 04:36 PM	#8
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	If you didn't pick up Howe's or any other book, here's a list of some basic tools: Hollow ground screwdrivers. You may want several sets if it's just a 7 or 8 set of screwdrivers. This allows you to grind them to fit and double the # of screwdrivers you have. Hammers. 2 ounce ball peen. 2 ounce brass. Rawhide. Plastic. Punch sets. In the old days, a set of Starretts or Mayhew were enough. Modernly you also need roll-pins and cup punches (inside of tip scooped out for pins). Bench mounted vise with brass pads for jaws. Leather pads (glued on blocks of wood) are good too. Good incadescent table lamp (those swing over styles so you can throw light on your piece). Magnet (to sweep the floor for parts that went orbital or rolled away. Stones. Hard & Soft Arkansas (or ceramics). Brass punches or plastic drifts. Good for moving sights and they won't mar your metal like a steel one could. Calipers with dial indicator. I used verniers but now my eyes can't see the little lines. Big dial is easy to read. I won't discuss files because it all depends on what type of firearm you're going to be working on. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

April 30, 2005, 07:24 PM	#10
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	A good gunshop is a well swept gunshop, isn't it WildIdontseeitanywherecanyoufinditAlasaka? __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

March 31, 2005, 12:36 PM	#3
Cazach Member Join Date: December 9, 2004 Posts: 58	Depends on what types of guns you want to tinker on. I like the Kuhnhaussen books for 1911's. Other may have additional resources. As far as saving money, it is difficult to say. Again with 1911's, in most cases doing it yourself is a push vs. buying a tricked out rig or sending it to a smith. The upside is the knowledge you gain and whether or not you enjoy the experience. Highly addictive though.

April 2, 2005, 08:19 AM	#4
BHP9 Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Posts: 76	The most important tool for 'smithing is the grey matter between your ears. The second are good books and the time to read them. The third are a set of good gunsmith screwdrivers and tools, this is not the place to cheap out. The books have been previously listed. BHP9

April 30, 2005, 11:18 AM	#6
Dave Sample Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 1,002	My friend Harry B knows the gunsmithing business a lot better than I do. I have done 1911's part time (60 hours a week sometimes) and never felt like I wanted to be chained to a bench 18 hours a day like some of my most worthy pals are. I am not a"gunsmith" alhough sometimes I am called that. I do not work on "Guns" except for 1911 semi-automatic Colt 1911 Type Pistols and 1873 Single Action Revolvers. I am a Tune Up Specialist for the Cowboy guns and only pick and chose what work I want to do at this point. I write a column for SHOOT Magazine called "Cowboy Smithin" when I feel like it and they print it if they feel like it. Nice arrangement. Pro bono, by the way. I do not get paid because I am retired and I want to own what they print. I am too old to be captured by committments. I do not want to answer my phone and hear "Where is my gun?" I turn my SA work in about 7-10 days and have done a return in less than 24 hours when I had a friendly one. I am teaching my 4th Online 1911 PATRIOT Class and will start the 5th one this summer with a new GSP Online build that will be very interesting. The students that have finished the course of instruction are quite happy with their results, for the most part. We did have on e major failure to communicate and a very unhappy student who is now happy with his pistol after sending it to 7 different smiths to complete the work he did to start with. He built a very nice PATRIOT but was mislead by a man who didn't know anything about really nice 1911's and led him down a path to unhappiness. I have to live with the fact that you just can't get everyone to be happy with what you do. 1 out of 76 is not a bad record and I have to live with that. I like 100%, as most of you know. I am the first one to encourage "Do it yourself" in any type of work. But as Clint Eastwood said in a movie "A man has to know his limitations". There are many things you can do to a gun at home and there are also many ways to get bad advice on the Internet and ruin it. There is no way to seperate the two that I know of, because there is no way to consider the source of the information and tell who is a parrot and who knows the right information. That is what makes these forums so much fun. The Information Overload in all it's Glory' I never advise anyone to get into the "Gunsmith Business". But if you do, all I can do is wish you all the luck in the world, because whether Harry believes in good luck or not, I do. It is a "Gypsy Curse"!

April 30, 2005, 11:53 AM	#7
sabrefanpc Member Join Date: March 24, 2005 Posts: 54	Oh don't worry, I have no intention of getting into this to make money. I simply enjoy working with my hands, especially with something mechanical like cars, and figured I might give VERY BASIC gunsmithing a shot.

May 1, 2005, 02:41 PM	#11
Dave Sample Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 1,002	I don't even want to talk about the parts that fly away in my tiny shop. Friday, I shot 3 recoil spring bushings into the dark places and only found two! True Value has a HUGE magnet stick that looks like a mine sweeper that I may buy for $22.00 jst to see what is in there from 13 years of losing parts. Do you guys sift your shop vac stuff with your magnet like I do? Wow is me, and last week I couldn't even spell clumsy, and now I are one!

May 2, 2005, 12:52 AM	#12
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	Gary you been monitoring us? Sometimes I think gunshop floors are like dimensional space warps WildonyokneesAlaska

May 2, 2005, 12:41 PM	#13
Dave Sample Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 1,002	I was forced to look at my shop floor yesterday while getting the bench ready for surgery on a 1873 type SA Cowboy Gun that needs some help. I really have to do something about it soon. Maybe tomorrow, or next week. Yuk!

May 4, 2005, 03:42 PM	#14
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	gunsmithing Dear Shooter: If you go into gunsmithing for a living prepare to die poor; by the time we learn enough to be really good it's time for that "BIG GUNSHOP IN THE SKY." I agree with Dave; I like guns, gunsmithing and boationg and fishing for THE FUN OF IT! A good dog helps too. Things go places in an old shop - I've lost (and found) my number and letter stamps where my eyesight has failed to let me hit square! It's not bad to get old; there is a peace that comes with it and gunsmithing is a pleasure and the people it attracts and the good friends it builds - now that's what is really important. Harry B.

May 4, 2005, 04:43 PM	#15
DT Guy Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2001 Posts: 959	Dave, if you think that it's sad needing a big magnet, try needing a metal detector-in your kitchen! Yep, I did, and yep, it worked. Tiny little @%#* CZ pins...! Larry __________________ He who fights and runs away had better run pretty damn fast. Government, Anarchy and Chaos

May 5, 2005, 05:50 PM	#16
Dave Sample Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 1,002	I spilled some Red Ryder B-B's in the kitchen a few weeks ago and used the magnet stick to pick them up. I dropped a pill this AM and found two more. Harry mentioned something that I tend to forget. I have met some of the nicest people in the world while doing gun work. Thanks to all of you! Gunpeople do hold the High Moral Ground in America today.