Mag pickiness common with AR's?

raftman · September 29, 2012, 09:13 PM

Am I the only one that seems to have a 50/50 track with finding mags that work? My current AR (SA&A AR in 5.56) came with 2 mags, both of the steel mil-surp variety, one locks and works beautifully, the other locks but invariably becomes unseated and falls out after firing just a round or two (it's not a matter of the mag being overloaded, it will even happen if the mag is loaded with even as few as 5 rounds, the mag does not appear to be damaged). I've since bought 2 more mags, a pmag and another steel mil-surp, the pmag will not lock (again, it's not overloaded, it won't lock in even when empty), but the mil-surp locks properly and works well.

Is this common and just part of the game? Or is something wrong with my rifle that needs to be fixed?

Palmetto-Pride · September 29, 2012, 09:21 PM

Something is Definitely wrong and needs to be fixed. Sounds like the magizine catch is messed up.

B. Lahey · September 29, 2012, 09:24 PM

That isn't normal.

DnPRK · September 29, 2012, 09:42 PM

Mil surplus mags aren't steel,they're aluminum.

Get a PMag. They have a good reputation for reliability.

bedlamite · September 29, 2012, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DnPRK

Get a PMag. They have a good reputation for reliability.

Try again. From the original post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by raftman

the pmag will not lock

Try the problem mags with the upper off and see if you have a problem with them locking in place.

raftman · September 29, 2012, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Try the problem mags with the upper off and see if you have a problem with them locking in place.

Have tried that and the results seem consistent with previous observations. The pmag will not lock in whatsoever, even empty and with the upper removed, simply doesn't engage. The "bad" mil-surp mag locks positively with the upper removed, but then it also seems to lock when loaded and with the upper attached, just drops out upon firing.

Inspecting the mag release doesn't reveal anything that appears to be amiss.

10-96 · September 30, 2012, 01:15 AM

Try this:
Push in on the mag catch button as far as it will go (may need to use a plastic or nylon punch). Now on the left side of the rifle, see if you can rotate the flat portion of the mag catch 360 degrees clockwise.

It sounds like your mag catch wasn't installed properly (screwed on far enough) to engage the catchy portion of most of your clips.

madcratebuilder · September 30, 2012, 06:25 AM

Sounds like the mag release was not screwed in far enough. The threaded end should be flush with the release button face. You may need to remove the bolt release and turn the mag release one or two turns in.

The tab on the mag catch should protrude from the mag well about 1/8"+. You should have a minimum of 4-5lbs spring tension holding it closed.

Eghad · September 30, 2012, 12:49 PM

2nd that the mag release button may not screwed in far enough.

Nathan · September 30, 2012, 01:57 PM

No, but the only steel mags I'm aware of are those junk USA mags.

Any USGI alum or Pmag, etc should work fine.

Your mag not staying in could be bad assembly, bad mag catch or something damaged on the lower.

tahunua001 · September 30, 2012, 04:09 PM

my 5.56 AR15 doesn't care what you put in it, I have a 30 year old polymer mag that was left loaded for the last 15 years and my gun didn't even hiccup when I fired that junk out of it, USGI, PMAGS, and one low cap mag I bought for hunting all work just fine in mine and it's widely regarded to be one of the lowest quality ARs out there.

my 9mm on the other hand is very picky, it has to have metal form mags to work, Cmags are garbage in it.

Tucker 1371 · September 30, 2012, 07:07 PM

I'm a big fan of PMAGs but I've recently started trying Troy battle mags, they do equally as well IMO, not sure if they will stand up to the same kind of stress as a PMAG though. TBMs are cheaper too.

I've had the same experiences as you with mags and M16s, aluminum issue mags are notorious for bent feed lips and catches, I was issued one that would lock in enough to hold for one round and would fall out after the first shot. Go with a quality polymer mag (Troy, Magpul, a couple others, NOT ProMag) and if that doesn't fix it it's the rifle.

Good luck

raftman · October 1, 2012, 12:59 AM

Quote:

You may need to remove the bolt release and turn the mag release one or two turns in.

Did exactly that and then brought the AR along with a few other toys for a Sunday morning range session. The results are that the previously bad metal mag now locks positively and works with perfect reliability (doesn't fall out anymore). The mags that used to work fine continued to work fine.

The pmag however is no better whatsoever and still will not lock, it almost seems like that shoulder on the front of the mag where it transitions from straight to slightly curved is keeping it from getting far enough into the mag well to lock, the metal mags don't have such protrusion.

10-96 · October 1, 2012, 02:29 AM

Glad it worked out for ya. It just didn't sound like a serious problem.

Metal god · October 1, 2012, 03:14 AM

EDIT , sorry never mind

madcratebuilder · October 1, 2012, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Quote:
You may need to remove the bolt release and turn the mag release one or two turns in.

