"I Know where You Live"!

Half-Price Assassin · February 13, 2006, 01:05 PM

ok i am bored, and i was watching the movie, Punch Drunk Love, with adam sandler, and in the movie he does something stupid, he calls a phone sex line, and gives his real name and credit card number to the girl. after they talk, the next day the girl calls him, and and asks for money, he refuses, and she sends some thugs after him to collect $750. he pays them $500, and they beat him up, he then runs away, and as he is running from them, one thug says "why are you running, we know where you live", then they drive away. later in the film they try crash into his car and hurt in girlfriend, but he beats them up.

now here is the question, i have, if you being attacked or harassed, and a group of people yell they know where you live, is that considered a threat against your life, and your families life, to respond with deadly force? i know it sounds crazy, but in this day in age, normal people wouldnt say such a thing, and those that do should be taken seriously. i am wondering what you guys think, and what you would considerd if one person or a group tried to hurt you, then threated to come after you at home? what would you do in that moment? how would you respond, would you act, or ask for their names and numbers to call the police?

WhyteP38 · February 13, 2006, 01:19 PM

How about: "If you know where I live, then I know where you'll die."

Just kidding. I would shrug and say nothing. No reason to contribute to the situation. And since you can't predict the unexpected--that is, unknown BGs in addition to the punk(s) who threaten you--I already take a lot of precautions. At this point, there's not a whole lot more I can legally do.

If you've done your best to deal with the unexpected, you should already be ready for the semi-expected and the expected.

High Planes Drifter · February 13, 2006, 01:23 PM

now here is the question, i have, if you being attacked or harassed, and a group of people yell they know where you live, is that considered a threat against your life, and your families life, to respond with deadly force?
------------------------------------
No. They are not an immediate threat to your life. The use of deadly force against verbal threats are not - how you say, "smiled upon" in the court of law.

ETA: I re-read the question. If you are being attacked -PHYSICALY -and feel your life is in immediate danger then yes. But then your already past the point of clarifying intent with a verbal threat. Kind of like if someone was choking the crap out of you and you knew your life was in jeapordy and then they say, Im going to kill you. Well, you already knew that was his intent.

TBT · February 13, 2006, 01:24 PM

I think that would be a terroristic threat. Once your life isn't in clear and present danger you have to call the police. There is nothing else you can do. If you respond to a verbal threat with deadly force you will be spending a long time behind bars.

exar · February 13, 2006, 01:25 PM

you should call the police, thats the only thing you can legally do in that case. A verbal threat in no way shape or form constitutes you shooting someone, unless they are armed and obviously intent to do bodily harm.

WhyteP38 · February 13, 2006, 01:32 PM

Yep, call the police and file a report. I should have thought of that. Even if it's not a very credible threat, you should report it anyway, just in case. Also, by reporting it, you can prove that YOU took the threat seriously, so if later you need to justify use of deadly force, it will help. Otherwise, someone might ask why you used deadly force but didn't report the threat. Were you hoping to have an incident?

Harley Quinn · February 13, 2006, 02:31 PM

If you are paying for sex it is illegal and blah blah, but. Paying for the call is one thing, paying for the conversation is another.

So if these thugs beat you up, then is the time to make the report pictures etc. of the damage, the information that they are still coming for you, now you have done the right thing.

What has occured these times are felonies by the way.
So when they come to your house they are really looking for trouble in my opinion. (It happens a lot in the movies but not in real life as a general rule). Though it does happen so what you have done now is correct (the scenario, mine).

Now if it was a person who is older, and worried, and in fear of his life, he would shoot quicker and kill faster in my opinion, and have all the right in the world.

I certainly would not put myself in that prediciment but under the second scenario you have mentioned, I would think the report and going to the police very important.
Verbal assault is not physical assault, but the idea of them coming to your home after saying that is their demise.

HQ

rmagill · February 13, 2006, 02:55 PM

A similar thing happend to me at work over the summer at an amusement park. A group of people cut in front of a few hundred people and, per park policy, I asked them to go to the end of the line. Well, the one guy did not like that too well and said that he would "blow my head off". He then left the ride saying that he will remember what I look like. I filed a report with security and later that night Mr. Friendly comes back and verbally gets my attention saying he would not line-jump again (evidencing that he does indeed remember my description). Well, security was called and he was charged with harassment (could have been making Terroristic Threats, but the officer/DA didn't think it would stick too well in court).

