U.N. making homeschooling illegal?

[Scott Conklin]

Recently we hashed over whether the UN can actually influence gun issues here in the states. I offer the below as something to consider along those same lines. We aren't the only ones worried about such influence and it's not just about guns, but the methodology is/will be the same...


THE NEW WORLD DISORDER
U.N. making homeschooling illegal?
Threat seen from U.S. judges who bow to child-rights treaty
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: May 27, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com

A U.N. treaty conferring rights to children could make homeschooling illegal in the U.S. even though the Senate has not ratified it, a homeschooling association warns.

Michael Farris, chairman and general counsel of the Home School Legal Defense Association, or HSLDA, believes the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child could be binding on U.S.citizens because of activist judges, reports LifeSite News.

Farris said that according to a new interpretation of "customary international law," some U.S. judges have ruled the convention applies to American parents.

"In the 2002 case of Beharry v. Reno, one federal court said that even though the convention was never ratified, it still has an impact on American law," Farris explained, according to LifeSiteNews. "The fact that virtually every other nation in the world has adopted it has made it part of customary international law, and it means that it should be considered part of American jurisprudence."

The convention places severe limitations on a parent's right to direct and train their children, Farris contends.

The HSLDA produced a report in 1993 showing that under Article 13, parents could be subject to prosecution for any attempt to prevent their children from interacting with material they deem unacceptable.

Under Article 14, children are guaranteed "freedom of thought, conscience and religion," which suggests they have a legal right to object to all religious training. Further, under Article 15, the child has a right to "freedom of association."

"If this measure were to be taken seriously, parents could be prevented from forbidding their child to associate with people deemed to be objectionable companions," the HSLDA report explained.

More on this Story

[rhgunguy]

I always thought that the US Constitution superceded everything eles. Didn't these judges take and oath to that effect?

[steelheart]

I always thought that the US Constitution superceded everything eles. Didn't these judges take and oath to that effect?

The Constitution is supposed to supercede everything else - for a long time, judges, bureaucrats, Congressmen, Senators and Presidents have simply ignored the Constitution and conducted business as they please - it has gotten more and more flagrant over the last 30-40 years.

To these people, their oath of office is nothing more than a formality they have to perform to get into office so they can do as they please.

They face no consequences for trampling the Constitution and Bill of Rights - and that is the problem. Nobody holds them accountable - in effect, they are above the law.

[Scott Conklin]

Don't politicians take oaths? And how much do those oaths apparently mean to most of them? Far less than their political/social beliefs and agendas. Considering many(most?) of them are or were lawyers and sometimes also judges at one time or another why should we expect more from current judges(politicians themselves)?

[steelheart]

Don't politicians take oathes?

See post #7 (above).

[carbiner]

Home schooled kids might learn a thing or two about the failed U.N. and how much they will have to fork over when they grow up and get jobs.

Kofi doesn't want the American chidren to find out how he got so rich, or about the property he owns over here.

The liberal Minneapolis Star Tribune newspaper is concerned over home schooling. Parents might teach em about God, American values, Morals, the natural order of family,man & woman, self reliance, self defense, and GUNS, and lets not forget about that pesky freedom.

If the U.N doesn't agree with it, then I know it's usually good for America.

[FirstFreedom]

Of course. We can't have anything other than the NWO statist propoganda fed to the kiddos in a steady stream for 12 years. That leads to [egad] dissent!

[Wildalaska]

Parents might teach em about God, American values, Morals, the natural order of family,man & woman,

Teach me about that, especially the "natural order of family, man & woman"...

WildladiespayattentionnowAlaska

[carbiner]

Why is the U.N. so worried about the way we Americans live? They have told America to stay out of other countries ways of life.

I wonder if nice big spending cut to the U.N. would help to improve thier attitude

[Cowman]

Crazy me but it seems like this thing is aimed at places with opressive regimes where every school is a religious school and kids really are taught outright lies and really do get indoctrinated.

[Scott Conklin]

Even assuming that's true(and we of course don't know one way or the other) how much effort does it take to make similar claims about the US? We've had to listen to complaints of human rights violations and being the Evil Satan and a bit of everything else over the years. Getting one aspect of our education system labeled indoctrinating and extremist isn't much of a stretch.

