k31 ammunition? we need to find a place to buy from. PRICE HIKE

the_collector · January 4, 2011, 01:10 AM

I normally have bought my ammo from midwayusa.com but Jan 1st they upped a lot of their prices. They DOUBLED the cost of 7.5x55 swiss surplus ammo!
It is now
12.99 for 10
515..99 for 480
69.99 for 60

I cant believe it! In December I bought 120 rds for 72$

Is there anywhere else I can buy the surplus ammo from?

kadima · January 4, 2011, 04:42 AM

You may consider reloading, anyway there is a wonderful (mainly)US based Schmidt-Rubin forum where you mind find more info:
theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/forums

HTH
K.

salvadore · January 4, 2011, 07:19 AM

http://classicarms.us/ammunition.htm

Scroll down towards the bottom of the page for surplus Swiss surplus.

zfk55 · January 4, 2011, 10:19 AM

You really should consider reloading with a bare bones setup. A simple one stage press with a primer seater, a trimmer, a set of 7.5x55 dies, a one pound can of powder, a box of primers and a scale. Not much involved to do one caliber cartridge.
There's a wealth of load data available from regular k31 shooters.
Sooner of later the GP11 is going to dry up. There hasn't been any manufactured for a very long time now and everything you're seeing here in the US is from Swiss Armoury storage. It will go away before you know it.
Good brass and 175gr projectiles will duplicate the GP11 if you have the right load data info.

I forgot to mention that sanctioned Swiss Shooting Clubs will be (and are now) getting the bulk of available GP11 before any other sales, and when it gets down to the bottom, they're the ones who will get it.

The last rifle to require GP11 is now more or less retired from service.
Latigo

Flintlock Tom · January 4, 2011, 03:12 PM

J&G Sales, in Arizona, still has it for $36.90 per 60 and it gets cheaper the more you buy.
J&G Sales 7.5 Swiss
And for slightly more they have re-loadable Wolf Gold.

the_collector · January 4, 2011, 03:40 PM

I dont have the time/room for any equipment right now but reloading is something i plan for in the future. Its more convenient to buy surplus right now.
But i really appreciate the info, it is something i will be looking into

zfk55 · January 4, 2011, 06:21 PM

TC, when you're ready email me at [email protected] and I'll help you. My father is the one who's archives on k31 and Swiss Rifles reloading data and method is on a dedicated Swiss Forum. I'll steer you right to the place you'll need to be for reloading a k31. Save your pennies.

Latigo

DoctorXring · January 4, 2011, 11:26 PM

.

The last GP11 was loaded in 1995. The swiss have mountains of
it. It won't go dry anytime soon....

QUOTE -- Sooner of later the GP11 is going to dry up. There hasn't been any manufactured for a very long time now and everything you're seeing here in the US is from Swiss Armoury storage. It will go away before you know it.

But without a doubt reloading is the best option as this rifle performs
beautifully with any 30 caliber bullet that I've shot in it.

.

Volucris · January 5, 2011, 01:14 AM

MidwayUSA is expensive on everything and has high shipping. Their only merit is that they have lots of stuff. I buy my reloading gear from Grafs since they're less than 200 miles from me.

Shop around. Look:
http://wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=18|830|855
and
http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/575.php

If you want cheaper 7.5 Swiss you need to start reloading. Get a basic single-stage press, an RCBS 505 scale (or RCBS Chargemaster setup or Redding 1010), buy some good dies, and get your brass online for about $.40 apiece. Then just get .308" bullets and go to town.

kadima · January 5, 2011, 05:06 AM

I am typing from close to the Swiss border, in Northern Italy. Seldom (unfortunately) I shoot there and I have been told that the last batch of GP11 was made in the nineties, however, since there the GP11 are no more used by the Armée, they still have some millions round in storage.

Since the K31 and The Stgw57 are still widely used for sporting purposes, if the supply dries up there are plans at the Swiss federal ammunition factory to restart manufacture. Unfortunately I presume that the new production ammunitions will not be as cheap as the current surplus ones...