Did exactly that and then brought the AR along with a few other toys for a Sunday morning range session. The results are that the previously bad metal mag now locks positively and works with perfect reliability (doesn't fall out anymore). The mags that used to work fine continued to work fine.

The pmag however is no better whatsoever and still will not lock, it almost seems like that shoulder on the front of the mag where it transitions from straight to slightly curved is keeping it from getting far enough into the mag well to lock, the metal mags don't have such protrusion

Pmags are known to have issues with certain lowers. Tight fit in the mag well and not dropping free is the most common.

With some you have the hit them pretty good for the mag the seat, or latch into position.

Do a google search on Pmag revisions. You may have a early release mag. At one time Magpul was replacing them free. The mag well have a version letter code cast in the body.

Metal god · October 1, 2012, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Pmags are known to have issues with certain lowers. Tight fit in the mag well and not dropping free is the most common.

+ 1 on that . I have a PSA lower that has problems with some pmags ( tight fit ) Cus there plasic , I was able to shave the areas down a bit that were rubbing , They work fine now

Mobuck · October 2, 2012, 05:19 AM

I accept reject Pmags and give them a warm loving home for the rest of their lives.

raftman · October 4, 2012, 05:25 PM

Quote:

I accept reject Pmags and give them a warm loving home for the rest of their lives.

I'll trade ya for a GI mag!

B. Lahey · October 5, 2012, 09:52 PM

What does SA&A stand for? Never heard of this brand of AR...

raftman · October 6, 2012, 01:33 AM

Quote:

What does SA&A stand for? Never heard of this brand of AR...

Surplus Ammo and Arms (they're located in Lakewood, WA), their lowers are made by Aero Precision, however.

I'd have preferred to buy local, but I live in Oregon and the only Oregon-based outfit is Noveske; and those tend to be outside of my price range.

B. Lahey · October 6, 2012, 07:19 AM

Scattered reports of tight magwells and other out of spec issues:

http://www.ak47.net/forums/t_3_12/57...on_Lowers.html
(there's others, google around a bit)

The chatter seems mostly positive, and I hate to be a magpul zealot, but if a lower won't take a newer Pmag, it is probably significantly out of spec.

Technosavant · October 6, 2012, 02:54 PM

Quote:

The chatter seems mostly positive, and I hate to be a magpul zealot, but if a lower won't take a newer Pmag, it is probably significantly out of spec.

I disagree completely.

Magpul is very clear that their Pmag is sized to the Colt spec magwell. There are in spec AR magwells that are tighter... some more than others. I have some lowers that will drop free all mags, some that won't drop free older Pmags, and a couple that won't drop free even the Rev M Pmag. They are definitely in spec (Spike's Tactical branded), but Magpul's Pmag is on the top end of the STANAG magazine specification. They even had to develop the Emag in order to have products that will work in some of the newer European rifles.

If the Pmags will drop free out of a given rifle, great. If they won't, there's still plenty of other quality choices out there. The Pmag is a good product but it is hardly the end all be all of all magazine choices, nor is it the standard by which even lowers ought to be judged.

B. Lahey · October 6, 2012, 03:39 PM

If you think your Spikes lower is "in spec" even though it varies from Colt dimensions and is picky about some of the most common, well-respected mags out there... I don't know what to tell you.

As far as I'm concerned, Colt specs are the only specs; particularly for dimensions like the magwell where variation causes problems without any benefit.

BerdanSS · October 6, 2012, 04:58 PM

They aren't really "Colt's" specs....Colt bought them and claims they are theirs.

I don't use PMAGS. I had some 20 rounders and sold them to buy pre-ban GI 20s. (adventure lines) I pretty much use 30 round GI mags exclusively (most of mine are Centers and Okays) upgraded with the grey magpul followers. Most reliable magazines I've ever had, not one malfunction in years.

HK and some enfield magazines are steel.

September 29, 2012, 09:13 PM	#1
raftman Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,890	Mag pickiness common with AR's? Am I the only one that seems to have a 50/50 track with finding mags that work? My current AR (SA&A AR in 5.56) came with 2 mags, both of the steel mil-surp variety, one locks and works beautifully, the other locks but invariably becomes unseated and falls out after firing just a round or two (it's not a matter of the mag being overloaded, it will even happen if the mag is loaded with even as few as 5 rounds, the mag does not appear to be damaged). I've since bought 2 more mags, a pmag and another steel mil-surp, the pmag will not lock (again, it's not overloaded, it won't lock in even when empty), but the mil-surp locks properly and works well. Is this common and just part of the game? Or is something wrong with my rifle that needs to be fixed? __________________ "My momma, she done told me, there's heart and then there's hate If one of 'em's inside of you, the other one, it aint."

