reduce 296?

Jack Straw · November 11, 1999, 05:48 PM

I'm thinking of trying Win 296 in my 44 and according to the Lee manual 25gr is the only load given for a 240gr lead bullet. Is this powder not to be reduced at all, or what? I know Hodgdon says to reduce H110 no more than 3%, and given the similarities between those two powders, does it stand to reason that the same may be applied to 296, or should I just go with the 25gr?

Thanks much,

Jack

Grayfox · November 11, 1999, 11:07 PM

DO NOT REDUCE LOADS FOR W296! The Winchester data says this loud and clear. 296 is an excellent powder for magnum cartridges, but its real touchy about reduced loads. Check Winchester's website for more info. Sorry, I don't have the addy handy.

**Mal H** · November 12, 1999, 01:11 AM

Winchester reloading manual can be downloaded at:
www.winchester.com/reloader/index.html

Cheapo · November 12, 1999, 01:42 AM

It does no good for you, since it's second-hand as posted here, but...

I have heard at least one (only 1? I furgit sometimes...) first-had report of reduced 296 loads failing to light up and leaving a bullet lodged midway down the bore.

Comparing the old Speer loading data with Winchester, the Win data appeared to be at teh 3% reduced level already. However, the fact that Win used different bullets (of the same weight) makes such suppositions dangerous.

Stick with the published load. If you want less flash, blast, and velocity, use something like Alliant's Power Pistol, which *can* be downloaded from max.

Jack Straw · November 12, 1999, 11:51 AM

Thanks for the help guys. I can't find a Winchester guide at any of the gun stores and I've tried to download it twice, but for some reason my computer doesn't want me to have it. I wasn't really looking for reduced loads, but starting out with a max load, per se, just goes against all the safety rules I have learned (and my ingrained desire to keep all my fingers intact!).

Jack

Randy Garrett · November 14, 1999, 03:44 PM

25-grains of 296 sounds a little too hot for starters, even considering that 296 is for maximum loads. Depending upon the relative hardness (or softness) of the bullet and the depth to which the design in question needs to be seated, I would start at about 22-grains and work up carefully.

Randy Garrett · November 14, 1999, 04:03 PM

25-grains of 296 sounds a little too hot for starters, even considering that 296 is for maximum loads. Depending upon the relative hardness (or softness) of the bullet and the depth to which the design in question needs to be seated, I would start at about 22-grains and work up carefully.

**Mal H** · November 14, 1999, 05:39 PM

Don't know if you guys know who Randy Garrett is, but if I were you, I'd listen closely to his advice.

Good to see you here, and welcome aboard.

Joefo · November 15, 1999, 04:20 PM

Garrett Ammunition no?

Joefo

Desert Dog · November 15, 1999, 05:12 PM

I ditto Mal H...

Welcome Mr Garrett...

------------------
"No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority" - Thomas Jefferson

Spectre · November 18, 1999, 01:06 AM

My word, the Lord is smilling on me. Mr.Garrett I am looking for a good load for my Anaconda in .45 Colt. I have tried 25 grs of 296 as per Loadbooks data with WLP primers and Hornady XTP 250 gr JHP's. Got very smokey lookin' cases after and decided to back off to 24 grs of 296. Recoil was reduced and the cases came out clean. Didn't have any pressure sign on the cases with either load. What would your recomendations be?

Walt Welch · November 20, 1999, 06:27 PM

The problem with reduced loads of H-110 and W296 is a phenomenon called detonation. It is when the powder doesn't ignite in a normal way, but in some abnormal way, and this causes paradoxically high, VERY high pressures. Which can blow up guns.

Factors favoring detonation are: low loading density, reduced loads, use of regular primers where magnum primers are called for, and possibly light crimp.

Win makes Hodgdon powders, BTW, and the burning rates of H-110 and W296 are very close. I spoke to a technician at Hodgdon a while ago, and he stated that the detonation phenomenon was nearly impossible to duplicate in the laboratory, but it did occur, and he had personally seen it.

Win DOES list 'reduced' loads for W296 in their latest loading manual, but only for one cartridge, the .454 Casull, and the 'reduced' loads generate 38,000-40,000psi. The full loads generate 50,000psi!

I would follow the advice of Mr. Garret. He makes the world's best .44 Mag ammo. Walt

Matt · November 25, 1999, 10:05 AM

I've only been reloading for a couple of months now, but 44 mag with Winchester 296 is the first round I started loading. Winchester manual clearly states DO NOT REDUCE the charge and use a heavy crimp. It also states 296 is not good for light bullets. I've loaded about 2000 rounds and they've all been very accurate (much more accurate than reloads I had been buying at the range. I can actually get a group!). The Winchester manual shows some loads with 231 you can reduce. Hope this helps.