Regardless, the question isn't so much what the aim was initially as what leftist/activist judges here can do with it and how the UN might use that...

[Twycross]

Has the UN ever influenced US law in the past in a manner such as we are discussing? Is there any precedent to this sort of thing?

As far as I've seen, the UN's impact on America is largely composed of NY parking tickets.

[carbiner]

What can you expect from a silly little club like the UN who elects Momar Khadafi to head the the human rights council. I mean thats a side splitting gut buster in it's self.

It wouldn't surprise me if we found out the UN was running a huge child prostitution ring in Africa and trafficing kids world wide for more funding.

They can't give Saddam any now, so they'll start sending it to Iran and help them make nukes, and maybe slip a little oil under the table too boot.

[TheBluesMan]

I've just deleted about a half-dozen posts from this thread. If you notice that one of yours is missing, it's time to re-think the manner in which you posted. Perhaps even re-read the rules and give some thought to Capt. Charlie's signature line:

TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you?

Carry on.

[bdcochran]

"I always thought that the US Constitution superceded everything eles. "

Go read it some time. The U.S. Constitution contemplates that international treaties shall supersede certain laws and/or become the law of the land.

Article. VI.

. . .

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

I always ask clients a tricky question: "Is there common law marriage in California?" Despite having been abolished by state statute in the 1920s, it can exist in some instances because of the U.S. Constitution.

DON'T ASSUME

[sm]

Tyranny has a history of using various names and methods to carry out and enforce its goals.

History also shares Tyranny prefers to disarm the masses, easier to defeat and control. Tyranny also using Indoctrination to disarm the masses.

Another thread discussed Trainers and Training schools, Tyranny does not want the masses to be educated in using arms against it. It does not matter so much the tool we are trained in , the simple fact the mind, body and spirit has been trained in something that can be used against Tyranny is the threat to Tyranny.

Ban books, control media, and right to gather...folks might discuss how to turn plowshares into swords, use a hoe, or axe to defend and preserve Freedom.

Homeschooling threatens Tyranny because Indoctrination is less feasible. Less feasible means less control and the ultimate goal of Tyranny is total control of the masses.

Free thinkers, students of history, students of legal and political thought and other fears of Tyranny bred forth from Non-Tyranny education centers.



WE post replies following TFL rules and Misson Statement for many reasons and one has been cited at least twice already in a signature line.

-Tyranny hates it when we are watching, articulate, keeping watch as expressed in posting replies.

-Tyranny hates it when Fence Sitters can read and follow links to truth and better side with Freedom - instead of Tyranny.

-Tyranny has its devout followers and puppets, we may not be able to change these folks, we can keep them busy and in doing so give Freedom a chance to reach , attract more Fence sitters.

Steve

[Handy]

Aside from the gloom and doom of the one flaky article, is there any substance to this discussion at all?


If any of that BS were true private Christian schools would also be in trouble.



This seems like an outlandish "what if", not a problem that is actually occuring. Please correct me.

[Rich Lucibella]

It IS outlandish and far-fetched. OTOH, that is what the UN is. Their officials seem to be concerned with nothing that's topical today other than lining their own pockets and legitimizing their own regimes.

What they do in those halls (other than steal and pillage) is to design and promote long-term plans that consolidate the powers of (you guessed it) the UN.

So, while this IS a crock in today's world, let's revisit the topic in about 20 years. We just might be surprised.
Rich

[Handy]

I'm not defending the UN, I'm just asking if the above extrapolation of whatever UN mandate has EVER produced any of the results feared.


A lot of UN policies are attempts (poor ones) to try and introduce some human rights to places that treat their women and childrew like slaves. I guess I naively believe that the members of the UN have not made any consideration at all of the US's "dangerous home-schooling problem".


UN hating is very much in vogue, and the conspiracy theorists love the slippery slope. But 20 years from now the UN will still be an organization that has almost no ability to even influence the rich and powerful countries that support it, let alone actually make policies designed to affect said members.


This looks to me like an extrapolation of a policy in a manner that it wasn't intended to and can never be enforced to advance an anti-UN agenda. If someone can quote a UN policy or official speaking of the US on this topic, I'd love to hear it.