K.

darkgael · January 5, 2011, 07:27 AM

Collector:

Quote:

I don't have the time/room for any equipment right now but reloading is something i plan for in the future.

I used to think like that. Live in a small apartment.
A hand press, a set of dies, a priming tool, primers, powder, powder dippers, bullets - all fit into something the size of a shoe box or a small tool box.
As for time.....you do bits here and there. Size and deprime 20 cases. Takes five minutes. A day later, you prime them. Got a spare ten minutes? Drop the powder charge and seat the bullets for 5, 10, 20.
Even if you can only get a box of 20 done between shoots, you'll have saved yourself some bucks; you can load a box of 20 very shootable and accurate cartridges for about $11.00.
Pete

zfk55 · January 5, 2011, 09:56 AM

This one interests me. I sent two enquiries about this. I have an answer from the first one. He's in Europe and reuglarly buys and sells all things Swiss.
This is his answer.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Hard to answer that one as there are no official statements about the ammo numbers left and SM Thun is owned by RUAG and no longer a state factory. Gun laws in Switzerland are changing all the time and do belong to the most strict European laws now, when there are fewer guns around there is also less ammo needed.
RUAG already made commercial 7.5 X 55 with boxer primers and they can start that up any time, just the bullets shall be the Sierra ones.'
---------------------------------------------------------------

The second is to our distributor in Switzerland. He works regularly with the Swiss Shooting Society and RUAG in Bern. I should have an inside answer by tomorrow.

Also, Kadima, what is your source for this information about how much GP11 is in storage, and since there is no longer a "Swiss Federal Ammunition Factory", what is your source for saying that RUAG would begin making GP11 again?

Latigo

zfk55 · January 5, 2011, 10:36 AM

And the answer came a lot sooner than I thought!
This one you can take to the bank.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The last year of GP11 production was 1994 or 95. The MG51 is still in use
on some tanks and other vehicles, this may change in near future if the
planned
Army reduction to 80'000 go's ahead.

The GP11with late 70's and mid 80's head-stamp is actually junk intended to
be
melted down. The Army usually destroys all small arms ammo after 20 years of
storage. So the last batch of GP11 will surpass its regular shelf life in
about 4 years.

We can still order GP11 by the pallet from RUAG, for the official government
price of CHF 0,34 - that's about 37 US cents per round.

The machinery to produce GP11 has been scrap & the Army has no demand
= no more GP11 !!!! RUAG is manufacturing commercial 7,5x55 hunting,
sporting
and law enforcement ammo with components like Sierra bullets, at a price
tag of
USD 50 - 90 for the box of 20.

Investing in one or two full sized shipping containers - filled with GP11
may pay
a good dividend in a few years time.

zfk55 · January 6, 2011, 09:46 AM

Quote:
The last GP11 was loaded in 1995. The swiss have mountains of
it. It won't go dry anytime soon....

So I have to wonder how big those mountains really are. Foothills maybe?

I have a new enquiry as to a rough available inventory estimate. That one may take a while, but I'll post it here when I get an answer.

Latigo

Ignition Override · January 7, 2011, 03:44 AM

DoctorXring/kadima:
My question is whether the Swiss government is allowed (by the UN Small Arms Treaty etc) to export more military or commercial ammo to the US.

The Greeks supposedly have lots of British caliber .303 ammo ("HXP"), but exports are said to be prohibited, at least to the US.
There is a British/Euro arms "control" organization which pays countries such as South Africa and many others (some former Soviet lands) to destroy both surplus ammo and rifles.

Stopping AKs from going to war lords is their main objective, but South African shops have reportedly been ordered to destroy lots of Lee-Enfield bolt-action rifles and Brens.
This was witnessed months ago by the S.A. friend of an Aussie guy on "Gunboards", or "Surplusrifle".

zfk55 · January 7, 2011, 07:56 AM

I'm not either of those two gentlemen, but my Distributor is Swiss and he works very closely with all things Swiss Military and surplus. Its his business.

