38 sp load in 357 Mag case. oops!

Longshot4 · October 7, 2015, 08:08 PM

I strongly suggest that you only load by the Manuals and always double check every thing before you seat the bullets.

Well I decided to load up some 38s to target practice. I'm not making a excuse although it's been a few years since I have worked with the 38 loads Bla bla bla I found what I recorded as a accurate load for 38s with 158gr. LSWC in my logs from 87. So I went with that. The problem seams to be that I lost my eye for case ID. So I loaded 357 Mag. cases with a lighter load than the old Speer Manual suggested.

I put 3.2gr. of Bullseye in the 357 cases. That happens to be .5gr. less than manual goes. I found out the mistake after I loaded a few and decided to continue. I decided to shoot them any way and make note of any odd sounds... That might indicate a bullet not leaving the barrel or explosions

and watch for each bullet on the target.

I was kind of surprised how well the load turned out. It shot some titer groups than I expected. The mod. 19 got a bit dirty but it's worth the accuracy. I will be trying it again but with 38 cases and I will try the 357 with the proper load of 3.7gr. of Bullseye.

Nick_C_S · October 7, 2015, 08:37 PM

It was Bullseye. I'm not surprised. B'eye ignites quickly and easily.

Besides, 3.2 grains isn't all that light. I go as low as 2.6gn for target in a 38 case, so an additional 0.6gn for the slightly longer 357 case is well within the realm of a useful (target) round.

Lost Sheep · October 8, 2015, 01:32 AM

If you have access to a chronograph, you can check the velocities. If you are getting above minimum 38 Special velocities, you can safely infer that you are getting 38 Special pressures in those 357 cases.

Even though the manuals do not give loads for 38 Special velocities coming out of .357 Magnum cases, scaling up case volume while maintaining the same pressure and getting the same velocity is (in my opinion) a safe practice as long as you are not radically changing the shape of the case or making a HUGE scale-up or scale-down.

Lost Sheep

Mobuck · October 8, 2015, 06:35 AM

My question is: How did you load to the specified OAL(for 38SP) and not notice immediately?

mineralman55 · October 8, 2015, 07:00 AM

Wondering the same thing. How do you set up the bullet seating/crimping die for .38 special, load a .357 case and not crush, or at least noticably wrinkle, the case?

TimSr · October 8, 2015, 07:38 AM

Speaking for myself, I don't measure OAL for revolver cartridges ever, and crimp in the cannelure. Very few cass bullets for a revolver even specify an OAL for their specific bullet. It takes me about 30 seconds to properly adjust seat and crimp with my 38/357 die set, and I don't try to remember what they were setup for last each time I do it.

FlyFish · October 8, 2015, 08:00 AM

When I make up target velocity loads for my .357s I always use .357 cases with .38 Special data, sometimes bumping the powder up a little, usually not. It avoids the ring of crud that can build up in the chambers where the shorter case ends, which can make inserting .357 length cases difficult. Yeah, I know you can clean it out with a little work, but why bother if you don't need to? Been doing that for about 40 years in maybe a dozen or so different .357 revolvers with no problems whatsoever. I have an old Hornady manual (3rd. Edition) that, for loading 148 gr wadcutters for the .357, simply says " . . . use .38 Special data." Works for me.

Real Gun · October 8, 2015, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Tim Sr - It takes me about 30 seconds to properly adjust seat and crimp with my 38/357 die set,

That seems unlikely.

Real Gun · October 8, 2015, 08:14 AM

Quote:

FlyFish - for the .357, simply says " . . . use .38 Special data."

You would think ammo makers would jump on that because of all the small guns rated as 357 Magnum but which need to be downgraded to 38 Special (or something lighter). I believe Hornady offers pink box for 38 Special but I am not sure about 357 Magnum, a "pink" version of which would be sort of an oxymoron, except that the guns are too small as a platform for the caliber.

I have a few guns that I really like but only because I can make the ammo for them.

mxsailor803 · October 8, 2015, 10:26 AM

I do the same thing as FlyFish. Never had a single issue. I do tend to run my .357 target loads a little warm but not even close to actual .357 mag vel.

Carriertxv · October 8, 2015, 10:32 AM

I'm not going to say it takes me "about 30 seconds to properly adjust seat and crimp" but it doesn't take more than a few minutes at the very most.

TimSr · October 8, 2015, 01:32 PM

Quote:

That seems unlikely.

