How do you ID an M1 Carbine?

M4Sherman · March 18, 2009, 11:03 AM

Okay I have inherited an M1 carbine from my grandfather and he said it was just a mail-order junker. So I thought okay It is still a neat gun even if it was a post-war production and it was a gift so no real loss. But then I showed it to my gun man so I could get a barrel band for it and he told me it wasn't a post war production because it had a bayonet lug,. Now I am super confused about it and want to figure out who made this dang thing. any tips?

PetahW · March 18, 2009, 11:11 AM

Most were marked, as to maker, atop the metal rear fitting to the rear of the bolt, just ahead of the grip.

Many GI guns on the market place are assemblies, from guy's buying all the parts and assembling a complete Carbine.
Sometimes the assembler holds out for all parts from the same maker, but many do not - resulting in a gun with mis-matched parts that works perfectly fine.

AFAIK, commercial M1 Carbines, like Plainville's etc, had the barrel marked with the maker's name.

Prior to GCA-68, many military surplus firearms were easily obtainable from mail-order houses, inexpensively, specializing in mil-surp.

.

M4Sherman · March 18, 2009, 11:27 AM

One more question where are all the serials on a natl ord?

TLeo · March 18, 2009, 01:09 PM

Look on top of the receiver behind the rear sight for a serial number and the name of the maker. USGI carbine were marked there with those markings. If it has an adjustable sight, the name will be pretty well hidden but kind of look from the side of the receiver and use a light. USGI carbines will also have a makers name stamped into the barrel just below the front sight and usually a date. Most government carbines went through a rebuild process after WW2 and during Korea to add adjustable rear sights and bayonet lugs.
You should also check the stock to see if there are any markings in the slingwell, such as initials, and on the right side of the but since usgi stocks were also marked there with makers stamps. Looking for those things will tell you if you have a true usgi carbine or one of the post war commercial copies.
The commercial copies like national ordnance also stamped their serial and name on rear of the receiver I think.

PetahW · March 18, 2009, 07:26 PM

If your M1 Carbine is a National Ordnance, National Ordnance made copies of US-GI firearms using US-GI parts kits and new invesment cast receivers (usually - although some have been seen with Winchester receivers) - kind of like a 60's version of Century Arms.

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Tom2 · March 18, 2009, 09:39 PM

Read what TLeo says. If the carbine is all GI parts, mixed or not, it is still worth good money in great condition, or not. Some guns made with commercial receivers are still considered somewhat collectable, depending on the maker, maybe not as desireable as GI, but if very rare or uncommon, maybe getting close in value. When I see late model Universal carbines for 400$ at gun shows(asking) then I know the market is insane and your gun is probably worth something. But we need more info.

M4Sherman · March 18, 2009, 10:51 PM

I will grab some pics soon but the sling hole looks to say U or 0
c c
l l

and the front sight is marked EU and the serial is in the 5700 range

conradwojo · March 18, 2009, 11:32 PM

Alpines have serial numbers in the 5700 range and they were sold mail order. Check under the rear sight for manufacturer. Alpines also used a lot of GI parts so those marked pieces are not unusual. Curious to see what you have !!!

Tom2 · March 19, 2009, 08:15 AM

Alpines are a pretty old commercial carbine assembler/maker. They might even be considered somewhat collectable. You have to keep in mind that some makers made receivers that were castings, not quite into mil spec, or out of tolerances. Or soft steels not hardened like GI receivers. Maybe a gunsmith inspection and headspace check is in order. Excessive headspace is a problem with some commercial guns.

TLeo · March 19, 2009, 08:27 AM

Let us know what other markings you can find on the internal parts as well. The EU on the front sight is a marking used on front sights made for Underwood carbines during WW2.

M4Sherman · March 19, 2009, 09:06 PM

ok I am stripping it down to the base parts looking for numbers and so far I have found a few

On the Bayonet lug there are the letters "SU" the thing that the gas piston pushes back has the numbers D-71618-- stamped on it along with the letters SG right beneath

right near the hammer spring it also says "enland"

so far that is all I have on it

EDIT: also the piece where the receiver slides into the stock is marked RIA or R1A

Ruger4570 · March 19, 2009, 09:20 PM

Two things I noticed and I am truly not an M1 Carbine expurt, I just own an old Inland Carbine. I looked at the pic of your gun and notice the trigger assembly has a reddish color to it. That might be a sign of a reblue job. The mag release and safety appear to be "blue" in comparison. From what I understand, M1 Carbine trigger assemblies don't "blue" easily. I heard you have to really crank up the heat to blue them as opposed to other parts of the gun. If you gun is an actual US Military issue it will say the manufacturer at the rear sight, period. Otherwise, it is anyones guess as to who made it.

Orlando · May 2, 2009, 01:55 PM

You mentioned National Ordance, is that what your carbine is marked? If so its a commercial made reciever with the other parts being USGI. It has no collector value. Some National Ordanace Carbines ran OK some dont

March 18, 2009, 11:03 AM	#1
M4Sherman Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 408	How do you ID an M1 Carbine? Okay I have inherited an M1 carbine from my grandfather and he said it was just a mail-order junker. So I thought okay It is still a neat gun even if it was a post-war production and it was a gift so no real loss. But then I showed it to my gun man so I could get a barrel band for it and he told me it wasn't a post war production because it had a bayonet lug,. Now I am super confused about it and want to figure out who made this dang thing. any tips?

