Bore Sighters

WSM MAGNUM · September 12, 2008, 02:36 PM

This is a question for those that have used bore sighters. Laser or standard.
When you use your bore sighter and if it has a cross hair leveler, does it also level the gun at the same time? My guess is they do not level the firearm, just the scope cross hairs to the target.
So I think another level would be required to level the gun and then use the bore sighter to level the scope. If the bore sighter has a leveler. Is this correct?

Does any one know where to buy levels for a firearm? I looked in Brownells catalog, but I do not see any levels that would work on a firearm. They do have one that attaches to the scope base, but I do not think it will work with a scope attached to the bases.
Any one have other sources to buy levels for guns?

CowTowner · September 12, 2008, 06:25 PM

I think this does what you are asking for:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=529349

WSM MAGNUM · September 12, 2008, 07:19 PM

I think that may work CowTowner. I wish the picture was better to show how that level is in the bolt receiver. And I wonder if that will work with all bolt action guns?
Anyone here used the Level-level-level? How did it fit in your action?

kraigwy · September 12, 2008, 08:15 PM

Why is it that important. I dont jump through too many hoops boresighting a ricle. I try to get the crosshairs lined up with the grids, and I'm on paper at 100 yards. I'd never use a bore sighter without sighting in the rifle afterwords.

I'f you're talking about mounting the scope. Just use a string leveler (without the string) to get the rifle level, then use it one the scope until you get 'er tightened down.

WSM MAGNUM · September 13, 2008, 09:14 AM

Because looking through a scope that is canted is annoying. If you don`t level the gun, then the scope will not be level.
Also a scope that is not level with the gun can cause the bullet zero to be off at 100 yards or more.

The proper way to mount a scope is to level the gun and the scope, so the cross hairs are level with the gun. So, my point was, bore sighters alone do not level the gun. I need a level that will work on all types of guns.

Pahoo · September 13, 2008, 10:35 AM

That Midway level looks interesting and should work but have not ordered one as yet. As far as cant, I usually just trust my eye. I put a level on the base or good top flat and then eye ball it. After I have set my relief and scope is just snug, I pick it up and again, Eye ball it. I own three bore sighters and sadly none want to agree with each other. On short barrels, I use my lazer bore sighter. Windage is always good but elevation is seldom right on. :barf:

Now, If I have a front sight on a rifle, I line up a C/L mark on my bore sighter and line it up to the center of the front sight and do the adjustments. I still go back and do the eye ball. I find that I can get close enough to trust it. By the way, the confermation is how the bullet tracks on the paper. I usually track very well or it's back to my shop gun vise/stand.

Be Safe !!!

WSM MAGNUM · September 13, 2008, 03:41 PM

I`ve been eyeballing it too Pahoo. But after I get the scope snugged down and eyeball it again, the darn cross hairs still look canted at different times.
A level would be the fastest and easiest way to do it and will not fool my eyes. I think I will buy the one from Midway if I do not come across a better one. It has to a level that will work on all flat areas of the gun, and not all guns have flat areas on the receiver.

Pahoo · September 14, 2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

As with anything, if it "looks" right and feels right then it probably is. Trust your own judgment, the human eye and the ear are powerful tools for the shooter/gunsmith.

May not be all that scientific but have to agree. I Level and clamp my rifle in the verticle position, using a level on a top flat. Then I take my best eyeball set that I can. I put a light reference pencil mark on the scope and rear ring. I cant the scope left and then right and eyeball it again. I then look at my marks to see how far off I am. Most of the time, I'm right on. Once put my small level on the top scope cap and it showed level. However, when I eyeballed it, I could clearly see it was canted. So you can't trust this step.

Another point to consider is that in a hunting enviroment, most of us don't check to see if we are holding the rifle in the perfectly verticle position but the crosshairs tell us where we are or should be. I would say that most of the time we are not canted or very little. Now, bench shooting is a different situation.

Quote:

WSM MAGNUM: I`ve been eyeballing it too Pahoo. But after I get the scope snugged down and eyeball it again, the darn cross hairs still look canted at different times.

