Breathalyzer test required for Homecoming Dance - Page 8

hogdogs · September 16, 2011, 12:11 PM

Now... I may be more open to them sayin'...

"Everyone may be subject to a breathalyzer before being allowed to leave the premesis..."
In this way EVERYONE is outwardly invited to attend and the only ones who would need to worry about leaving on their own or leaving in the back of a cop car *are the ones drinking before or during the event.

In the wording of the warning, the use of "may" states that not everyone must be expected to blow but anyone can be.

Brent

MLeake · September 16, 2011, 12:17 PM

hogdogs, couple that with actual requirements on the school staff members to have Articulable Suspicion before testing, and I have no problem with it.

zincwarrior · September 16, 2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Now... I may be more open to them sayin'...

"Everyone may be subject to a breathalyzer before being allowed to leave the premesis..."

Or what? Its an extracurricular event. The school has no legal basis for holding anyone. In some jurisdicitons that could be considered illegal.

hogdogs · September 16, 2011, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Its an extracurricular event. The school has no legal basis for holding anyone. In some jurisdicitons that could be considered illegal.

If the child is committing a crime, on their property, and the crime could interfere with the safety of innocent drivers, I feel they can stand there and block the doors awaiting the cops to arrive...

But I doubt that is needed... I think the resource officer system would have genuine law enforcement representation right there who would immediately relieve the school faculty members of this by taking the child into their custody to handle the alcohol charges if needed.

Brent

oneounceload · September 16, 2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

oneounce, maybe... the thing is, they were testing the kids before they were admitted to the dance, not as they were leaving.

So those who want to drink before the dance will just not go. They'll drink elsewhere. In fact, it may push kids away from going to the dance, who otherwise would, because their friends who want to drink won't go to the dance. So the overall dance numbers go down, the overall other/drinking numbers go up.

Now they're out possibly drinking for longer (and in turn more) than they would have if they just had a few before the dance.

Furthermore, I doubt it's that tough to sneak in a flask or a few minis or probably even a few cans of beer. So they could be putting that down quickly in the bathroom stall at the dance, and leaving intoxicated anyway.

All I'm saying is, people will always find a way around the rules, and the lawsuits will come anyway.

Exactly, and them NOT drinking at the dance and thus exposing the school to a lawsuit is what the school is concerned about - not whether they are out somewhere else getting hammered and driving - if that happens and kids get killed, the school springs for some "grief counselors" (GEEZ!) to come for a day, but they won't be getting sued

It comes down to the issue of liability

aarondhgraham · September 16, 2011, 02:54 PM

That schools in our modern age should drop all extracurricular activities.

I am not advocating one way or another,,,
But many school systems are now considering this option.

As an educator though I would not be sad if schools dropped dances and parties altogether

In this day and age there is no reason that private entities can't perform and host these functions.

They serve no educational purpose, so why should the scarce monetary and personnel resources of our schools be allocated to these events.

Several research studies have indicated that the social aspect of modern school life detracts greatly from the primary mission of education.

Our teachers have enough to do towards their primary mission without the burden of extracurricular events consuming their time and energies.

Tradition (and society's unwillingness do host these events privately) are truly the only reasons they continue happening today.

I say solve the problem of drinking at school dances by not having any school sponsored dances.

There are plenty of private entities who would love the opportunity to make money off of that business.

Aarond

jgcoastie · September 16, 2011, 04:59 PM

Ok, I've heard this term a couple of times, but forgive me for asking this (seemingly) dumb question...

What in the name of Billy Bob's prized blue ribbon hog Betsy is a school resource officer? Sounds like a paper-clip or ream of paper accountability clerk... but I'm led to believe it's a LEO of some form or another???

Break it down please?

jgcoastie · September 16, 2011, 05:07 PM

To touch on Aarond's post...

I was homeschooled for the latter majority of my K-12 education. The local school system did not have ANYthing to do with ANY social functions. The parents and local business leaders sponsored events such as prom, homecoming dances, spring/winter formals, etc. Which is the only way I was able to attend such functions...

Oughta be a strict policy for each school district... Especially given the financial burden most school districs are under, not to mention the infinate liabilities involved. Frivilous school-sponsored activities like dances and such should go the way of the dodo bird and use that money (sometimes in the tens of thousands of dollars) for something useful, like buying local land and then leasing it out to farmers to plant crops (a very practical source of revenue for the school district).

oneounceload · September 16, 2011, 07:39 PM

Quote:

school resource officer?

School cop

Quote:

Our teachers have enough to do towards their primary mission without the burden of extracurricular events consuming their time and energies.