I guess I'll have to post a video, but that statement was meant to be literal.

T. O'Heir · October 8, 2015, 01:50 PM

"...38 Sp. load in 357 Mag case..." 148 grain WC's with 2.7 of Bullseye for about 40 years with no fuss. Started with a 19 too. Makes the lube gunk ring in the cylinders go away.
3.2 of Bullseye is a starter .38 load for a cast 158. You won't get .357 velocities, but nothing bad will happen either.

sawdustdad · October 8, 2015, 03:34 PM

I'm loading 2.8g of 700x in a .357 case with a 125g lead or coated bullet. Works great. I use the .357 case for functioning reliability in a Rossi '92.

sghart3578 · October 8, 2015, 03:43 PM

2.7 gr of Bullseye, 158 gr cast bullet, 357 mag cases gives me outstanding accuracy and function in a Marlin 1894C.

It clocks at 870-880 fps is a squirrel and rabbit killer to about 30 yards. Haven't tried it further but wouldn't be surprised if it worked out to 50 yards plus.

Longshot4 · October 8, 2015, 03:52 PM

The loads shot with very good accuracy and I may stay in that area.

I really appreciate all of your input.

Since it has been at least 14 or more years since I loaded for the 38-357.
I pulled out some old boxes and ass u me d good when one box was full of primed and sized cases that I over looked the head stamps.

That's the way it seams to go around here lately. I'm just going to have to give my self a kick and practice what I preach.

luvs2hunt62 · October 9, 2015, 01:09 PM

I had an old reloading manual that had a section for reloading 357 cases to 38sp specs. I remember trying it to avoid the ring in the cylinder of my mod 66 S&W , and the sound was exactly like a squib, but a hole appeared in the bullseye. the load was extremely accurate, recoil about the same as my other 38 loads, but after I moved from 7 yds to 25, the loads ended up 3-6 inches low. I was shooting from a 6" barrel, but I gave the project up and never tried it again--that hollow squib sound just really unnerved me.

buck460XVR · October 9, 2015, 01:23 PM

Quote:

It takes me about 30 seconds to properly adjust seat and crimp with my 38/357 die set

Quote:

That seems unlikely.

I might not be as fast as TimSr, it might take me a whole 60 seconds, but it doesn't take long. I can't remember ever measuring OAL of a revolver cartridge, I just seat the bullet to the cannelure for proper crimp. I use so many different bullet profiles that I never even use the lock ring/screw, I just adjust seating and crimp with every batch. Not really a big deal.

October 7, 2015, 08:08 PM	#1
Longshot4 Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2014 Posts: 868	38 sp load in 357 Mag case. oops! I strongly suggest that you only load by the Manuals and always double check every thing before you seat the bullets. Well I decided to load up some 38s to target practice. I'm not making a excuse although it's been a few years since I have worked with the 38 loads Bla bla bla I found what I recorded as a accurate load for 38s with 158gr. LSWC in my logs from 87. So I went with that. The problem seams to be that I lost my eye for case ID. So I loaded 357 Mag. cases with a lighter load than the old Speer Manual suggested. I put 3.2gr. of Bullseye in the 357 cases. That happens to be .5gr. less than manual goes. I found out the mistake after I loaded a few and decided to continue. I decided to shoot them any way and make note of any odd sounds... That might indicate a bullet not leaving the barrel or explosions and watch for each bullet on the target. I was kind of surprised how well the load turned out. It shot some titer groups than I expected. The mod. 19 got a bit dirty but it's worth the accuracy. I will be trying it again but with 38 cases and I will try the 357 with the proper load of 3.7gr. of Bullseye.

October 7, 2015, 08:37 PM	#2
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,522	It was Bullseye. I'm not surprised. B'eye ignites quickly and easily. Besides, 3.2 grains isn't all that light. I go as low as 2.6gn for target in a 38 case, so an additional 0.6gn for the slightly longer 357 case is well within the realm of a useful (target) round. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

October 8, 2015, 01:32 AM	#3
Lost Sheep Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 3,341	Fast powders are forgiving of light loads If you have access to a chronograph, you can check the velocities. If you are getting above minimum 38 Special velocities, you can safely infer that you are getting 38 Special pressures in those 357 cases. Even though the manuals do not give loads for 38 Special velocities coming out of .357 Magnum cases, scaling up case volume while maintaining the same pressure and getting the same velocity is (in my opinion) a safe practice as long as you are not radically changing the shape of the case or making a HUGE scale-up or scale-down. Lost Sheep

October 8, 2015, 07:00 AM	#5
mineralman55 Member Join Date: September 29, 2009 Location: deep south Posts: 99	No Crimp? Wondering the same thing. How do you set up the bullet seating/crimping die for .38 special, load a .357 case and not crush, or at least noticably wrinkle, the case?

