Mod 70 - Only one set of scope base screw holes - Why?

TGS · November 22, 2004, 08:33 AM

My Dad gave me his .375 he bought in Alaska back about 1959. Ive had it a few years and use it for deer (substancially loaded down). It has a very "unique" Pachmeyer break away scope mount that actually returns to zero with very good accuracy problem is the scope is fogging and to remove or replace (the scope must be disassemble. The turrents must be removed and the eyepiece screwed off and then the scope can be slide out of the mount and loosened "clamping"rings and vice versa to mount a scope. A Lot of messin to just change out a scope .
The Blue Book for Gun Values talks about the Mod 70 PostWar (s/n 170171) .300 H&H and .375H&H only having a single (forward receiver)) set of base screw holes which is the case with this gun, at the front of the reciever with none on the rear. Whats the story and what type of mount was intended to be used. I dearly love shooting the gun and would like to retire the Pachmeyer and 4X weaver and use a 6X leopold with rings and bases WITHOUT drilling and tapping the reciever rear. Does anyone know whats going on with this and why winchester did this? Im thinking maybe they intended the rear iron sight be replaced with a base in conjunction with the front reciever mount?
Thanks for any light you can shed on this. Harley said this is the place to find out.
Tom

Jim Watson · November 22, 2004, 04:12 PM

I have no idea as to why Winchester was not drilling & tapping the reciever bridge at that late date. But I do have some ideas how you can keep shooting.

That Pachmayr Low-Swing mount was also made with split rings so you would not have to disassemble the scope to get it mounted. Get one of those and it would likely attach to the same (side?) holes the old one is using.

Stith made a line of no-gunsmithing mounts in those days. In this case the front base would attach to the top holes on the receiver ring and the rear base would attach to the holes on the side of the bridge where a peep sight would go. Is your rifle is drilled and tapped on the left rear for a peep? The only question is, what type of rings did they use, split or solid? I don't know but I bet Chris Hyde does.

Check with him at
Vintage Sporting
2326 Clinton Ave W.
Huntsville, AL 35805
256-534-9292 voice
256-534-8383 fax
[email protected]

He has both Pachmayr and Stith mounts and can probably tell you what will serve you best.

TGS · November 22, 2004, 06:45 PM

Jim,
Thanks for the great bit of info and I now have another option as well as the options you provided.
Apparently the lack of drilled and tapped holes in the rear is attributed to simply a missed operation in the manufacturing process. It was not intended to be that way and they made it thru the process Q.C. checks and out the doors.
The up-side is that the Blue Book talks about the missing holes and it adds 30% to its collector value. The down side is the drilling of the side of the receiver for the Pachmayr mount negates any additional increase to a collector. Also it has had a muzzle brake added. My Dad bought it in the Spenard Guns gun shop Spenard Alaska (Anchorage suburb) when I was a kid set up as it is now. He paid $75.00. It was used and has the name Elmer Birdsail engraved toward the rear of the receiver.
My Dad thought he would re-blue it with some cold-blue and it didnt come out well.
Winchester asked that I send it to them to drill and tap the rear mount holes. And I'll probably go ahead and do that as soon as deer season is over. Its a great shooter and I will go ahead and slow rust re-blue it in the spring and just keep on shooting it. Again thanks for your assistance I will contact Vintage Sporting and see what they can do. Yes it is drilled on the left side for the peep sight and hopefully they can get me thru this season with mounts.
Regards
Tom

Jim Watson · November 22, 2004, 06:55 PM

With all those changes, the collector value is nil, and I wouldn't want to sell off a family piece anyhow. I would go ahead and have the bridge drilled and tapped for a standard scope mount.

Let us know what Chris does for you. A Gun List ad of his in May shows Pachmayr Low Swing ring sets for $25 but doesn't say if they are split or solid. If they are split, we can hope they would fit your base already on the gun. Stiths are $95 in that ad.

November 22, 2004, 08:33 AM	#1
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	Mod 70 - Only one set of scope base screw holes - Why? My Dad gave me his .375 he bought in Alaska back about 1959. Ive had it a few years and use it for deer (substancially loaded down). It has a very "unique" Pachmeyer break away scope mount that actually returns to zero with very good accuracy problem is the scope is fogging and to remove or replace (the scope must be disassemble. The turrents must be removed and the eyepiece screwed off and then the scope can be slide out of the mount and loosened "clamping"rings and vice versa to mount a scope. A Lot of messin to just change out a scope . The Blue Book for Gun Values talks about the Mod 70 PostWar (s/n 170171) .300 H&H and .375H&H only having a single (forward receiver)) set of base screw holes which is the case with this gun, at the front of the reciever with none on the rear. Whats the story and what type of mount was intended to be used. I dearly love shooting the gun and would like to retire the Pachmeyer and 4X weaver and use a 6X leopold with rings and bases WITHOUT drilling and tapping the reciever rear. Does anyone know whats going on with this and why winchester did this? Im thinking maybe they intended the rear iron sight be replaced with a base in conjunction with the front reciever mount? Thanks for any light you can shed on this. Harley said this is the place to find out. Tom

November 22, 2004, 06:45 PM	#3
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	Spoke with Winchester Historian today Jim, Thanks for the great bit of info and I now have another option as well as the options you provided. Apparently the lack of drilled and tapped holes in the rear is attributed to simply a missed operation in the manufacturing process. It was not intended to be that way and they made it thru the process Q.C. checks and out the doors. The up-side is that the Blue Book talks about the missing holes and it adds 30% to its collector value. The down side is the drilling of the side of the receiver for the Pachmayr mount negates any additional increase to a collector. Also it has had a muzzle brake added. My Dad bought it in the Spenard Guns gun shop Spenard Alaska (Anchorage suburb) when I was a kid set up as it is now. He paid $75.00. It was used and has the name Elmer Birdsail engraved toward the rear of the receiver. My Dad thought he would re-blue it with some cold-blue and it didnt come out well. Winchester asked that I send it to them to drill and tap the rear mount holes. And I'll probably go ahead and do that as soon as deer season is over. Its a great shooter and I will go ahead and slow rust re-blue it in the spring and just keep on shooting it. Again thanks for your assistance I will contact Vintage Sporting and see what they can do. Yes it is drilled on the left side for the peep sight and hopefully they can get me thru this season with mounts. Regards Tom

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November 22, 2004, 04:12 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,534	I have no idea as to why Winchester was not drilling & tapping the reciever bridge at that late date. But I do have some ideas how you can keep shooting. That Pachmayr Low-Swing mount was also made with split rings so you would not have to disassemble the scope to get it mounted. Get one of those and it would likely attach to the same (side?) holes the old one is using. Stith made a line of no-gunsmithing mounts in those days. In this case the front base would attach to the top holes on the receiver ring and the rear base would attach to the holes on the side of the bridge where a peep sight would go. Is your rifle is drilled and tapped on the left rear for a peep? The only question is, what type of rings did they use, split or solid? I don't know but I bet Chris Hyde does. Check with him at Vintage Sporting 2326 Clinton Ave W. Huntsville, AL 35805 256-534-9292 voice 256-534-8383 fax [email protected] He has both Pachmayr and Stith mounts and can probably tell you what will serve you best.

November 22, 2004, 06:55 PM	#4
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,534	With all those changes, the collector value is nil, and I wouldn't want to sell off a family piece anyhow. I would go ahead and have the bridge drilled and tapped for a standard scope mount. Let us know what Chris does for you. A Gun List ad of his in May shows Pachmayr Low Swing ring sets for $25 but doesn't say if they are split or solid. If they are split, we can hope they would fit your base already on the gun. Stiths are $95 in that ad.