Does an M14 really "turn cover into concealment"? Part 3: concrete pavers

Andrew Wiggin · July 25, 2015, 11:45 AM

So last time around there were some complaints that I didn't use the right kind of concrete and the test results would have been different with "real" concrete. What do you say M1A firing M80 FMJ versus 16" AR firing M855 FMJ against roughly two inch thick concrete pavers. How many do you think each cartridge will penetrate? Will one cartridge penetrate better than the other? Don't cheat. Vote before you watch the test.

Link to video of the test.

sixplus1 · July 25, 2015, 07:25 PM

These videos are really cool!

Andrew Wiggin · July 25, 2015, 08:28 PM

Thank you, sir.

kilimanjaro · July 25, 2015, 08:55 PM

Nice video.

For the record, those were paving blocks, little more than extruded mortar.

No one is going to hide under your garden path.

For concealment, I think a wall of stacking landscape blocks would be something a person might try and hide behind. While landscape blocks are essentially the same material as pavers, they are several inches deeper, heavier, with backfilled hollows, and generally firmly set, so ballistic coefficient is going to be much greater.

A concrete planter, filled with damp earth, would be a good test.

As far as 'real' concrete goes, yes, that means sand, gravel, rebar, and correct amounts of each, including measured water content, and curing to a tensile strength standard. That's a lot more than landscape pavers and cinder blocks.

Andrew Wiggin · July 25, 2015, 08:59 PM

All good points and I intend to continue testing, so long as I can keep the cost under free ninety nine. Those pavers came from my neighbor's yard. I've got some other concrete objects laying around to try as well.

**JohnKSa** · July 25, 2015, 09:03 PM

Quote:

No one is going to hide under your garden path.

I have a vision of Steve Martin under a hail of gunfire running away from a stack of paving blocks screaming: "Not behind those, those are little more than extruded mortar!" (For those of you who don't get the reference, watch a movie called "The Jerk".)

I'm guessing that most people would consider a stack of paving blocks or a cinder block wall to be pretty good cover and would hide behind one if under fire.

Quote:

A concrete planter, filled with damp earth, would be a good test.

A good test of what? Is that really the kind of cover one might reasonably expect to find in a violent encounter? I'd consider myself pretty lucky if I were able to find something more substantial than drywall to hide behind in a gunfight.

lamarw · July 25, 2015, 09:07 PM

Please try it at two hundred yards. Maybe that is covered in your earlier versions?

Andrew Wiggin · July 25, 2015, 09:11 PM

Not yet, but I probably will. It's kind of a pain to do this sort of thing at longer range because it means hauling all that stuff out and back and I can't really run the cameras out there, especially the high speed.

emcon5 · July 25, 2015, 10:05 PM

Get some of this, for $2.75 /each:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/SAKRETE-6...0940/100321247

You can make a form from wood, or even use a plastic trash can.

Andrew Wiggin · July 25, 2015, 10:09 PM

Are you insane? That's almost three dollars! Way over my budget.

Actually, I have a couple concrete blocks I made from that stuff for another project that I was planning on shooting in an upcoming test. Since we're on the subject, future tests will include those concrete blocks, a log, and a plastic drum full of water.

johnwilliamson062 · July 25, 2015, 11:42 PM

Quote:

A good test of what?

A good test for my viewing pleasure. None of this is scientific.

SR420 · July 26, 2015, 06:40 AM

Hickock45: M1A vs. Block wall @ 250

View Poll Results: Which cartridge "wins"? (penetrates more deeply)
7.62	14	73.68%
5.56	1	5.26%
Draw	1	5.26%
Just show me the poll results	3	15.79%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

July 25, 2015, 11:45 AM	#1
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	Does an M14 really "turn cover into concealment"? Part 3: concrete pavers So last time around there were some complaints that I didn't use the right kind of concrete and the test results would have been different with "real" concrete. What do you say M1A firing M80 FMJ versus 16" AR firing M855 FMJ against roughly two inch thick concrete pavers. How many do you think each cartridge will penetrate? Will one cartridge penetrate better than the other? Don't cheat. Vote *before* you watch the test. Link to video of the test. Last edited by Andrew Wiggin; July 25, 2015 at 11:55 AM.

July 26, 2015, 06:40 AM	#12
SR420 Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 3,336	Hickock45: M1A vs. Block wall @ 250 __________________ The History and Development of the M14 EBR

July 25, 2015, 07:25 PM	#2
sixplus1 Member Join Date: December 16, 2010 Posts: 35	These videos are really cool!

July 25, 2015, 08:28 PM	#3
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	Thank you, sir.

July 25, 2015, 08:55 PM	#4
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Nice video. For the record, those were paving blocks, little more than extruded mortar. No one is going to hide under your garden path. For concealment, I think a wall of stacking landscape blocks would be something a person might try and hide behind. While landscape blocks are essentially the same material as pavers, they are several inches deeper, heavier, with backfilled hollows, and generally firmly set, so ballistic coefficient is going to be much greater. A concrete planter, filled with damp earth, would be a good test. As far as 'real' concrete goes, yes, that means sand, gravel, rebar, and correct amounts of each, including measured water content, and curing to a tensile strength standard. That's a lot more than landscape pavers and cinder blocks.

July 25, 2015, 08:59 PM	#5
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	All good points and I intend to continue testing, so long as I can keep the cost under free ninety nine. Those pavers came from my neighbor's yard. I've got some other concrete objects laying around to try as well.

July 25, 2015, 09:07 PM	#7
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	Please try it at two hundred yards. Maybe that is covered in your earlier versions?

July 25, 2015, 09:11 PM	#8
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	Not yet, but I probably will. It's kind of a pain to do this sort of thing at longer range because it means hauling all that stuff out and back and I can't really run the cameras out there, especially the high speed.

July 25, 2015, 10:05 PM	#9
emcon5 Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 1999 Location: High Desert NV Posts: 2,850	Get some of this, for $2.75 /each: http://www.homedepot.com/p/SAKRETE-6...0940/100321247 You can make a form from wood, or even use a plastic trash can.

July 25, 2015, 10:09 PM	#10
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	Are you insane? That's almost three dollars! Way over my budget. Actually, I have a couple concrete blocks I made from that stuff for another project that I was planning on shooting in an upcoming test. Since we're on the subject, future tests will include those concrete blocks, a log, and a plastic drum full of water.