September 29, 2012, 09:21 PM	#2
Palmetto-Pride Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2009 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 2,071	Something is Definitely wrong and needs to be fixed. Sounds like the magizine catch is messed up. __________________ “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” -Margaret Thatcher-

September 29, 2012, 09:24 PM	#3
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,857	That isn't normal. __________________ "A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards." -George Orwell

September 30, 2012, 01:15 AM	#7
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,159	Try this: Push in on the mag catch button as far as it will go (may need to use a plastic or nylon punch). Now on the left side of the rifle, see if you can rotate the flat portion of the mag catch 360 degrees clockwise. It sounds like your mag catch wasn't installed properly (screwed on far enough) to engage the catchy portion of most of your clips. __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

September 30, 2012, 12:49 PM	#9
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 6,231	2nd that the mag release button may not screwed in far enough. __________________ Have a nice day at the range NRA Life Member

September 29, 2012, 09:42 PM	#4
DnPRK Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2001 Location: LC, Ca Posts: 1,917	Mil surplus mags aren't steel,they're aluminum. Get a PMag. They have a good reputation for reliability.

September 30, 2012, 06:25 AM	#8
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	Sounds like the mag release was not screwed in far enough. The threaded end should be flush with the release button face. You may need to remove the bolt release and turn the mag release one or two turns in. The tab on the mag catch should protrude from the mag well about 1/8"+. You should have a minimum of 4-5lbs spring tension holding it closed.

September 30, 2012, 01:57 PM	#10
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,322	No, but the only steel mags I'm aware of are those junk USA mags. Any USGI alum or Pmag, etc should work fine. Your mag not staying in could be bad assembly, bad mag catch or something damaged on the lower.

September 30, 2012, 04:09 PM	#11
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	my 5.56 AR15 doesn't care what you put in it, I have a 30 year old polymer mag that was left loaded for the last 15 years and my gun didn't even hiccup when I fired that junk out of it, USGI, PMAGS, and one low cap mag I bought for hunting all work just fine in mine and it's widely regarded to be one of the lowest quality ARs out there. my 9mm on the other hand is very picky, it has to have metal form mags to work, Cmags are garbage in it. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

September 30, 2012, 07:07 PM	#12
Tucker 1371 Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: East TN Posts: 2,649	I'm a big fan of PMAGs but I've recently started trying Troy battle mags, they do equally as well IMO, not sure if they will stand up to the same kind of stress as a PMAG though. TBMs are cheaper too. I've had the same experiences as you with mags and M16s, aluminum issue mags are notorious for bent feed lips and catches, I was issued one that would lock in enough to hold for one round and would fall out after the first shot. Go with a quality polymer mag (Troy, Magpul, a couple others, NOT ProMag) and if that doesn't fix it it's the rifle. Good luck __________________ Sgt. of Marines, 5th Award Expert Rifle, 237/250 Expert Pistol, 382/400. D Co, 4th CEB, Engineers UP!! If you start a thread, be active in it. Don't leave us hanging. OEF 2011 Sangin, Afg. Molon Labe

October 1, 2012, 02:29 AM	#14
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,159	Glad it worked out for ya. It just didn't sound like a serious problem. __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

October 1, 2012, 03:14 AM	#15
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,874	EDIT , sorry never mind __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; October 1, 2012 at 03:34 AM.

October 2, 2012, 05:19 AM	#18
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	I accept reject Pmags and give them a warm loving home for the rest of their lives.

October 5, 2012, 09:52 PM	#20
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,857	What does SA&A stand for? Never heard of this brand of AR... __________________ "A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards." -George Orwell

October 6, 2012, 07:19 AM	#22
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,857	Scattered reports of tight magwells and other out of spec issues: http://www.ak47.net/forums/t_3_12/57...on_Lowers.html (there's others, google around a bit) The chatter seems mostly positive, and I hate to be a magpul zealot, but if a lower won't take a newer Pmag, it is probably significantly out of spec. __________________ "A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards." -George Orwell

October 6, 2012, 03:39 PM	#24
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,857	If you think your Spikes lower is "in spec" even though it varies from Colt dimensions and is picky about some of the most common, well-respected mags out there... I don't know what to tell you. As far as I'm concerned, Colt specs are the only specs; particularly for dimensions like the magwell where variation causes problems without any benefit. __________________ "A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards." -George Orwell Last edited by B. Lahey; October 6, 2012 at 07:27 PM. Reason: Redundant sentence was redundant.

October 6, 2012, 04:58 PM	#25
BerdanSS Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Location: to close to other houses Posts: 1,176	They aren't really "Colt's" specs....Colt bought them and claims they are theirs. I don't use PMAGS. I had some 20 rounders and sold them to buy pre-ban GI 20s. (adventure lines) I pretty much use 30 round GI mags exclusively (most of mine are Centers and Okays) upgraded with the grey magpul followers. Most reliable magazines I've ever had, not one malfunction in years. HK and some enfield magazines are steel. Last edited by BerdanSS; October 6, 2012 at 09:10 PM.

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