Spent many a night waiting to do parent-teacher conferences and then they never show......then they wonder what is happening with their kid in school - (and I taught elementary)

After a few years, the BS just makes you quit

hogdogs · September 17, 2011, 08:14 AM

Yeah... Sorry... In Florida they are called "School Resource Officer" and are sheriff dept. officer who has a little office at the school and he is "the leo for that school"...

Full officer power and a gun on his hip and all the accoutrements.

Brent

jgcoastie · September 17, 2011, 09:40 AM

Brent, hmm... Seems like they'd be called a Sherriff's Deputy to me... But I guess it's just another feel-good PC euphemism...

JerryM · September 17, 2011, 09:54 AM

[Frivilous school-sponsored activities like dances and such should go the way of the dodo bird and use that money (sometimes in the tens of thousands of dollars) for something useful..]

Agree.
Jerry

shortwave · September 17, 2011, 09:58 AM

Quote:

In Florida they are called "School Resource Officer"...

Sounds like what they used to call a "Truant Officer" here in Ohio. I'm sure today, the name has been changed to sound more politically correct.

Probably something like a 'School Absenteeism Engineer' or 'School Social Behavioral Instructor'

As we all know, 'Truant Officer' just sounds so demeaning these days.

Excuse me while I go clean the barf off my keyboard.

Glenn E. Meyer · September 17, 2011, 10:06 AM

While a touch off topic, I talk to many students who go to college to play ball. Miss many classes for practice. Not like they are going to the NBA or NFL.

Coaches say that being on the local college team helps you get a job selling cars and trucks at the local dealership to FOGs.

So now that I strayed - perhaps we should get back to the CR issue.

MLeake · September 17, 2011, 10:55 AM

shortwave, "truant officers" rounded up kids who were skipping school.

"School resource officers" etc are assigned to the school, and have an office at the school.

The assistant wrestling coach for my high school team was the school resource officer; he was a patrol cop from the city PD, assigned to the school for a while, before he went back to patrol.

Good guy, and pretty low-key. Talked to students like they were humans, etc. He'd have been the type to quietly check out a possibly inebriated kid, and then hand them off either to a coach or their parents.

Hitthespot · September 17, 2011, 11:02 AM

After speaking to my son and to another neighbor student, apparently there are police officers there while the breathalyzer tests are performed. I guess it makes since but now I'm really reminded of the Gestapo.

Quote:

While a touch off topic, I talk to many students who go to college to play ball. Miss many classes for practice. Not like they are going to the NBA or NFL.

Coaches say that being on the local college team helps you get a job selling cars and trucks at the local dealership to FOGs.

So now that I strayed - perhaps we should get back to the CR issue.

All I can say is " LOL ". I'm reading this thinking, what the heck, this is a mod writing this? OH I get it......................

shortwave · September 17, 2011, 05:35 PM

Quote:

"School resources officers" etc. are assigned to the school, and have an office at the school.

We had one officer that was assigned to our high school.

He handled all truancy, attended all extra-curricular activities as well as handled anything he saw fit during school hours.

He was a middle-aged guy, about 6'7" and went about 260-270lbs. Had a set off meat-hooks on him like a grizzly bear. Was quite and had a very deep bass voice. Didn't like repeating himself and would snatch ahold of ya in a heartbeat.

Needless to say, we were rather intimidated by him(scared to death really

). I saw him on more than one occasion snatch a couple kids fighting (one in each hand) and lift them clear off the ground till he got their attention. If a kid was giving a teacher problems, the teacher would usually say something to the effect of, "If you don't straighten out, I'm going to go get Mr. Krudebach". That usually settled things.

If he busted you doing something, unless it was really bad, he'd take you in his office, make an incident report and never bother to notify your parents.

I missed the bus one morning in January. Cold as anything. Had about 8mi to walk. I was about three mi. from the school when he happened down the road. He made a u-turn, pulled up behind me and motioned me back to the cruiser. Asked me why I was walking. I told him I missed the bus. The only thing he said was, "the cure for that is getting up earlier"... as he reached down and turned the heat up.
He never abused his authority and had the respect of most the kids for doing things the way he did.

I had been graduated for about ten yrs. when I went back to the same school to attend a football game on Friday night. Guess who was there, Sgt. Krudebach. Still doing his thing keeping order at the games....

...and by the way...he worked these after school activities, donating his time towards watching the kids. I didn't know this till after I had graduated and my dad told me about him. I walked up and thanked him for keeping an eye on me during my heathenistic years.

Edward429451 · September 17, 2011, 06:27 PM

I've known people that let the kids have their party at home with their friends so they could be supervised to not drive or be out where they could get into trouble with the law...Not a terrible idea, bettern the kids drinking in someones car.