To me, that again is your eye telling you that you are not there and to readjust. I have had scope rings turn me out of true when i tightened them down. When Tightening down my rings, I alternate each screw; one at a time and a little at a time.

Just like anything else, We all do our best, in our own best ways. ..

Be Safe !!!

wncchester · September 14, 2008, 11:59 AM

"So I think another level would be required to level the gun and then use the bore sighter to level the scope. If the bore sighter has a leveler. Is this correct?"

I believe you have an erroneous view of what a boresighter really is and what one does, most people seem to expect far more than the tool can do. I know of no boresighter that includes any means of leveling a scope. They are only meant to allow the user to get on paper, usually at 100 yards, pretty quickly. After zeroing, the optical types have a projected grid pattern which can then be used as a quick field reference to check for gross changes.

To "level" a scope, put it on a rifle with the rings loosely held and positioned for correct eye relief. Holding the rifle in a sight-vise of some type, place the rig on a bench and level the rifle in the vise. Find some absolutely vertical or horizontal line down range. Twist the scope body until the cross wires match the "target" and tighten the rings.

Pahoo · September 14, 2008, 02:48 PM

wncchester: "So I think another level would be required to level the gun and then use the bore sighter to level the scope. If the bore sighter has a leveler. Is this correct?"

Have never seen a level on a bore sighter or at least mine don't have them. The level in question is one from Midway that clamps onto a weaver base. I use two separate levels that I made up myself. On the bore sighter, I just use a scriped line to indicate a C/L. Then I look thru the scope and line up the crosshairs. I then back off and eyeball it to see where I'm at. I know that all boresighters have limitations and I can work with that. I also know that everyone has their own technique and I can work with that as well.

Be Safe !!!

WSM MAGNUM · September 15, 2008, 08:03 AM

Some of you are behind the times my friends. There are some laser bore sighters that can level the cross hairs. I did not say that it will level the gun.

You guys are misunderstanding what I`m asking. A level that I`m looking for will make sighting in a lot easier and it will make the scope perfectly level with the firearm, which is what the a boresighter will not do. If some of you are happy with eyeballing, fine.

LongRifles, yes I know how to sight a gun in without a bore sighter. But, there is a faster way without wasting a box of ammo. Just like one said, the bore sighter will get you on paper or very close to zero.

Thanks, a couple of you gave me the answer I was looking for.

September 12, 2008, 02:36 PM	#1
WSM MAGNUM Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 750	Bore Sighters This is a question for those that have used bore sighters. Laser or standard. When you use your bore sighter and if it has a cross hair leveler, does it also level the gun at the same time? My guess is they do not level the firearm, just the scope cross hairs to the target. So I think another level would be required to level the gun and then use the bore sighter to level the scope. If the bore sighter has a leveler. Is this correct? Does any one know where to buy levels for a firearm? I looked in Brownells catalog, but I do not see any levels that would work on a firearm. They do have one that attaches to the scope base, but I do not think it will work with a scope attached to the bases. Any one have other sources to buy levels for guns? __________________ Henry - Life NRA Member, USCCA Shield Member If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?

September 12, 2008, 06:25 PM	#2
CowTowner Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2007 Location: Cowtown of course! Posts: 1,747	The Level Level Level I think this does what you are asking for: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=529349 __________________ NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, Home Firearms Safety, Pistol and Rifle Instructor *“Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life......”* President John F. Kennedy

September 12, 2008, 07:19 PM	#3
WSM MAGNUM Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 750	I think that may work CowTowner. I wish the picture was better to show how that level is in the bolt receiver. And I wonder if that will work with all bolt action guns? Anyone here used the Level-level-level? How did it fit in your action? __________________ Henry - Life NRA Member, USCCA Shield Member If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?

