Interstate Transfer Question

[CiceroM]

Hi, I don't know how common this situation is, but here it is:
I know that to sell a handgun to someone in another state one must send it to an FFL in the buyer's state. I guess this is normally done through shipping it through UPS or Fedex. But does it have to be shipped?

I live on the border, and the buyer lives in the town just on the other side of the border. Must I actually pay $40 to ship the handgun next-day-air to a shop two miles away, or can I just carry it there so that the transfer can be made?

[Librarian]

That's up to the receiving FFL and his business policy.

Some will accept a 'walk in'; some will not.

[kilimanjaro]

You can't sell a handgun in another state, not being a dealer or C&R holder.

You might find an FFL in your town willing to take it across the line to the other FFL, or ride along with you, during the course of a week or so, but you're going to have to pay for that service, or pay for shipping, either way.

[CiceroM]

Oh, I forgot to mention (I'm not sure if it's relevant in this case.) I have a C&R license, and the handgun is classified as a C&R.

[RX-79G]

You might find an FFL in your town willing to take it across the line to the other FFL, or ride along with you, during the course of a week or so, but you're going to have to pay for that service, or pay for shipping, either way.

I have no idea where you're getting this from. This forum is sometimes so frustrating when it comes to people over complicating the laws.


OP, you can travel with your gun over state lines. You can transport your gun to an FFL dealer in another state and leave it with them. The idea that a private carrier can do something you can't is just absurd.

I would take Librarian's advice and call the dealer, first. There is a good listing of transfer dealers by zip code on Gunbroker.com with their fees listed. The buyer can even meet you there and look at the gun before it is transferred, should you desire.

C&R is a different animal, and I don't know those rules at all. But I would imagine that the buyer would, at a minimum, have to have a C&R, too. If not your C&R doesn't really change anything - anybody can drive their own gun over state lines and leave it with a dealer.

[carguychris]

C&R is a different animal, and I don't know those rules at all. But I would imagine that the buyer would, at a minimum, have to have a C&R, too. If not your C&R doesn't really change anything - anybody can drive their own gun over state lines and leave it with a dealer.

An 03 Collector FFL- aka C&R license- works basically the same way as a 01 Dealer, 02 Pawnbroker, or 07 Manufacturer FFL so far as interstate transfers are concerned; this is the primary reason one obtains an 03 Collector license. In addition, C&R FFL's aren't required to obtain a NICS background check when selling to a non-licensee.

There are, however, a handful of caveats.

• The C&R license is ONLY usable when transferring C&R-eligible firearms. This CAN sometimes become problematic when the C&R status of a particular firearm is in dispute.
• C&R licensees are specifically prohibited from mailing handguns other than legal antiques. (This is in the postal regulations.) Due to FedEx and UPS policies requiring handguns to go Next Day Air, this often makes handgun shipments uneconomical compared to using a regular FFL; paying $25-$35 for a USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate Box w/ insurance vs. $60-$80 for Next Day Air often offsets the added $10-$30 transfer fee.

That said- in this particular situation- I cannot fathom any reason why a FFL would refuse to accept a C&R firearm from a walk-in out-of-state C&R FFL, UNLESS the C&R status is in dispute OR the firearm is illegal to possess in the destination state, in which case the C&R licensee is probably in more trouble than the destination FFL or the intended buyer. The paperwork for the destination FFL is easier- you hand over a signed copy of the license and everything should be golden. Rejecting the transfer would be truly asinine in this case.

[JimmyR]

Originally Posted by kilimanjaro

You can't sell a handgun in another state, not being a dealer or C&R holder.

Sorry Kilamanjaro, but you're way off base here.

OP, I live on a state border, and have had guns for sale that people in the next state (2 miles) have wanted. As has been suggested, call some of the FFLs in the buyer's state, and see if they will accept an in person transfer.

Your C&R really has no merit in this discussion, since no one, not even even an FFL can sell a handgun outside their own state without sending the weapon through an FFL within the buyer's state of residence.

[CiceroM]

Thanks for the replies, they've been very helpful. I give a few FFLs a call, of the many in that town, I'm sure at least one would be willing to take it in person. I really don't want to have to pay $40 and arrange for UPS to come pick up a package I can deliver myself in five minutes.

Thanks again!

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by JimmyR

Your C&R really has no merit in this discussion, since no one, not even even an FFL cannot [can?] sell outside their own state without sending the weapon through an FFL within the buyer's state of residence.

Although the OP's question has IMHO been adequately answered, I think that one minor clarification may be needed regarding this particular statement, depending on how one interprets the phrase "outside their own state".