Mr. James · September 17, 2011, 08:23 PM

In this jurisdiction (Fairfax County, Virginia), the "school resource officer" is a fully commissioned and equipped Fairfax County Police officer, complete with a cruiser in county colors. He is posted there full time - that's his beat. The local high school, with 3,200 stoodints, has two of them.

Dear Lord, it's worse than I thought:

Quote:

Every school in Fairfax County is assigned an SRO, who works closely with the principal of each school to ensure the school and its students are as safe as possible throughout the year.

Gee, I guess a Columbine is inconceivable.

MrWesson · September 18, 2011, 07:45 PM

Breathalyze the kids leaving not the ones entering..

Don't have a problem with 17-18yr old kids drinking in a semi-controlled environment(aka no driving).

oneounceload · September 18, 2011, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Don't have a problem with 17-18yr old kids drinking in a semi-controlled environment(aka no driving).

Maybe YOU do not, but it is illegal for them to do it and for you to allow it at your home. Again, that issue leaves the school holding the liability bag - something they cannot afford to do

Carry_24/7 · September 18, 2011, 10:34 PM

The schools do what they can to protect the good kids from the ones who come from homes where they are allowed to do whatever they want to do. I have a teenager in high school and am very thankful for this. I don't allow my kids to drink at home, and will not tolerate it it anywhere else.

Government conspiracy theorists; if you don't want your kids alcohol tested like everyone else before entering a school function, I support you in pushing for your rights, let your kids stay at home with you. The rest of us, including the school resource officer and the sheriffs deputies forever in attendance, all hoping for an "uneventful" night will not mind.

MrWesson · September 18, 2011, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Maybe YOU do not, but it is illegal for them to do it and for you to allow it at your home. Again, that issue leaves the school holding the liability bag - something they cannot afford to do

I really don't know anyone of that age but remember being that age and have some friends who didn't touch booze until college(legal age) and a couple of them didn't make it out alive.

It is what it is.. when in Italy where the drinking age is 14 they have a low occurrence of DUI and DUI related deaths because the youngins get it out of their system early and its not so taboo.

MY take on the whole thing but here its illegal and the legal ramifications of the school would be pretty huge if they allow it.

I still think breathalyzing them afterwards to make sure they dont drive away drunk would be the more responsible way to do it(surprise of course). Seems better than telling them ahead of time so they go elsewhere and get drunk.

trophyrider · September 19, 2011, 11:36 AM

This is a short summation of a few Supreme Court decisions concerning search and seizure. It makes clear what schools are allowed to do.

http://www.cuddymccarthy.com/events_..._July_2008.pdf

langenc · September 19, 2011, 06:30 PM

Lots of 'ideas' here and lots ready to give up rights.

I wonder if the school chaperones and teachers attending would also have to blow in the machine?? Why not??

""It is what it is.. when in Italy where the drinking age is 14 they have a low occurrence of DUI and DUI related deaths because the youngins get it out of their system early and its not so taboo."" copied from #198

Yes, and Europe, et all, dont mess with DUIs. They are very severe. You dont get 3 or 4 'guilties' and still drive.

September 16, 2011, 12:11 PM	#176
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Now... I may be more open to them sayin'... *"Everyone may be subject to a breathalyzer before being allowed to leave the premesis..."* In this way EVERYONE is outwardly invited to attend and the only ones who would need to worry about leaving on their own or leaving in the back of a cop car are the ones drinking before or during the event. In the wording of the warning, the use of "may" states that not everyone must be expected to blow but anyone can be. Brent Last edited by hogdogs; September 16, 2011 at 12:40 PM. Reason: completed a sentence... ol' timers...

September 16, 2011, 02:54 PM	#181
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	This goes far towards the argument,,, That schools in our modern age should drop all extracurricular activities. I am not advocating one way or another,,, But many school systems are now considering this option. As an educator though I would not be sad if schools dropped dances and parties altogether In this day and age there is no reason that private entities can't perform and host these functions. They serve no educational purpose, so why should the scarce monetary and personnel resources of our schools be allocated to these events. Several research studies have indicated that the social aspect of modern school life detracts greatly from the primary mission of education. Our teachers have enough to do towards their primary mission without the burden of extracurricular events consuming their time and energies. Tradition (and society's unwillingness do host these events privately) are truly the only reasons they continue happening today. I say solve the problem of drinking at school dances by not having any school sponsored dances. There are plenty of private entities who would love the opportunity to make money off of that business. Aarond __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

September 16, 2011, 04:59 PM	#182
jgcoastie Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Location: Kodiak, Alaska Posts: 2,118	Ok, I've heard this term a couple of times, but forgive me for asking this (seemingly) dumb question... What in the name of Billy Bob's prized blue ribbon hog Betsy is a school resource officer? Sounds like a paper-clip or ream of paper accountability clerk... but I'm led to believe it's a LEO of some form or another??? Break it down please? __________________ "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.