In this situation, lethal force would not have been justified because, while he threatened to shoot me, he was not presenting/trying to present the means to do so. Part of the justifacation of using lethal force is that the subject must have a motive and the means to carry out a lethal attack. If the group does not have the means (disparity of force discounted for sake of arguement) to use lethal force on you, it is not a lethal force situtation.

However, I did press charges, one main reason being documentation. Now, if the person does decide to make good on the threat and I have to shoot him, well his motive is documented and the charge will show his past history of agression towards me.

Blackwater OPS · February 13, 2006, 05:18 PM

Quote:

No. They are not an immediate threat to your life.

Said it before I could.

Lutefisk · February 13, 2006, 05:39 PM

Verbal threats are not considered reason to use deadly force. Period.

SrtDog · February 14, 2006, 05:23 AM

I believe that "If you know where I live, then I know where you'll die" is an excellent response.

On a separate note. Assault by offer is assault in the 3rd degree. What that boils down to is if someone threatened you, and you actually felt fear for your wellbeing (i.e. you believed that they would carry out the threat). Usually a class c or d misdemeanor.

SrtDog · February 14, 2006, 05:26 AM

And, of course, if you use a weapon, its usually something around the lines of a armed criminal action.

Glockamolie · February 14, 2006, 06:36 PM

Sticks and stones may break my bones...

WhyteP38 · February 14, 2006, 06:42 PM

... but hardball will penetrate deeper.

M.E.Eldridge · February 15, 2006, 04:10 PM

If ever someone says that to me I'll just kind of smile oddly and look at them and say, "Gooood! I've got some extra ammo I need to burn off!"

Its a suitably vaque statement, vaque enough to be safe to utter but clear enought to imply the potentially deadly consequences of whatever idiocy they're contemplating.

Harley Quinn · February 15, 2006, 05:26 PM

Is another, the big followup.
They have come to carry out the threats and I have already informed the police.
I would not try to escalate it, they already have.
I would be ready, willing and able, to take it to the level they wish by being there in the first place.

That situation would lead me to believe and rightfully so I think, they are there to hurt me and mine. So someone is going to get hurt and hopefully it is them.

Stay inside call the police and see what happens.

HQ

Capt. Charlie · February 15, 2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

I would be ready, willing and able, to take it to the level they wish by being there in the first place.

Ditto Harley.... IF you see it coming. I've had this happen numerous times over the years, all job related. I'm sure you have to. A guy's juiced up and PO'd over getting arrested, and you get the old "I know where you live" (maybe, maybe not) comment. Most times I just blow it off, but I can't forget it, either. There's a nagging little worry in the back of my mind on each new threat, that this might be the read deal.

My home has its defenses, and I can deal with it if I'm there and awake. It's when my proverbial back is turned that I worry. Kinda hard to defend against a Molotov cocktail through the window at 0400.

Maybe I'm a little overly paranoid, but there is still a .38 caliber or 9mm hole through my kitchen window that happened while I wasn't home

.

Rainbow Six · February 15, 2006, 06:21 PM

Pick up the March 2006 issue of Combat Handguns and read Massad Ayoob's article on felons & deadly force for some insight into this topic. Basically though, without covering *at least* the checklist he outlines you would end up in serious poo if you used deadly force simply based on the verbal threat (and saying "I know where you live" won't fly as a "threat" in Georgia, or at least not in our judicial circuit) and didn't know how to articulate your actions better than just saying, "They said they knew where I lived. That scared me so I shot 'em." With that as your "statement", you probably need to stock up on soap on a rope.

Art Eatman · February 18, 2006, 06:03 PM

If you file a report, there is then a record of an antecedent condition. If something goes down later at your home, you're on record as not being overly-imaginative.

I was once a witness in a murder trial. The doer might have gotten a walk (according to a juror, later) but for one problem: He went to the other guy's house and the confrontation took place there.