March 18, 2009, 09:39 PM	#6
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Read what TLeo says. If the carbine is all GI parts, mixed or not, it is still worth good money in great condition, or not. Some guns made with commercial receivers are still considered somewhat collectable, depending on the maker, maybe not as desireable as GI, but if very rare or uncommon, maybe getting close in value. When I see late model Universal carbines for 400$ at gun shows(asking) then I know the market is insane and your gun is probably worth something. But we need more info. __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

March 18, 2009, 11:32 PM	#8
conradwojo Junior Member Join Date: January 20, 2005 Location: Buffalo Wyoming Posts: 5	5700 range serial number Alpines have serial numbers in the 5700 range and they were sold mail order. Check under the rear sight for manufacturer. Alpines also used a lot of GI parts so those marked pieces are not unusual. Curious to see what you have !!!

March 19, 2009, 08:15 AM	#9
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Alpines are a pretty old commercial carbine assembler/maker. They might even be considered somewhat collectable. You have to keep in mind that some makers made receivers that were castings, not quite into mil spec, or out of tolerances. Or soft steels not hardened like GI receivers. Maybe a gunsmith inspection and headspace check is in order. Excessive headspace is a problem with some commercial guns. __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

March 19, 2009, 09:06 PM	#11
M4Sherman Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 408	ok I am stripping it down to the base parts looking for numbers and so far I have found a few On the Bayonet lug there are the letters "SU" the thing that the gas piston pushes back has the numbers D-71618-- stamped on it along with the letters SG right beneath right near the hammer spring it also says "enland" so far that is all I have on it EDIT: also the piece where the receiver slides into the stock is marked RIA or R1A Last edited by M4Sherman; March 19, 2009 at 09:14 PM. Reason: New Info

March 18, 2009, 11:11 AM	#2
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	Most were marked, as to maker, atop the metal rear fitting to the rear of the bolt, just ahead of the grip. Many GI guns on the market place are assemblies, from guy's buying all the parts and assembling a complete Carbine. Sometimes the assembler holds out for all parts from the same maker, but many do not - resulting in a gun with mis-matched parts that works perfectly fine. AFAIK, commercial M1 Carbines, like Plainville's etc, had the barrel marked with the maker's name. Prior to GCA-68, many military surplus firearms were easily obtainable from mail-order houses, inexpensively, specializing in mil-surp. .

March 18, 2009, 11:27 AM	#3
M4Sherman Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 408	One more question where are all the serials on a natl ord?

March 18, 2009, 01:09 PM	#4
TLeo Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2009 Location: NC Posts: 254	Look on top of the receiver behind the rear sight for a serial number and the name of the maker. USGI carbine were marked there with those markings. If it has an adjustable sight, the name will be pretty well hidden but kind of look from the side of the receiver and use a light. USGI carbines will also have a makers name stamped into the barrel just below the front sight and usually a date. Most government carbines went through a rebuild process after WW2 and during Korea to add adjustable rear sights and bayonet lugs. You should also check the stock to see if there are any markings in the slingwell, such as initials, and on the right side of the but since usgi stocks were also marked there with makers stamps. Looking for those things will tell you if you have a true usgi carbine or one of the post war commercial copies. The commercial copies like national ordnance also stamped their serial and name on rear of the receiver I think.

March 18, 2009, 07:26 PM	#5
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	If your M1 Carbine is a National Ordnance, National Ordnance made copies of US-GI firearms using US-GI parts kits and new invesment cast receivers (usually - although some have been seen with Winchester receivers) - kind of like a 60's version of Century Arms. .

March 18, 2009, 10:51 PM	#7
M4Sherman Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 408	I will grab some pics soon but the sling hole looks to say U or 0 c c l l and the front sight is marked EU and the serial is in the 5700 range

March 19, 2009, 08:27 AM	#10
TLeo Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2009 Location: NC Posts: 254	Let us know what other markings you can find on the internal parts as well. The EU on the front sight is a marking used on front sights made for Underwood carbines during WW2.

March 19, 2009, 09:20 PM	#12
Ruger4570 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 2,136	Two things I noticed and I am truly not an M1 Carbine expurt, I just own an old Inland Carbine. I looked at the pic of your gun and notice the trigger assembly has a reddish color to it. That might be a sign of a reblue job. The mag release and safety appear to be "blue" in comparison. From what I understand, M1 Carbine trigger assemblies don't "blue" easily. I heard you have to really crank up the heat to blue them as opposed to other parts of the gun. If you gun is an actual US Military issue it will say the manufacturer at the rear sight, period. Otherwise, it is anyones guess as to who made it.

May 2, 2009, 01:55 PM	#13
Orlando Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2009 Posts: 352	You mentioned National Ordance, is that what your carbine is marked? If so its a commercial made reciever with the other parts being USGI. It has no collector value. Some National Ordanace Carbines ran OK some dont