The answer is yes. GP11 may be and still is imported into the US, or at least until protests and submissions from the left leaning Cantons in Switzerland win over. The manufacturer of current 7.5 commercial ammo is RUAG, and they sell world wide.

zfk55

kadima · January 11, 2011, 09:15 AM

Ciao Latigo,
I am the same andrea of the swissriflesdotcom forum.
The source about the GP11 current storage and availability comes from a paper by Heinz Frutiger, chief of the "Civilian Markmanship Program" of the Swiss Army, in the website of the Swiss Shooting association here:
http://www.ftst.ch/media/1886301904.pdf

I am sorry it's in Italian, but after all the official languages of Switzerland are Italian, German, French and Romancio, English isn't among them...

However what I said in my earlier post is a more or less effective translation of the linked document (apart from the exact number of ammo available that comes from a firing range cafeteria guesstimation and may have been influenced by a few bottles of Chianti that I brought from Tuscany....)

K. aka Andrea

Andrea

zfk55 · January 11, 2011, 09:39 AM

Hey! Andrea! Good to see you.
I've been trying to find a way to highlight the copy for translation for the TFL board, but its in a jpg format and it's not working.
Is there a way for you to open it here so I can highlight the copy and translate it? Or send it to me at [email protected] ?

I forgot to mention that our distributor is our source. He owns AFA in Switzerland, and he's also the one who got our Diopter approved by the SSV for world-wide sanctioned Swiss shoots. It took him 7 years and a bunch of prototypes to get that approval for us from the Swiss.
Is the Chianti all gone now?

Latigo

kadima · January 12, 2011, 04:40 AM

Here is a hurried up translation. I beg for pardon for any mistake in English since now, given that my mother tongue is Italian and as an "excusatio non petita" I must add that the Italian paper obtained through the Swiss Shooters Association of Canton Ticino is in itself a translation from the original paper that was written in German.

Latigo, there is always a batch of Chianti lying somewhere in my house... BTW, the Swiss friend who made a guesstimation of the availale stocks isn't Herr Frutiger, but another officer of the Armée...

And now, for your entertainment:

The future of GP11

Text by Heinz Frutiger, chief of shooting, ground forces SAT

How long will the GP11 stocks last? SAT's answer is reassuring. The stocks are sufficient for many years.

In the last years a recurrent question put by shooters is: “what's the future of GP11?” refetting to the forecast availability of the appreciated ammunition 11 in calibre 7,5, used for the muskeets and the Assault Rifle 57.

The statement of SAT referring to this recurrent question is the following.
The last batch of GP11 was made in 1994 in the [Federal] Ammunition Factory in Thun, now RUAG Ammotec. In the ammunition stocking facility at the Army Logistic Establishment are kept batches of production years between 1979 and 1994.

Every year 15 different lots are tested for functioning and precision. Furthermore detailed analysis are performed for those components subjected to aging, namely powder and primers. Only lots with full compliance to the strict quality requirements are deemed sutable and made available for “out of service” shooting.

High quality of the stocks in depot.
If we refer to the records of high quality of the available stocks and the average consumption of ammunition for training (it seems to me that these calculations may not take into account the world market – note by Andrea), it can be assumed that the GP11 will still be available for the next 10 years (from 2010, date of the paper – Andrea) for the “out of service shooting” and sporting purposes.

It is possible for RUAG Ammotec to restart GP11 production after 2020. However we cannot say today wether the ammunition will be provided by the army (to the Swiss shooters – Andrea) or if they will have to privately purchase them.