September 12, 2008, 08:15 PM	#4
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Why is it that important. I dont jump through too many hoops boresighting a ricle. I try to get the crosshairs lined up with the grids, and I'm on paper at 100 yards. I'd never use a bore sighter without sighting in the rifle afterwords. I'f you're talking about mounting the scope. Just use a string leveler (without the string) to get the rifle level, then use it one the scope until you get 'er tightened down. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

September 13, 2008, 09:14 AM	#5
WSM MAGNUM Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 750	Because looking through a scope that is canted is annoying. If you don`t level the gun, then the scope will not be level. Also a scope that is not level with the gun can cause the bullet zero to be off at 100 yards or more. The proper way to mount a scope is to level the gun and the scope, so the cross hairs are level with the gun. So, my point was, bore sighters alone do not level the gun. I need a level that will work on all types of guns. __________________ Henry - Life NRA Member, USCCA Shield Member If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?

September 13, 2008, 10:35 AM	#6
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	That Midway level looks interesting and should work but have not ordered one as yet. As far as cant, I usually just trust my eye. I put a level on the base or good top flat and then eye ball it. After I have set my relief and scope is just snug, I pick it up and again, Eye ball it. I own three bore sighters and sadly none want to agree with each other. On short barrels, I use my lazer bore sighter. Windage is always good but elevation is seldom right on. :barf: Now, If I have a front sight on a rifle, I line up a C/L mark on my bore sighter and line it up to the center of the front sight and do the adjustments. I still go back and do the eye ball. I find that I can get close enough to trust it. By the way, the confermation is how the bullet tracks on the paper. I usually track very well or it's back to my shop gun vise/stand. Be Safe !!!

September 13, 2008, 03:41 PM	#7
WSM MAGNUM Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 750	I`ve been eyeballing it too Pahoo. But after I get the scope snugged down and eyeball it again, the darn cross hairs still look canted at different times. A level would be the fastest and easiest way to do it and will not fool my eyes. I think I will buy the one from Midway if I do not come across a better one. It has to a level that will work on all flat areas of the gun, and not all guns have flat areas on the receiver. __________________ Henry - Life NRA Member, USCCA Shield Member If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?

September 14, 2008, 11:59 AM	#9
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"So I think another level would be required to level the gun and then use the bore sighter to level the scope. If the bore sighter has a leveler. Is this correct?" I believe you have an erroneous view of what a boresighter really is and what one does, most people seem to expect far more than the tool can do. I know of no boresighter that includes any means of leveling a scope. They are only meant to allow the user to get on paper, usually at 100 yards, pretty quickly. After zeroing, the optical types have a projected grid pattern which can then be used as a quick field reference to check for gross changes. To "level" a scope, put it on a rifle with the rings loosely held and positioned for correct eye relief. Holding the rifle in a sight-vise of some type, place the rig on a bench and level the rifle in the vise. Find some absolutely vertical or horizontal line down range. Twist the scope body until the cross wires match the "target" and tighten the rings.

September 14, 2008, 02:48 PM	#10
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	wncchester: "So I think another level would be required to level the gun and then use the bore sighter to level the scope. If the bore sighter has a leveler. Is this correct?" Have never seen a level on a bore sighter or at least mine don't have them. The level in question is one from Midway that clamps onto a weaver base. I use two separate levels that I made up myself. On the bore sighter, I just use a scriped line to indicate a C/L. Then I look thru the scope and line up the crosshairs. I then back off and eyeball it to see where I'm at. I know that all boresighters have limitations and I can work with that. I also know that everyone has their own technique and I can work with that as well. Be Safe !!!

September 15, 2008, 08:03 AM	#11
WSM MAGNUM Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 750	Some of you are behind the times my friends. There are some laser bore sighters that can level the cross hairs. I did not say that it will level the gun. You guys are misunderstanding what I`m asking. A level that I`m looking for will make sighting in a lot easier and it will make the scope perfectly level with the firearm, which is what the a boresighter will not do. If some of you are happy with eyeballing, fine. LongRifles, yes I know how to sight a gun in without a bore sighter. But, there is a faster way without wasting a box of ammo. Just like one said, the bore sighter will get you on paper or very close to zero. Thanks, a couple of you gave me the answer I was looking for. __________________ Henry - Life NRA Member, USCCA Shield Member If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?