[Ausserordeutlich]

Probably the greatest threat to homeschooling parents is that their kids will wake up one day and "discover' that the Earth isn't a few thousand years old and that dinosaurs and humans never coexisted. Consider the source for the hysteria over the UN's influencing the rights of homeschoolers or anybody else in the U.S.

[Marko Kloos]

It's a mistake to believe that all homeschoolers are religious fundamentalists who don't want their kids to know about evolution. A large number of the homeschoolers I know are libertarians and/or secular humanists who are fully aware of the importance of a well-rounded education including science. (I for one plan on homeschooling because I don't believe in substandard education, not because I don't "believe" in evolution.)

[carbiner]

Handy, hating the UN is not the latest fad, the UN has EARNED their reputation. Don't blame America for the fact that the UN is a failed group of know nothing left wing dictators.

If public schools started to convert over to private they would perform far beyond any liberal public school. We could give education a whole new future and attract great educators back into the field of real teaching.

Give parents their hard earned money back so they can CHOOSE a GOOD school for their kids.

[spacemanspiff]

There is a huge difference that should be noted: There are different kinds of homeschooling. One kind involves a curriculum devised by the parent or whatever person is chosen to do the teaching. Another involves state-approved curriculum that mirrors what others in the same grade level are provided.

Here in Alaska, due to a lack of schools in all rural areas, and that there are a lot of people who just live out in the boonies, the state decided to offer a correspondance based home school system, that employed actual teachers who would review and grade work sent in to them.

Now, the irony in my situation is, that although I did do this correspondance home schooling, I was also raised in a rather fundamental religious home. The two were not exactly linked though. Whether or not it was the right decision for me, I was not forced into it, even at grade school level, hearing about public school from my older brother and sister, and from friends, I knew I'd be better off studying at home. Often I had the exact same textbooks to use as my friends did in public school. Except I finished my courses as fast as I wanted. By the time I was in 9th grade, I could finish an entire semester in 3 or 4 weeks.

It had its blessing and curses, but I think I came away with a decent education. I didn't graduate through it, when my junior year was going to extend to two years due to counselors conveniently 'forgetting' they approved certain special courses for my required credits in math and science, I decided I had enough. At least I got my GED though. And I have a job in the exciting career of Insurance! Extorting premiums and denying claims since 1882!

[Long Path]

Regarding homeschooling, I saw NOTHING in the convention that in any way threatened homeschooling:

Article 28
1. States Parties recognize the right of the child to education, and with a view to achieving this right progressively and on the basis of equal opportunity, they shall, in particular:
(a) Make primary education compulsory and available free to all;

(b) Encourage the development of different forms of secondary education, including general and vocational education, make them available and accessible to every child, and take appropriate measures such as the introduction of free education and offering financial assistance in case of need;

(c) Make higher education accessible to all on the basis of capacity by every appropriate means;

(d) Make educational and vocational information and guidance available and accessible to all children;

(e) Take measures to encourage regular attendance at schools and the reduction of drop-out rates.

2. States Parties shall take all appropriate measures to ensure that school discipline is administered in a manner consistent with the child's human dignity and in conformity with the present Convention.

3. States Parties shall promote and encourage international cooperation in matters relating to education, in particular with a view to contributing to the elimination of ignorance and illiteracy throughout the world and facilitating access to scientific and technical knowledge and modern teaching methods. In this regard, particular account shall be taken of the needs of developing countries.

[theinvisibleheart]

1. There is a general tendency in Europe to regard universal (free education) as a basic, fundamental right. There are many in U.S. who also hold the same POV.

2. Constitutional issues --- murky since there was no federal public school during the time of founding and most schools were privately funded in the early years, despite relatively high literacy rate.

3. home schooled children are ranked no. 1, graduates of private schools are ranked no. 2, and public school children are ranked the last.

4. my understanding is that functional competency counts far more than any training in education (B.A. in English qualifies a teacher to be a far better English teacher than a degree in Education). My current suspicion is that the current system of using study material similar to public school do far more harm than good.

5. under the current system, what matters is not what the written law says, but it's based on case law which presents a precedent for how to interpret the intent of the law. Even if the basis for the case law/precedent is flawed....until somebody comes with a challenge that overturns the precedent.

John Stossell did a very good segment on public education couple of months ago called "Stupid in America."

--John