Bigdog57 · January 22, 2011, 04:07 PM

If GP11 and 7.5 Swiss brass are hard to find, our home-grown .284Win brass makes quite good 7.5 Swiss handloads! A lot of us K31 shooters use this method to keep our old rifles shooting.

flagler_beach · January 22, 2011, 08:37 PM

Just received a copy of Sportsmans Guide today. K31 7.5 x 55 ammo.
60 rounds > $34.97
120 rounds > $64.97
480 rounds > $249.97
www.sportsmansguide.com

Ignition Override · January 25, 2011, 03:26 AM

Do you folks mind a change in topic? It's a dumb question about the open sights on K-31, and am too embarrassed to start a 'thread' about it.

Both a friend and my brother have them. The friend who is very experienced with shooting, and buying dozens of excellent milsurps (never sells) told me that his first shot at about 80 yards with his K, was much more accurate than he expected.

How would you rate being able to easily use the sights with no instruction, compared to a generic Yugo 48A Mauser, in contrast to nice aperture sights, i.e. Garand, maybe an Enfield #4?

I have little luck using my Yugo's open sights, having started late in life learning about guns, and with no instruction on open sights, so far seldom use it.
There must be some good reasons-other than the solid, quality design, unique bolt and power-which really attract people to them.
Already have four nice Enfields (#4s, #5s), and the "infection" can't be cured with Erythramycine, Tetracycline or other antibiotics.

kadima · January 25, 2011, 08:48 AM

I don't want to teach swimming to fishes, but here is an interesting post on the K31 forum about the use of open sights: http://theswissriflesdotcommessagebo...ain-won-t-hurt

K.

January 4, 2011, 01:10 AM	#1
the_collector Member Join Date: August 28, 2010 Posts: 25	k31 ammunition? we need to find a place to buy from. PRICE HIKE I normally have bought my ammo from midwayusa.com but Jan 1st they upped a lot of their prices. They DOUBLED the cost of 7.5x55 swiss surplus ammo! It is now 12.99 for 10 515..99 for 480 69.99 for 60 I cant believe it! In December I bought 120 rds for 72$ Is there anywhere else I can buy the surplus ammo from?

January 4, 2011, 06:21 PM	#7
zfk55 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2009 Location: Lost Prairie Montana Posts: 391	TC, when you're ready email me at [email protected] and I'll help you. My father is the one who's archives on k31 and Swiss Rifles reloading data and method is on a dedicated Swiss Forum. I'll steer you right to the place you'll need to be for reloading a k31. Save your pennies. Latigo __________________ www.swissproductsllc.com An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit, he set in de bushes, he watch an' he wait, lay low an' he don' say nuffin'

January 5, 2011, 01:14 AM	#9
Volucris Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Posts: 293	MidwayUSA is expensive on everything and has high shipping. Their only merit is that they have lots of stuff. I buy my reloading gear from Grafs since they're less than 200 miles from me. Shop around. Look: http://wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=18\|830\|855 and http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/575.php If you want cheaper 7.5 Swiss you need to start reloading. Get a basic single-stage press, an RCBS 505 scale (or RCBS Chargemaster setup or Redding 1010), buy some good dies, and get your brass online for about $.40 apiece. Then just get .308" bullets and go to town. __________________ "From my cold, dead hands!" - Charlton Heston

January 5, 2011, 09:56 AM	#12
zfk55 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2009 Location: Lost Prairie Montana Posts: 391	This one interests me. I sent two enquiries about this. I have an answer from the first one. He's in Europe and reuglarly buys and sells all things Swiss. This is his answer. ----------------------------------------------------------- "Hard to answer that one as there are no official statements about the ammo numbers left and SM Thun is owned by RUAG and no longer a state factory. Gun laws in Switzerland are changing all the time and do belong to the most strict European laws now, when there are fewer guns around there is also less ammo needed. RUAG already made commercial 7.5 X 55 with boxer primers and they can start that up any time, just the bullets shall be the Sierra ones.' --------------------------------------------------------------- The second is to our distributor in Switzerland. He works regularly with the Swiss Shooting Society and RUAG in Bern. I should have an inside answer by tomorrow. Also, Kadima, what is your source for this information about how much GP11 is in storage, and since there is no longer a "Swiss Federal Ammunition Factory", what is your source for saying that RUAG would begin making GP11 again? Latigo __________________ www.swissproductsllc.com An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit, he set in de bushes, he watch an' he wait, lay low an' he don' say nuffin'

