Has Anyone Tried Alliant Blackmz

redrick · October 18, 2012, 10:08 PM

I switched from whitehots too Blackhorn 209 in my CVA Accura last year and it performed fine last year with the limited time I shot it, almost the whole can.

I tried it again this year ( same can stored in the house ) and started getting hangfires about every 3 or 4 shots. It was clean, I fired a primmer first, CCI 209 mag and it was packed hard and after the 2nd hangfire, cleaned again. Don't trust it now.

Someone recommended Alliant Blackmz too me. Anyone have any experience with it and what's your sweet load ?

arcticap · October 18, 2012, 11:14 PM

I'm curious about whether you completely cleaned out the flash hole channel in the breech plug before the misfires started with the BH209.
Folks recommend using a fine drill to remove the carbon buildup from the flash hole. The drill needs to be twisted by hand, and the carbon residue is the result of the more powerful back pressure that it creates.
I haven't shot the Alliant Black MZ. But it is essentially the same product as Schockey's Gold 2F and American Pioneer 2F, except more expensive. The grains are very chunky and it requires a lot of consistent heavy compression to obtain good results. If the compression isn't measured by using a marked ramrod, then the velocity can fluctuate by 100-200 FPS which can hurt accuracy.
The Black MZ is only made in 2F, but the American Pioneer or Shockey's Gold would be a better choice in 3F which is more like a conventional 2F or 2.5F. They're all made by the same manufacturer but with different labels.
It's worth giving any of them a try but many folks expect better results with less effort to develop a consistent loading method.

redrick · October 19, 2012, 07:31 AM

I cleaned out the breech plug last year with a drill bit after it had been soaking for about an hour and it had not been shot since. I also cleaned it again after the hangfire. I didn't have a drill bit with me but I used a nipple pick. I also believe in marking your ramrod. Mine is marked for empty and again when I change loads with a clean barrel.

shortwave · October 19, 2012, 12:33 PM

Knowing that your rifle is clean and your powder was kept dry, have you tried different primers?

FrontierGander · October 19, 2012, 05:05 PM

Its the breech plug, BH209 Came out late in the game and no guns were ready for its burn rate. You can mod the plug easily with a #64 drill bit "flash hole" and a 5/32" "flash channel" drill bit.

A huge improve though is this right here.
http://gandersmuzzleloadingblog.blog...pem-clean.html

Also use CCI 209 Magnum primers, they are the hottest primer made and thats what BH209 needs.

redrick · October 19, 2012, 05:41 PM

I tried CCI 209 mag primers and Winchester tripple 7 primers. Last year the Winchester tripple 7 primers worked.

I called CVA and spoke too them about it. They make a special breech plug for their guns that have the qwik breech plug. Mine is the year before they had that type breech plug. He told me that they did test on the older type breech plug and found that it didn't need improving too shoot Blackhorn 209. I told him that mine will not shoot it and we left it there.

FrontierGander · October 19, 2012, 05:50 PM

okay i figured u had the v1 accura. T7 primers are way to weak. I had the v1 and know what you mean by hang firing and such. I can mod the plug for you free of charge if you'd like. Adjusting the head space and using the cci 209m primers will make the problem non existent.

redrick · October 19, 2012, 06:21 PM

Frontier,
I know you are the CVA man I welcome your advice.

I adjusted the headspace with their bushing kit after the 2nd hangfire.

Did you have good luck with your modified breech plug?

The strange thing is it fired everytime last year with the Winchester primmer.

October 18, 2012, 10:08 PM	#1
redrick Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,041	Has Anyone Tried Alliant Blackmz I switched from whitehots too Blackhorn 209 in my CVA Accura last year and it performed fine last year with the limited time I shot it, almost the whole can. I tried it again this year ( same can stored in the house ) and started getting hangfires about every 3 or 4 shots. It was clean, I fired a primmer first, CCI 209 mag and it was packed hard and after the 2nd hangfire, cleaned again. Don't trust it now. Someone recommended Alliant Blackmz too me. Anyone have any experience with it and what's your sweet load ?

October 18, 2012, 11:14 PM	#2
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	I'm curious about whether you completely cleaned out the flash hole channel in the breech plug before the misfires started with the BH209. Folks recommend using a fine drill to remove the carbon buildup from the flash hole. The drill needs to be twisted by hand, and the carbon residue is the result of the more powerful back pressure that it creates. I haven't shot the Alliant Black MZ. But it is essentially the same product as Schockey's Gold 2F and American Pioneer 2F, except more expensive. The grains are very chunky and it requires a lot of consistent heavy compression to obtain good results. If the compression isn't measured by using a marked ramrod, then the velocity can fluctuate by 100-200 FPS which can hurt accuracy. The Black MZ is only made in 2F, but the American Pioneer or Shockey's Gold would be a better choice in 3F which is more like a conventional 2F or 2.5F. They're all made by the same manufacturer but with different labels. It's worth giving any of them a try but many folks expect better results with less effort to develop a consistent loading method. Last edited by arcticap; October 18, 2012 at 11:21 PM.

October 19, 2012, 05:05 PM	#5
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	Its the breech plug, BH209 Came out late in the game and no guns were ready for its burn rate. You can mod the plug easily with a #64 drill bit "flash hole" and a 5/32" "flash channel" drill bit. A huge improve though is this right here. http://gandersmuzzleloadingblog.blog...pem-clean.html Also use CCI 209 Magnum primers, they are the hottest primer made and thats what BH209 needs. __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

October 19, 2012, 05:50 PM	#7
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	okay i figured u had the v1 accura. T7 primers are way to weak. I had the v1 and know what you mean by hang firing and such. I can mod the plug for you free of charge if you'd like. Adjusting the head space and using the cci 209m primers will make the problem non existent. __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

October 19, 2012, 06:21 PM	#8
redrick Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,041	Frontier, I know you are the CVA man I welcome your advice. I adjusted the headspace with their bushing kit after the 2nd hangfire. Did you have good luck with your modified breech plug? The strange thing is it fired everytime last year with the Winchester primmer. Last edited by redrick; October 19, 2012 at 06:28 PM.

October 19, 2012, 07:31 AM	#3
redrick Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,041	I cleaned out the breech plug last year with a drill bit after it had been soaking for about an hour and it had not been shot since. I also cleaned it again after the hangfire. I didn't have a drill bit with me but I used a nipple pick. I also believe in marking your ramrod. Mine is marked for empty and again when I change loads with a clean barrel.

October 19, 2012, 12:33 PM	#4
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	Knowing that your rifle is clean and your powder was kept dry, have you tried different primers?

October 19, 2012, 05:41 PM	#6
redrick Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,041	I tried CCI 209 mag primers and Winchester tripple 7 primers. Last year the Winchester tripple 7 primers worked. I called CVA and spoke too them about it. They make a special breech plug for their guns that have the qwik breech plug. Mine is the year before they had that type breech plug. He told me that they did test on the older type breech plug and found that it didn't need improving too shoot Blackhorn 209. I told him that mine will not shoot it and we left it there.

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