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April 11, 2010, 04:54 PM | #26 | |||
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April 11, 2010, 05:27 PM | #27 |
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The Urban TAP in the orange boxes (it looks orange on my computer screen but more reddish in my storage bin) comes in polished brass casings. I think the stuff in the black boxes is the nickel-plated stuff.
The Urban TAP and the black-box TAP are supposedly different, but I'm not clear what those differences are. Their informational materials that I've read seem like legalistic dances around what they are really trying to tell you. |
April 11, 2010, 05:52 PM | #28 |
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I don't see that stuff listed on the Hornady website. All I see is the nickel stuff.
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April 11, 2010, 06:08 PM | #29 |
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Try the links that I posted on page 1 of this thread.
Also, since I can't speak with knowledge to the differences between the two types of TAP, I can't tell you which type performs better. All I can really say is that the Urban TAP is brass-cased, and the other TAP is nickel-cased. Could be the the nickel-cased TAP really is better .. or vice versa ... or about the same. |
April 11, 2010, 06:34 PM | #30 | |
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I have no problem being proven wrong. I do, however, have a problem with being wrongfully accused simply b/c some folks lack reading comprehension skills and/or have an axe to grind. |
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April 11, 2010, 06:48 PM | #31 | ||
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I hope you take those two facts into consideration. |
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April 11, 2010, 06:50 PM | #32 |
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RT, interesting image.
Do you have the link to the original page still available? |
April 11, 2010, 06:56 PM | #33 |
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I recall seeing those images on the Federal ammo page, but I don't have a link.
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April 11, 2010, 07:02 PM | #34 | |
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In my defense, however, the post immediately following mine cast a bad light on my response and the first paragraph of your reply, immediately following said reply and lacking a preceding quote to define or qualify it beyond the preceding post (whereas other quotes were sunsequently present in the body of text), led me to believe you were echoing his sentiments. Again, if I was wrong to jump the gun, I own it and I am sorry. |
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April 11, 2010, 07:07 PM | #35 |
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No worries.
Communications are rarely precise, and Internet forums and e-mail are relatively poor communication tools. Understanding should be the rule when people are honest about their intentions, such as yourself. |
April 11, 2010, 07:55 PM | #36 | |
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April 11, 2010, 09:08 PM | #37 | |
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All this gerrymandering with being Hauge compliant is one reason why I don't bother too much with those rounds. I go with something that is designed from the start to expand. That and the fact that my .223s are all 1-9" and slower. I've heard good things about the Speer 70 grain Semi-Spitzer and thought about trying them out.
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April 12, 2010, 10:35 PM | #38 |
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Bartholomew roberts, when I posted:
"Im with mike38 on this. I dont believe that a rifle (other than a 12 guage) is the optimum weapon to use for defense." I am thinking for home defense. Its alot easier to grab and to move a handgun around in your house in middle of the night than it is for a full sized rifle. Even then, the 12 guage is questionable for easy movement in doorways, or from room to room. Just so were clear, I wasnt stating that a rifle a ISNT capable of self defense but that a pistol is a better option in a real life situation that most of us would find ourself in. |
April 13, 2010, 08:44 AM | #39 | |
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April 13, 2010, 01:55 PM | #40 | |
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April 14, 2010, 10:17 PM | #41 |
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Rifles should not be used for defense........
Taken at straight face value, the statement is obviously wrong. However, one needs to understand the reasoning behind the very poorly worded advice.
Obviously, when in gravest extreme, one uses what ever one has. But the intent of the advice is that a rifle should not be chosen as a personal defense firearm for most situations. And by most situations, what is meant is the defensive situations that apply to an ordinary civilian. The rifle's size, power, and range make it better suited to offensive action than a shotgun or handgun. That's why we use them in combat. Pistols, shoguns, submachineguns, and machine guns have a place in combat, each one being better suited for some things than others. But combat is NOT personal defense. I have a hard time coming up with a situation where a civilian would be justified shooting (defending) themselves at long range. And by long range, I mean 50yds or more. Even those of us who live way out in the country where we might shoot pests at long range would be hard pressed to justify shooting a human at that distance while claiming self defense. Those kinds of situations are so rare in the US as to be virtually non existant. That is why, for personal defense, for the majority of us, a handgun or shotgun is the recommended choice. Forget Hollywood and the TV, real life means you can only shoot when your life is endangered. And that means close range. Having a rifle is important. No question. If you ever are in one of the (currently) extremely rare situations where you need it, you will need it badly. However, chosing a rifle as your primary defensive arm (even a short carbine) is not the best choice. Now, if all you have is a rifle, or the local laws prevent you from having a pistol (or shotgun), then, by all means, learn it, so you can use it, at need. But you shouldn't choose the rifle as your sole means of defense if you can help it. There are better tools available, particularly if you are in an urban setting. There is also one other reason our military uses FMJ, a practical one, seldom mentioned. It has nothing to do with the "wounding take 2-3 guys out of the fight" logic (which is generally flawed, anyway). It is the simple fact that under the worst conditions, FMJ feeds the best. Not so important today as it once was, but still a basic reality. For military use (not even remotely the same thing as civilian personal defense) FMJ works well enough, and functions as reliably as anything man made. Besides, even though we didn't sign the Hague and Geneva accords, we, being the "good guys" abide by their strictures, by choice. Lately, we have even been considering abiding by their rules even more, as the restictions on ammo type apply only to "uniformed combatants of warring nations which are signatories to the accords". It is perfectly legal under the accords to shoot terrorists with hollowpoints!
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April 15, 2010, 02:25 AM | #42 | |
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Which is reasonable, since if you think about it, any spitzer type bullet will tumble in tissue creating a more severe wound channel, so if everyone wanted to be 110% compliant with the true spirit of the Hague agreements we'd all still be shooting round nosed projectiles. |
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carbine , city , defensive , lake |
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