January 5, 2011, 10:36 AM	#13
zfk55 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2009 Location: Lost Prairie Montana Posts: 391	And the answer came a lot sooner than I thought! This one you can take to the bank. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The last year of GP11 production was 1994 or 95. The MG51 is still in use on some tanks and other vehicles, this may change in near future if the planned Army reduction to 80'000 go's ahead. The GP11with late 70's and mid 80's head-stamp is actually junk intended to be melted down. The Army usually destroys all small arms ammo after 20 years of storage. So the last batch of GP11 will surpass its regular shelf life in about 4 years. We can still order GP11 by the pallet from RUAG, for the official government price of CHF 0,34 - that's about 37 US cents per round. The machinery to produce GP11 has been scrap & the Army has no demand = no more GP11 !!!! RUAG is manufacturing commercial 7,5x55 hunting, sporting and law enforcement ammo with components like Sierra bullets, at a price tag of USD 50 - 90 for the box of 20. Investing in one or two full sized shipping containers - filled with GP11 may pay a good dividend in a few years time. __________________ www.swissproductsllc.com An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit, he set in de bushes, he watch an' he wait, lay low an' he don' say nuffin'

January 4, 2011, 04:42 AM	#2
kadima Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2010 Posts: 190	You may consider reloading, anyway there is a wonderful (mainly)US based Schmidt-Rubin forum where you mind find more info: theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/forums HTH K.

January 4, 2011, 07:19 AM	#3
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	http://classicarms.us/ammunition.htm Scroll down towards the bottom of the page for surplus Swiss surplus.

January 4, 2011, 10:19 AM	#4
zfk55 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2009 Location: Lost Prairie Montana Posts: 391	You really should consider reloading with a bare bones setup. A simple one stage press with a primer seater, a trimmer, a set of 7.5x55 dies, a one pound can of powder, a box of primers and a scale. Not much involved to do one caliber cartridge. There's a wealth of load data available from regular k31 shooters. Sooner of later the GP11 is going to dry up. There hasn't been any manufactured for a very long time now and everything you're seeing here in the US is from Swiss Armoury storage. It will go away before you know it. Good brass and 175gr projectiles will duplicate the GP11 if you have the right load data info. I forgot to mention that sanctioned Swiss Shooting Clubs will be (and are now) getting the bulk of available GP11 before any other sales, and when it gets down to the bottom, they're the ones who will get it. The last rifle to require GP11 is now more or less retired from service. Latigo __________________ www.swissproductsllc.com An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit, he set in de bushes, he watch an' he wait, lay low an' he don' say nuffin' Last edited by zfk55; January 4, 2011 at 10:26 AM.

January 4, 2011, 03:12 PM	#5
Flintlock Tom Junior Member Join Date: September 20, 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14	J&G Sales, in Arizona, still has it for $36.90 per 60 and it gets cheaper the more you buy. J&G Sales 7.5 Swiss And for slightly more they have re-loadable Wolf Gold.

January 4, 2011, 03:40 PM	#6
the_collector Member Join Date: August 28, 2010 Posts: 25	I dont have the time/room for any equipment right now but reloading is something i plan for in the future. Its more convenient to buy surplus right now. But i really appreciate the info, it is something i will be looking into

January 4, 2011, 11:26 PM	#8
DoctorXring Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2002 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 392	. The last GP11 was loaded in 1995. The swiss have mountains of it. It won't go dry anytime soon.... QUOTE -- Sooner of later the GP11 is going to dry up. There hasn't been any manufactured for a very long time now and everything you're seeing here in the US is from Swiss Armoury storage. It will go away before you know it. But without a doubt reloading is the best option as this rifle performs beautifully with any 30 caliber bullet that I've shot in it. .