September 16, 2011, 05:07 PM	#183
jgcoastie Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Location: Kodiak, Alaska Posts: 2,118	To touch on Aarond's post... I was homeschooled for the latter majority of my K-12 education. The local school system did not have ANYthing to do with ANY social functions. The parents and local business leaders sponsored events such as prom, homecoming dances, spring/winter formals, etc. Which is the only way I was able to attend such functions... Oughta be a strict policy for each school district... Especially given the financial burden most school districs are under, not to mention the infinate liabilities involved. Frivilous school-sponsored activities like dances and such should go the way of the dodo bird and use that money (sometimes in the tens of thousands of dollars) for something useful, like buying local land and then leasing it out to farmers to plant crops (a very practical source of revenue for the school district). __________________ "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.

September 17, 2011, 09:40 AM	#186
jgcoastie Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Location: Kodiak, Alaska Posts: 2,118	Brent, hmm... Seems like they'd be called a Sherriff's Deputy to me... But I guess it's just another feel-good PC euphemism... __________________ "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.

September 16, 2011, 12:17 PM	#177
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	hogdogs, couple that with actual requirements on the school staff members to have Articulable Suspicion before testing, and I have no problem with it.

September 17, 2011, 08:14 AM	#185
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Yeah... Sorry... In Florida they are called "School Resource Officer" and are sheriff dept. officer who has a little office at the school and he is "the leo for that school"... Full officer power and a gun on his hip and all the accoutrements. Brent

September 17, 2011, 09:54 AM	#187
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	[Frivilous school-sponsored activities like dances and such should go the way of the dodo bird and use that money (sometimes in the tens of thousands of dollars) for something useful..] Agree. Jerry __________________ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

September 17, 2011, 10:06 AM	#189
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	While a touch off topic, I talk to many students who go to college to play ball. Miss many classes for practice. Not like they are going to the NBA or NFL. Coaches say that being on the local college team helps you get a job selling cars and trucks at the local dealership to FOGs. So now that I strayed - perhaps we should get back to the CR issue. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

September 17, 2011, 10:55 AM	#190
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	shortwave, "truant officers" rounded up kids who were skipping school. "School resource officers" etc are assigned to the school, and have an office at the school. The assistant wrestling coach for my high school team was the school resource officer; he was a patrol cop from the city PD, assigned to the school for a while, before he went back to patrol. Good guy, and pretty low-key. Talked to students like they were humans, etc. He'd have been the type to quietly check out a possibly inebriated kid, and then hand them off either to a coach or their parents.

September 17, 2011, 06:27 PM	#193
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I've known people that let the kids have their party at home with their friends so they could be supervised to not drive or be out where they could get into trouble with the law...Not a terrible idea, bettern the kids drinking in someones car.

September 18, 2011, 07:45 PM	#195
MrWesson Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2010 Posts: 357	Breathalyze the kids leaving not the ones entering.. Don't have a problem with 17-18yr old kids drinking in a semi-controlled environment(aka no driving).

September 18, 2011, 10:34 PM	#197
Carry_24/7 Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2011 Posts: 801	The schools do what they can to protect the good kids from the ones who come from homes where they are allowed to do whatever they want to do. I have a teenager in high school and am very thankful for this. I don't allow my kids to drink at home, and will not tolerate it it anywhere else. Government conspiracy theorists; if you don't want your kids alcohol tested like everyone else before entering a school function, I support you in pushing for your rights, let your kids stay at home with you. The rest of us, including the school resource officer and the sheriffs deputies forever in attendance, all hoping for an "uneventful" night will not mind.

September 19, 2011, 11:36 AM	#199
trophyrider Member Join Date: October 10, 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 56	This is a short summation of a few Supreme Court decisions concerning search and seizure. It makes clear what schools are allowed to do. http://www.cuddymccarthy.com/events_..._July_2008.pdf

September 19, 2011, 06:30 PM	#200
langenc Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2007 Location: Montmorency Co, MI Posts: 1,551	Lots of 'ideas' here and lots ready to give up rights. I wonder if the school chaperones and teachers attending would also have to blow in the machine?? Why not?? ""It is what it is.. when in Italy where the drinking age is 14 they have a low occurrence of DUI and DUI related deaths because the youngins get it out of their system early and its not so taboo."" copied from #198 Yes, and Europe, et all, dont mess with DUIs. They are very severe. You dont get 3 or 4 'guilties' and still drive.