A FFL is allowed to sell a long gun to an unlicensed resident of any state, provided that the transaction occurs at the FFL's licensed premises, and the transaction complies with the laws of both states. This applies to C&R licensees (collectors) as well as to dealers. [27 CFR § 478.96(c)(1)(i)] [EDIT: Additional info given in post #16.]

However, (a) this provision is not applicable to handgun transfers, as in the OP's situation, and (b) the transaction cannot literally and physically occur outside of the state in which the FFL is licensed. (If this is what JimmyR means by the phrase "outside their own state", then the statement is absolutely correct.)

[Spats McGee]

I'd just add one more wrinkle to this. I cannot tell from the OP which states we're talking about. I'd certainly call ahead to the FFL and see if they'll take a walk-in, but I would also make sure I told the FFL what kind of gun I was proposing to walk in with. I say this because you don't want to show up with a weapon that would be illegal in the destination state, potentially to be charged with importing an illegal firearm into the state.

[TLeo]

Does the buyer also have a C&R license? If so, you can ship a C&R firearm directly to him. If not, it would still need to be shipped to a 01 FFL.

[RX-79G]

No Tleo, he does not have to SHIP to an ffl.

Go through an ffl, yes. Must ship; no.

[JimmyR]

I editted my post with corrections astutely made by carguychris.

Originally Posted by Spats McGee

I'd just add one more wrinkle to this. I cannot tell from the OP which states we're talking about. I'd certainly call ahead to the FFL and see if they'll take a walk-in, but I would also make sure I told the FFL what kind of gun I was proposing to walk in with. I say this because you don't want to show up with a weapon that would be illegal in the destination state, potentially to be charged with importing an illegal firearm into the state.

Leave it to Spats to point out the (what should be) obvious element to interstate firearms transfers. Dead on, and worth reading twice.

[TLeo]

right RX, I said ship assuming that is what he planned to do, but should have included in person through ffl.

[Spats McGee]

Originally Posted by JimmyR

Leave it to Spats to point out the (what should be) obvious element to interstate firearms transfers.

Yes, some days I really DO don the Captain Obvious Cape!

[carguychris]

^^^^ Speaking of Captain Obvious, I should have mentioned in my prior posts that an 03 Collector FLL only allows the C&R licensee to acquire and dispose of C&R-eligible firearms across state lines. An 03 FFL does not give a licensed collector any special legal privileges or status when conducting interstate transactions involving firearms that are NOT curios and relics [27 CFR § 478.93].

I get to wear the cape too.

[Don P]

Your C&R really has no merit in this discussion, since no one, not even even an FFL can sell a handgun outside their own state without sending the weapon through an FFL within the buyer's state of residence.

With my C&R I can purchase through the INTERNET, or in person in any state providing the firearm is C&R eligible, long gun, hand gun. Does not make a difference. One of the benefits of the C&R on a road trip. Find something, C&R eligible, have a copy unsigned of your C&R, sign it give it to the seller, pay the price and out the door, PERIOD!!!!

[chokeoloko]

your better off shipping it because the FFL will do all the paper work for you, that way you wont be responsible for any issues that might occur since it is a out of state firearm

[RX-79G]

What issues? What paperwork would a non-FFL ever fill out themselves?

Where are you getting this idea that a $40 FedEx is less hassle than driving 20 minutes?????

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by JimmyR

Your C&R really has no merit in this discussion, since no one, not even even an FFL can sell a handgun outside their own state without sending the weapon through an FFL within the buyer's state of residence.

Don P, while you're generally correct about the acquisition of firearms by a C&R FFL (state law permitting), it has no bearing on the OP's situation- the DELIVERY of a handgun to a non-licensee who resides in another state.

It is not lawful for ANY FFL to do this, C&R or otherwise, regardless of where the transaction physically takes place. [27 CFR § 478.99(a)]* [Edited to add footnote.]

Originally Posted by chokeoloko

your better off shipping it because the FFL will do all the paper work for you, that way you wont be responsible for any issues that might occur since it is a out of state firearm

The OP, being a licensed collector, has to log the receiving FFL's name and license number in his/her bound book [27 CFR § 478.125(f)]- but this applies regardless of how the firearm is physically delivered to the receiving FFL. IOW other than this minor wrinkle, RX-79G is basically correct here- there is NO paperwork benefit to using a common carrier instead of personal delivery. In fact, shipping the firearm would create MORE paperwork, since the OP would have to fill out a waybill for the common carrier!

[*EDIT: I haven't hunted for the citation, but I know that there is a narrow and specific delivery exception for a firearm that is being returned to its owner by a manufacturer after repairs have been performed; however, this exception has no relevance to the out-of-state delivery of a handgun for the purpose of sale.]