January 5, 2011, 05:06 AM	#10
kadima Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2010 Posts: 190	I am typing from close to the Swiss border, in Northern Italy. Seldom (unfortunately) I shoot there and I have been told that the last batch of GP11 was made in the nineties, however, since there the GP11 are no more used by the Armée, they still have some millions round in storage. Since the K31 and The Stgw57 are still widely used for sporting purposes, if the supply dries up there are plans at the Swiss federal ammunition factory to restart manufacture. Unfortunately I presume that the new production ammunitions will not be as cheap as the current surplus ones... K.

January 6, 2011, 09:46 AM	#14
zfk55 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2009 Location: Lost Prairie Montana Posts: 391	Quote: The last GP11 was loaded in 1995. The swiss have mountains of it. It won't go dry anytime soon.... So I have to wonder how big those mountains really are. Foothills maybe? I have a new enquiry as to a rough available inventory estimate. That one may take a while, but I'll post it here when I get an answer. Latigo __________________ www.swissproductsllc.com An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit, he set in de bushes, he watch an' he wait, lay low an' he don' say nuffin'

January 7, 2011, 03:44 AM	#15
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,884	DoctorXring/kadima: My question is whether the Swiss government is allowed (by the UN Small Arms Treaty etc) to export more military or commercial ammo to the US. The Greeks supposedly have lots of British caliber .303 ammo ("HXP"), but exports are said to be prohibited, at least to the US. There is a British/Euro arms "control" organization which pays countries such as South Africa and many others (some former Soviet lands) to destroy both surplus ammo and rifles. Stopping AKs from going to war lords is their main objective, but South African shops have reportedly been ordered to destroy lots of Lee-Enfield bolt-action rifles and Brens. This was witnessed months ago by the S.A. friend of an Aussie guy on "Gunboards", or "Surplusrifle". Last edited by Ignition Override; January 7, 2011 at 03:50 AM.

January 7, 2011, 07:56 AM	#16
zfk55 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2009 Location: Lost Prairie Montana Posts: 391	I'm not either of those two gentlemen, but my Distributor is Swiss and he works very closely with all things Swiss Military and surplus. Its his business. The answer is yes. GP11 may be and still is imported into the US, or at least until protests and submissions from the left leaning Cantons in Switzerland win over. The manufacturer of current 7.5 commercial ammo is RUAG, and they sell world wide. zfk55 __________________ www.swissproductsllc.com An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit, he set in de bushes, he watch an' he wait, lay low an' he don' say nuffin'

January 11, 2011, 09:15 AM	#17
kadima Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2010 Posts: 190	Ciao Latigo, I am the same andrea of the swissriflesdotcom forum. The source about the GP11 current storage and availability comes from a paper by Heinz Frutiger, chief of the "Civilian Markmanship Program" of the Swiss Army, in the website of the Swiss Shooting association here: http://www.ftst.ch/media/1886301904.pdf I am sorry it's in Italian, but after all the official languages of Switzerland are Italian, German, French and Romancio, English isn't among them... However what I said in my earlier post is a more or less effective translation of the linked document (apart from the exact number of ammo available that comes from a firing range cafeteria guesstimation and may have been influenced by a few bottles of Chianti that I brought from Tuscany....) K. aka Andrea Andrea

January 11, 2011, 09:39 AM	#18
zfk55 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2009 Location: Lost Prairie Montana Posts: 391	Hey! Andrea! Good to see you. I've been trying to find a way to highlight the copy for translation for the TFL board, but its in a jpg format and it's not working. Is there a way for you to open it here so I can highlight the copy and translate it? Or send it to me at [email protected] ? I forgot to mention that our distributor is our source. He owns AFA in Switzerland, and he's also the one who got our Diopter approved by the SSV for world-wide sanctioned Swiss shoots. It took him 7 years and a bunch of prototypes to get that approval for us from the Swiss. Is the Chianti all gone now? Latigo __________________ www.swissproductsllc.com An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit, he set in de bushes, he watch an' he wait, lay low an' he don' say nuffin' Last edited by zfk55; January 11, 2011 at 10:20 AM.