Art

February 13, 2006, 01:05 PM	#1
Half-Price Assassin Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2005 Location: Oh Posts: 602	"I Know where You Live"! ok i am bored, and i was watching the movie, Punch Drunk Love, with adam sandler, and in the movie he does something stupid, he calls a phone sex line, and gives his real name and credit card number to the girl. after they talk, the next day the girl calls him, and and asks for money, he refuses, and she sends some thugs after him to collect $750. he pays them $500, and they beat him up, he then runs away, and as he is running from them, one thug says "why are you running, we know where you live", then they drive away. later in the film they try crash into his car and hurt in girlfriend, but he beats them up. now here is the question, i have, if you being attacked or harassed, and a group of people yell they know where you live, is that considered a threat against your life, and your families life, to respond with deadly force? i know it sounds crazy, but in this day in age, normal people wouldnt say such a thing, and those that do should be taken seriously. i am wondering what you guys think, and what you would considerd if one person or a group tried to hurt you, then threated to come after you at home? what would you do in that moment? how would you respond, would you act, or ask for their names and numbers to call the police? __________________ Bernhard Goetz Real American Hero HK Marketing Department's new slogan "HK. Because you suck. And we HATE you"

February 13, 2006, 02:31 PM	#7
Harley Quinn Junior member Join Date: August 30, 2005 Location: State of KALI Posts: 1,531	It gets iffy but... If you are paying for sex it is illegal and blah blah, but. Paying for the call is one thing, paying for the conversation is another. So if these thugs beat you up, then is the time to make the report pictures etc. of the damage, the information that they are still coming for you, now you have done the right thing. What has occured these times are felonies by the way. So when they come to your house they are really looking for trouble in my opinion. (It happens a lot in the movies but not in real life as a general rule). Though it does happen so what you have done now is correct (the scenario, mine). Now if it was a person who is older, and worried, and in fear of his life, he would shoot quicker and kill faster in my opinion, and have all the right in the world. I certainly would not put myself in that prediciment but under the second scenario you have mentioned, I would think the report and going to the police very important. Verbal assault is not physical assault, but the idea of them coming to your home after saying that is their demise. HQ

February 13, 2006, 05:39 PM	#10
Lutefisk Member Join Date: January 15, 2006 Posts: 48	No Verbal threats are not considered reason to use deadly force. Period.

February 14, 2006, 05:23 AM	#11
SrtDog Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 71	I believe that "If you know where I live, then I know where you'll die" is an excellent response. On a separate note. Assault by offer is assault in the 3rd degree. What that boils down to is if someone threatened you, and you actually felt fear for your wellbeing (i.e. you believed that they would carry out the threat). Usually a class c or d misdemeanor. __________________ When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion. - Abraham Lincoln I am a soldier, I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight. - General George Patton Jr If you're going through hell, keep going. - Winston Churchill

February 14, 2006, 05:26 AM	#12
SrtDog Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 71	And, of course, if you use a weapon, its usually something around the lines of a armed criminal action. __________________ When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion. - Abraham Lincoln I am a soldier, I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight. - General George Patton Jr If you're going through hell, keep going. - Winston Churchill

February 13, 2006, 01:19 PM	#2
WhyteP38 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2005 Location: Behind a keyboard. Posts: 1,565	How about: "If you know where I live, then I know where you'll die." Just kidding. I would shrug and say nothing. No reason to contribute to the situation. And since you can't predict the unexpected--that is, unknown BGs in addition to the punk(s) who threaten you--I already take a lot of precautions. At this point, there's not a whole lot more I can legally do. If you've done your best to deal with the unexpected, you should already be ready for the semi-expected and the expected.

February 13, 2006, 01:23 PM	#3
High Planes Drifter Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2005 Posts: 558	now here is the question, i have, if you being attacked or harassed, and a group of people yell they know where you live, is that considered a threat against your life, and your families life, to respond with deadly force? ------------------------------------ No. They are not an immediate threat to your life. The use of deadly force against verbal threats are not - how you say, "smiled upon" in the court of law. ETA: I re-read the question. If you are being attacked -PHYSICALY -and feel your life is in immediate danger then yes. But then your already past the point of clarifying intent with a verbal threat. Kind of like if someone was choking the crap out of you and you knew your life was in jeapordy and then they say, Im going to kill you. Well, you already knew that was his intent.