------------------
Thanks,Matt

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November 11, 1999, 05:48 PM	#1
Jack Straw Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 362	I'm thinking of trying Win 296 in my 44 and according to the Lee manual 25gr is the only load given for a 240gr lead bullet. Is this powder not to be reduced at all, or what? I know Hodgdon says to reduce H110 no more than 3%, and given the similarities between those two powders, does it stand to reason that the same may be applied to 296, or should I just go with the 25gr? Thanks much, Jack

November 11, 1999, 11:07 PM	#2
Grayfox Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 1998 Posts: 1,885	DO NOT REDUCE LOADS FOR W296! The Winchester data says this loud and clear. 296 is an excellent powder for magnum cartridges, but its real touchy about reduced loads. Check Winchester's website for more info. Sorry, I don't have the addy handy.

November 12, 1999, 01:11 AM	#3
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,947	Winchester reloading manual can be downloaded at: www.winchester.com/reloader/index.html

November 12, 1999, 01:42 AM	#4
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	It does no good for you, since it's second-hand as posted here, but... I have heard at least one (only 1? I furgit sometimes...) first-had report of reduced 296 loads failing to light up and leaving a bullet lodged midway down the bore. Comparing the old Speer loading data with Winchester, the Win data appeared to be at teh 3% reduced level already. However, the fact that Win used different bullets (of the same weight) makes such suppositions dangerous. Stick with the published load. If you want less flash, blast, and velocity, use something like Alliant's Power Pistol, which can be downloaded from max.

November 12, 1999, 11:51 AM	#5
Jack Straw Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 362	Thanks for the help guys. I can't find a Winchester guide at any of the gun stores and I've tried to download it twice, but for some reason my computer doesn't want me to have it. I wasn't really looking for reduced loads, but starting out with a max load, per se, just goes against all the safety rules I have learned (and my ingrained desire to keep all my fingers intact!). Jack

November 14, 1999, 03:44 PM	#6
Randy Garrett Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 1999 Location: Chehalis, WA Posts: 142	25-grains of 296 sounds a little too hot for starters, even considering that 296 is for maximum loads. Depending upon the relative hardness (or softness) of the bullet and the depth to which the design in question needs to be seated, I would start at about 22-grains and work up carefully.

November 14, 1999, 04:03 PM	#7
Randy Garrett Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 1999 Location: Chehalis, WA Posts: 142	25-grains of 296 sounds a little too hot for starters, even considering that 296 is for maximum loads. Depending upon the relative hardness (or softness) of the bullet and the depth to which the design in question needs to be seated, I would start at about 22-grains and work up carefully.

November 14, 1999, 05:39 PM	#8
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,947	Don't know if you guys know who Randy Garrett is, but if I were you, I'd listen closely to his advice. Good to see you here, and welcome aboard.

November 15, 1999, 04:20 PM	#9
Joefo Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 1999 Location: NY Posts: 165	Garrett Ammunition no? Joefo

November 15, 1999, 05:12 PM	#10
Desert Dog Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 1999 Location: Deep East Texas Posts: 474	I ditto Mal H... Welcome Mr Garrett... ------------------ "No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority" - Thomas Jefferson

November 18, 1999, 01:06 AM	#11
Spectre Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 23, 1998 Location: ATL Posts: 3,277	My word, the Lord is smilling on me. Mr.Garrett I am looking for a good load for my Anaconda in .45 Colt. I have tried 25 grs of 296 as per Loadbooks data with WLP primers and Hornady XTP 250 gr JHP's. Got very smokey lookin' cases after and decided to back off to 24 grs of 296. Recoil was reduced and the cases came out clean. Didn't have any pressure sign on the cases with either load. What would your recomendations be?

November 20, 1999, 06:27 PM	#12
Walt Welch Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 1998 Location: Alamo, CA Posts: 424	The problem with reduced loads of H-110 and W296 is a phenomenon called detonation. It is when the powder doesn't ignite in a normal way, but in some abnormal way, and this causes paradoxically high, VERY high pressures. Which can blow up guns. Factors favoring detonation are: low loading density, reduced loads, use of regular primers where magnum primers are called for, and possibly light crimp. Win makes Hodgdon powders, BTW, and the burning rates of H-110 and W296 are very close. I spoke to a technician at Hodgdon a while ago, and he stated that the detonation phenomenon was nearly impossible to duplicate in the laboratory, but it did occur, and he had personally seen it. Win DOES list 'reduced' loads for W296 in their latest loading manual, but only for one cartridge, the .454 Casull, and the 'reduced' loads generate 38,000-40,000psi. The full loads generate 50,000psi! I would follow the advice of Mr. Garret. He makes the world's best .44 Mag ammo. Walt

November 25, 1999, 10:05 AM	#13
Matt Member Join Date: September 14, 1999 Posts: 39	I've only been reloading for a couple of months now, but 44 mag with Winchester 296 is the first round I started loading. Winchester manual clearly states DO NOT REDUCE the charge and use a heavy crimp. It also states 296 is not good for light bullets. I've loaded about 2000 rounds and they've all been very accurate (much more accurate than reloads I had been buying at the range. I can actually get a group!). The Winchester manual shows some loads with 231 you can reduce. Hope this helps. ------------------ Thanks,Matt