October 8, 2015, 08:00 AM	#7
FlyFish Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Overlooking the Baker River Valley Posts: 1,723	When I make up target velocity loads for my .357s I always use .357 cases with .38 Special data, sometimes bumping the powder up a little, usually not. It avoids the ring of crud that can build up in the chambers where the shorter case ends, which can make inserting .357 length cases difficult. Yeah, I know you can clean it out with a little work, but why bother if you don't need to? Been doing that for about 40 years in maybe a dozen or so different .357 revolvers with no problems whatsoever. I have an old Hornady manual (3rd. Edition) that, for loading 148 gr wadcutters for the .357, simply says " . . . use .38 Special data." Works for me. __________________ NRA Benefactor Life Member NRA Certified Instructor: Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, PPIH, Metallic & Shotgun Shell Reloading; RSO Pemigewasset Valley Fish & Game Club

October 8, 2015, 06:35 AM	#4
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	My question is: How did you load to the specified OAL(for 38SP) and not notice immediately?

October 8, 2015, 07:38 AM	#6
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	Speaking for myself, I don't measure OAL for revolver cartridges ever, and crimp in the cannelure. Very few cass bullets for a revolver even specify an OAL for their specific bullet. It takes me about 30 seconds to properly adjust seat and crimp with my 38/357 die set, and I don't try to remember what they were setup for last each time I do it.

October 8, 2015, 10:26 AM	#10
mxsailor803 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2010 Location: SC Posts: 1,344	I do the same thing as FlyFish. Never had a single issue. I do tend to run my .357 target loads a little warm but not even close to actual .357 mag vel.

October 8, 2015, 10:32 AM	#11
Carriertxv Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2013 Posts: 268	I'm not going to say it takes me "about 30 seconds to properly adjust seat and crimp" but it doesn't take more than a few minutes at the very most.

October 8, 2015, 01:50 PM	#13
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...38 Sp. load in 357 Mag case..." 148 grain WC's with 2.7 of Bullseye for about 40 years with no fuss. Started with a 19 too. Makes the lube gunk ring in the cylinders go away. 3.2 of Bullseye is a starter .38 load for a cast 158. You won't get .357 velocities, but nothing bad will happen either. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

October 8, 2015, 03:34 PM	#14
sawdustdad Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2014 Location: Virginia Posts: 484	I'm loading 2.8g of 700x in a .357 case with a 125g lead or coated bullet. Works great. I use the .357 case for functioning reliability in a Rossi '92.

October 8, 2015, 03:43 PM	#15
sghart3578 Member Join Date: August 30, 2015 Posts: 64	2.7 gr of Bullseye, 158 gr cast bullet, 357 mag cases gives me outstanding accuracy and function in a Marlin 1894C. It clocks at 870-880 fps is a squirrel and rabbit killer to about 30 yards. Haven't tried it further but wouldn't be surprised if it worked out to 50 yards plus.

October 8, 2015, 03:52 PM	#16
Longshot4 Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2014 Posts: 868	The loads shot with very good accuracy and I may stay in that area. I really appreciate all of your input. Since it has been at least 14 or more years since I loaded for the 38-357. I pulled out some old boxes and ass u me d good when one box was full of primed and sized cases that I over looked the head stamps. That's the way it seams to go around here lately. I'm just going to have to give my self a kick and practice what I preach.

October 9, 2015, 01:09 PM	#17
luvs2hunt62 Junior Member Join Date: August 31, 2007 Location: fl Posts: 7	38 sp reloading I had an old reloading manual that had a section for reloading 357 cases to 38sp specs. I remember trying it to avoid the ring in the cylinder of my mod 66 S&W , and the sound was exactly like a squib, but a hole appeared in the bullseye. the load was extremely accurate, recoil about the same as my other 38 loads, but after I moved from 7 yds to 25, the loads ended up 3-6 inches low. I was shooting from a 6" barrel, but I gave the project up and never tried it again--that hollow squib sound just really unnerved me.

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