February 13, 2006, 01:24 PM	#4
TBT Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2005 Location: Pittsburgh Pa Posts: 971	I think that would be a terroristic threat. Once your life isn't in clear and present danger you have to call the police. There is nothing else you can do. If you respond to a verbal threat with deadly force you will be spending a long time behind bars.

February 13, 2006, 01:25 PM	#5
exar Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 224	you should call the police, thats the only thing you can legally do in that case. A verbal threat in no way shape or form constitutes you shooting someone, unless they are armed and obviously intent to do bodily harm.

February 13, 2006, 01:32 PM	#6
WhyteP38 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2005 Location: Behind a keyboard. Posts: 1,565	Yep, call the police and file a report. I should have thought of that. Even if it's not a very credible threat, you should report it anyway, just in case. Also, by reporting it, you can prove that YOU took the threat seriously, so if later you need to justify use of deadly force, it will help. Otherwise, someone might ask why you used deadly force but didn't report the threat. Were you hoping to have an incident?

February 13, 2006, 02:55 PM	#8
rmagill Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 142	A similar thing happend to me at work over the summer at an amusement park. A group of people cut in front of a few hundred people and, per park policy, I asked them to go to the end of the line. Well, the one guy did not like that too well and said that he would "blow my head off". He then left the ride saying that he will remember what I look like. I filed a report with security and later that night Mr. Friendly comes back and verbally gets my attention saying he would not line-jump again (evidencing that he does indeed remember my description). Well, security was called and he was charged with harassment (could have been making Terroristic Threats, but the officer/DA didn't think it would stick too well in court). In this situation, lethal force would not have been justified because, while he threatened to shoot me, he was not presenting/trying to present the means to do so. Part of the justifacation of using lethal force is that the subject must have a motive and the means to carry out a lethal attack. If the group does not have the means (disparity of force discounted for sake of arguement) to use lethal force on you, it is not a lethal force situtation. However, I did press charges, one main reason being documentation. Now, if the person does decide to make good on the threat and I have to shoot him, well his motive is documented and the charge will show his past history of agression towards me.

February 14, 2006, 06:36 PM	#13
Glockamolie Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 359	Sticks and stones may break my bones... __________________ Brandon

February 14, 2006, 06:42 PM	#14
WhyteP38 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2005 Location: Behind a keyboard. Posts: 1,565	... but hardball will penetrate deeper.

February 15, 2006, 04:10 PM	#15
M.E.Eldridge Member Join Date: February 14, 2006 Posts: 30	If ever someone says that to me I'll just kind of smile oddly and look at them and say, "Gooood! I've got some extra ammo I need to burn off!" Its a suitably vaque statement, vaque enough to be safe to utter but clear enought to imply the potentially deadly consequences of whatever idiocy they're contemplating. __________________ Rule .303: Taking care of assorted savages, heathens, man-eating lions and Nazis, worldwide, since 1889.

February 15, 2006, 05:26 PM	#16
Harley Quinn Junior member Join Date: August 30, 2005 Location: State of KALI Posts: 1,531	Attacked verbally is one thing coming to your house Is another, the big followup. They have come to carry out the threats and I have already informed the police. I would not try to escalate it, they already have. I would be ready, willing and able, to take it to the level they wish by being there in the first place. That situation would lead me to believe and rightfully so I think, they are there to hurt me and mine. So someone is going to get hurt and hopefully it is them. Stay inside call the police and see what happens. HQ

February 15, 2006, 06:21 PM	#18
Rainbow Six Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2000 Location: West Georgia, USA Posts: 1,314	Pick up the March 2006 issue of Combat Handguns and read Massad Ayoob's article on felons & deadly force for some insight into this topic. Basically though, without covering at least the checklist he outlines you would end up in serious poo if you used deadly force simply based on the verbal threat (and saying "I know where you live" won't fly as a "threat" in Georgia, or at least not in our judicial circuit) and didn't know how to articulate your actions better than just saying, "They said they knew where I lived. That scared me so I shot 'em." With that as your "statement", you probably need to stock up on soap on a rope. __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum... "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

February 18, 2006, 06:03 PM	#19
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	If you file a report, there is then a record of an antecedent condition. If something goes down later at your home, you're on record as not being overly-imaginative. I was once a witness in a murder trial. The doer might have gotten a walk (according to a juror, later) but for one problem: He went to the other guy's house and the confrontation took place there. Art