January 12, 2011, 04:40 AM	#19
kadima Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2010 Posts: 190	Here is a hurried up translation. I beg for pardon for any mistake in English since now, given that my mother tongue is Italian and as an "excusatio non petita" I must add that the Italian paper obtained through the Swiss Shooters Association of Canton Ticino is in itself a translation from the original paper that was written in German. Latigo, there is always a batch of Chianti lying somewhere in my house... BTW, the Swiss friend who made a guesstimation of the availale stocks isn't Herr Frutiger, but another officer of the Armée... And now, for your entertainment: The future of GP11 Text by Heinz Frutiger, chief of shooting, ground forces SAT How long will the GP11 stocks last? SAT's answer is reassuring. The stocks are sufficient for many years. In the last years a recurrent question put by shooters is: “what's the future of GP11?” refetting to the forecast availability of the appreciated ammunition 11 in calibre 7,5, used for the muskeets and the Assault Rifle 57. The statement of SAT referring to this recurrent question is the following. The last batch of GP11 was made in 1994 in the [Federal] Ammunition Factory in Thun, now RUAG Ammotec. In the ammunition stocking facility at the Army Logistic Establishment are kept batches of production years between 1979 and 1994. Every year 15 different lots are tested for functioning and precision. Furthermore detailed analysis are performed for those components subjected to aging, namely powder and primers. Only lots with full compliance to the strict quality requirements are deemed sutable and made available for “out of service” shooting. High quality of the stocks in depot. If we refer to the records of high quality of the available stocks and the average consumption of ammunition for training (it seems to me that these calculations may not take into account the world market – note by Andrea), it can be assumed that the GP11 will still be available for the next 10 years (from 2010, date of the paper – Andrea) for the “out of service shooting” and sporting purposes. It is possible for RUAG Ammotec to restart GP11 production after 2020. However we cannot say today wether the ammunition will be provided by the army (to the Swiss shooters – Andrea) or if they will have to privately purchase them.

January 22, 2011, 04:07 PM	#20
Bigdog57 Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2006 Posts: 122	If GP11 and 7.5 Swiss brass are hard to find, our home-grown .284Win brass makes quite good 7.5 Swiss handloads! A lot of us K31 shooters use this method to keep our old rifles shooting.

January 22, 2011, 08:37 PM	#21
flagler_beach Junior Member Join Date: March 22, 2008 Posts: 5	Just received a copy of Sportsmans Guide today. K31 7.5 x 55 ammo. 60 rounds > $34.97 120 rounds > $64.97 480 rounds > $249.97 www.sportsmansguide.com

January 25, 2011, 03:26 AM	#22
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,884	Do you folks mind a change in topic? It's a dumb question about the open sights on K-31, and am too embarrassed to start a 'thread' about it. Both a friend and my brother have them. The friend who is very experienced with shooting, and buying dozens of excellent milsurps (never sells) told me that his first shot at about 80 yards with his K, was much more accurate than he expected. How would you rate being able to easily use the sights with no instruction, compared to a generic Yugo 48A Mauser, in contrast to nice aperture sights, i.e. Garand, maybe an Enfield #4? I have little luck using my Yugo's open sights, having started late in life learning about guns, and with no instruction on open sights, so far seldom use it. There must be some good reasons-other than the solid, quality design, unique bolt and power-which really attract people to them. Already have four nice Enfields (#4s, #5s), and the "infection" can't be cured with Erythramycine, Tetracycline or other antibiotics. Last edited by Ignition Override; January 25, 2011 at 03:37 AM.

January 25, 2011, 08:48 AM	#23
kadima Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2010 Posts: 190	I don't want to teach swimming to fishes, but here is an interesting post on the K31 forum about the use of open sights: http://theswissriflesdotcommessagebo...ain-won-t-hurt K.