Question re: possible barrel damage

[focodude]

Yesterday I was at the range doing type 3 malfunction (double feed) drills with my G17. During the drill, there were a few times I put spent 9mm casings in the chamber instead of complete bullets. This was recommended to me by someone who worked at the range. I had 2 times where my gun got really jammed. I think in these cases the casings had bulges and didn't want to come out. I had to have the RO clear the jams. I don't remember exactly what he did, but he had to whack the back of the slide pretty hard to clear the jams. Afterwards he said not to put spent casings in the barrel. Otherwise, I could mess up my barrel and extractor.

When I got home I looked at the rear side of the barrel where the feed ramp is. I saw some scratching and bumps that I hadn't noticed before at the 11 o'clock position on the feedramp and on the face of the barrel at the 7 o'clock position. I'm not sure if this is a problem or if it is related to what happened at the range. My G17 has around 7,000 rounds through it.

I'm wondering if I may have damaged the barrel and, if so, should I do anything to correct it? Here's a picture of the barrel. Note I soaked the barrel in ballistol a few hours and then cleaned it before taking this picture.



Any advice is appreciated.

[tangolima]

I don't think you have damaged the barrel. The scratch on the feed ram may cause feeding problem. Try the pistol with hp rounds. If they feed reliably I will leave it alone, or I will polish the ram.

BTW, how did you put the spent brass in the chamber? Did you put them in the magazine and tried to feed them?

-TL

[focodude]

I locked the slide and dropped the casing into the chamber. I heard today that this is bad and can damage the extractor.

[tangolima]

It isn't that bad. Some people just make a big deal out of it. That is part of the extractor's functions, i.e. to snap over the cartridge's rim if necessary. Certainly you do it a lot of times something is going to wear out. But if you wear about that, why shoot the gun in the first place? Shooting it will wear it out.

-TL

[R.Ph. 380]

The extractor does not "snap over" the rim. It allows the rim to ride up behind the hook on the extractor as it moves the case from the magazine to the chamber. Any time you drop the slide on a round in the chamber, it puts excessive stress on the extractor and can snap the front hook off. I've personally seen one on a 9mm and one on a 1911 45 acp. Just not a good idea.

Bill

[JohnKSa]

The stuff on the feedramp looks like carbon fouling to me. I think it will scrape off with a brass rod or brush off with a brass brush. You'd have to be pretty unlucky to damage a barrel with empty casings.

Glocks are not designed for direct chamber loading (dropping a round in the chamber and then releasing the slide). The extractors will tolerate it for awhile but eventually the hook will break or chip.

That said, I've done some doublefeed clearance drills and they do involve what amounts to direct chamber loading in the process. Not during the setup, but pretty much regardless of which technique you use, at some point the slide is going to drop on a chambered casing. I don't spend a ton of time with those drills because of the extractor issue and because I've never had a doublefeed in a Glock. But I have done some of them and I haven't damaged an extractor hook yet. Then again, I keep spares on hand.

I've found that you're better off using a dummy for double feed drills than an empty case. The empty cases can sometimes stick in the chamber while it's rare for dummies to do that.

If you do get a casing stuck in the chamber, here is one way to clear the gun:

1. Keeping the muzzle pointed downrange, grasp the slide FIRMLY in an overhand grip with your non-shooting hand. Be sure NOT to cover the ejection port.
2. Using your shooting hand, abruptly strike the grip from the back. Your shooting hand will come forward like you're going to take a grip on the gun when you execute this strike.

If that doesn't work, you can try this approach. You'll need to remain safe, of course. Remove the magazine, and if there is a live round in the chamber, you need to exercise proper muzzle control during the entire procedure and insure you have a safe backstop.

Find a hard surface with an edge. A piece of wood, or a table top will work. Grasp the gun in a shooting position, finger off the trigger, and carefully place the gun against the edge so that the front of the slide BUT NOT THE BARREL bears against the edge. Make sure that the frame and recoil spring are going to clear the edge when you push against the grip. The best way to do this is to use an upper corner of the muzzle end of the slide as the engagement point.

Make sure that you are able to control the gun so that it doesn't slip off the edge or shift during the maneuver. If it slips off the edge, you run the risk of damaging your front sight. If it shifts, you could damage the frame or the recoil spring guide.

Lean your weight against the gun so that the frame moves forward.

[focodude]

Thank you JohnKSa! You were right. The bumps I was seeing are carbon deposits. I let the barrel soak longer in ballistol and then cleaned it some more with a nylon brush and a towel. Now the "bumps" are gone. Here's what it looks like now:



This gun has shot around 7000 rounds. I'm not sure if the scratches on the barrel are normal wear.

Thanks for the tips re: clearing type 3 malfunctions and a better way to drill for them them with snapcaps! I'm learning a lot here.

[g.willikers]

Yeah, a Glock (and others) can suffer extractor damage having to jump over a cartridge case rim.
I done did that once, being in a hurry to correct a malfunction in the middle of a match stage, when a round got loose on the way to the chamber.
I kept racking the slide until the extractor captured the rim again.
About half of the extractor face broke clean off.
Fortunately, that part of the extractor is large enough that the gun continued to run just fine for the rest of the match.
But they can be damaged that-a-way.

[James K]

Interesting about the "damage" that will be caused if an extractor rides over the rim of a chambered round. I think ALL military pistols are required to do that as otherwise the gun would be useless if the magazine were lost or damaged.

I know it was part of the requirements for the 1911, the Luger and the P.38; I am not sure about the Glock, but I am astonished that such a basic need was overlooked or the extractor not made to do it without breaking.

Jim

[JohnKSa]

It will do it without breaking, but it won't do it indefinitely without breaking. As I said, I've done doublefeed drills with a Glock which involved dropping the slide on a chambered round and have not had an extractor chip or break. The OP in this thread also mentioned that he did a number of doublefeed drills and he didn't damage his extractor.

I've also been in a class where everyone in the class did repeated doublefeed drills using Glocks and no one had an extractor problem.

So they will tolerate some direct-chamber loading--but they're not going to handle a steady pounding and therefore it's recommended that the user avoid it whenever possible.

I think ALL military pistols are required to do that as otherwise the gun would be useless if the magazine were lost or damaged.

From what I can determine it's actually more common to find that an autopistol is NOT designed for direct chamber loading than the reverse.

As far as a pistol being useless without direct chamber loading capability when the magazine is lost, I think that it would be pretty easy to make the case that it's still pretty close to useless on a modern battlefield even if it can be direct chamber loaded without damage to the extractor. Also, I seriously doubt any person in combat would let the fear of chipping the extractor hook keep them from direct chamber loading a pistol if that were the only way to fire a shot.

[45_auto]

I'm not sure if the scratches on the barrel are normal wear.

What scratches on the barrel?

Are you talking about the circular marks from the milling cutter on the breech face?

Those are a result of the machining process that finishes the breech face (rear of the barrel). They've been there since the gun was brand new. They're not from wear.

[lawdog2]

I would NOT fire a round in that barrel. It look as as if you have a crack in the face of the breach. I would like to advise you to have the barrel checked by a glock certified gunsmith.

[JohnKSa]

Your barrel is fine. The marks are machine marks that were not polished smooth.

[semi_problomatic]

Where's the crack!?! Where's the scratch? If you're scratching a nitrided barrel with brass there's a huge problem...

Thats just a tooling mark...In lawdog's pic

[4V50 Gary]

Johnska for the win. Dirty ramp was all it was.