Heavy 357 Mag Cast & Full Case H110/W296 loads

mehavey · May 11, 2012, 06:06 PM

Warning -- OverMax Loads discussed

Working w/ the BearTooth 185 FNGC bullet in a modern`92Winchester.
OALs run 1.570" w/ heavy roll crimp in all instances.
Powders already run: 2400, Lil'Gun, V-N110
Cases are Starline: 27.0gr H2O

Now looking at H110/W296....

Most all "Published Manual" loads for W296/H110 & 185gr bullets (lead or jacketed) top out at 13.5-14.0grains.
This is at odds w/ the majority of high-performance internet loads from experienced shooters hitting 16.0gr & higher.
Further, the "296 rule of thumb" discussed at length by very respected TFL members is that a 100% full case of
W296/H110 (i.e., up to bullet base) can be considered a safe Max.

With the StarlineCase/185gr Beartooth combination that's 16.7gr H110

I'd appreciate re-discussion of experiences here on the 357Mag/Heavy Cast possibilities using W296/H110 ...before I start up the ladder.

wncchester · May 11, 2012, 06:19 PM

I've been handloading since '65. What I "do" is my business and I don't ask anyone else's blessings to do it. What I DON'T DO is discuss anything hotter than book loads on an open web site.

mehavey · May 11, 2012, 07:49 PM

Thank you very much.
Your input is appreciated.

mehavey · May 11, 2012, 08:53 PM

Other readers might be interested in this thread:

http://www.shootersforum.com/handloa...ain-loads.html

Again, I note the warning of over-book load discussion -- not recommendation.
___________________________________________________________
Hopkins: Well, in all my years I ain't never heard, seen nor smelled an issue that
was so dangerous it couldn't be talked about. Hell yeah! I'm for debating anything.
Rhode Island says yea!
Stephen Hopkins (7 March 1707 – 13 July 1785)
1776

.

mehavey · May 12, 2012, 08:22 AM

Taking the issue further, conventional wisdom says you do not want to underload/leave a large case volume vacant w/ H110/W296. In fact many sources will instruct that load density should approach 100% for proper ignition/burn, and significant reductions from that are at the shooter's risk.

Well, the 100% load density (to base of bullet/actually measured) for the 185 BearTooth FNGC seated to crimp groove/1.570" is 16.7gr. Reducing that to the 13.5-14.0gr found in most loading manuals means I'd be running only 80-84% load density -- definitely not in accord w/ guidance for this powder.

So if anyone's got informed ideas on how to bridge the rather large gap between blindly following the "Manual" -- and complying w/ equally hard guidance to avoid underloading this powder, I'd sure appreciate it.

PawPaw · May 12, 2012, 10:37 AM

I use L'il Gun in my 180 grain lead .357 loads and I get 1200 fps from my 6" Model 28 and 1600 fps from my Marlin 1894. We won't discuss charge weights.

mehavey · May 12, 2012, 10:52 AM

-delete-

black mamba · May 12, 2012, 10:52 AM

Seating depth in straight-walled cases is very critical to pressures, and your combo just might be fine. I have read that most starting loads for 296/H110 are at 93% to base of bullet, so 15.5 gr in your case.

mehavey · May 13, 2012, 03:08 PM

WARNING: OVERBOOK LOADS SHOWN:

After three days of interpolating between Lyman data for near/but-not-same (SAECO) 180gr bullet, measured/exact
water volume for Starline cases, matching Quickload calculations, and split-the-difference between precise 93-100% load
densities underneath a specific/measured shank depth -- for mid-pressure pushing heavy lead...

(Charges thrown by Harrells Schuetzen measure)
This is what came out today at 50 yds:

THIS RIFLE, THIS BULLET, THESE CASES, THIS POWDER LOT -- ONLY --
Your mileage will definitely vary

May 11, 2012, 06:06 PM	#1
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,894	Heavy 357 Mag Cast & Full Case H110/W296 loads Warning -- OverMax Loads discussed Working w/ the BearTooth 185 FNGC bullet in a modern`92Winchester. OALs run 1.570" w/ heavy roll crimp in all instances. Powders already run: 2400, Lil'Gun, V-N110 Cases are Starline: 27.0gr H2O Now looking at H110/W296.... Most all "Published Manual" loads for W296/H110 & 185gr bullets (lead or jacketed) top out at 13.5-14.0grains. This is at odds w/ the majority of high-performance internet loads from experienced shooters hitting 16.0gr & higher. Further, the "296 rule of thumb" discussed at length by very respected TFL members is that a 100% full case of W296/H110 (i.e., up to bullet base) can be considered a safe Max. With the StarlineCase/185gr Beartooth combination that's 16.7gr H110 I'd appreciate re-discussion of experiences here on the 357Mag/Heavy Cast possibilities using W296/H110 ...before I start up the ladder.

May 11, 2012, 07:49 PM	#3
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,894	Thank you very much. Your input is appreciated. Last edited by mehavey; May 11, 2012 at 07:59 PM.

May 11, 2012, 08:53 PM	#4
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,894	Other readers might be interested in this thread: http://www.shootersforum.com/handloa...ain-loads.html Again, I note the warning of over-book load discussion -- not recommendation. ___________________________________________________________ Hopkins: Well, in all my years I ain't never heard, seen nor smelled an issue that was so dangerous it couldn't be talked about. Hell yeah! I'm for debating anything. Rhode Island says yea! Stephen Hopkins (7 March 1707 – 13 July 1785) 1776 . Last edited by mehavey; May 11, 2012 at 09:01 PM.

May 12, 2012, 10:37 AM	#6
PawPaw Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Location: Central Louisiana Posts: 3,137	I use L'il Gun in my 180 grain lead .357 loads and I get 1200 fps from my 6" Model 28 and 1600 fps from my Marlin 1894. We won't discuss charge weights. __________________ Dennis Dezendorf http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com

May 13, 2012, 03:08 PM	#9
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,894	WARNING: OVERBOOK LOADS SHOWN: After three days of interpolating between Lyman data for near/but-not-same (SAECO) 180gr bullet, measured/exact water volume for Starline cases, matching Quickload calculations, and split-the-difference between precise 93-100% load densities underneath a specific/measured shank depth -- for mid-pressure pushing heavy lead... (Charges thrown by Harrells Schuetzen measure) This is what came out today at 50 yds: THIS RIFLE, THIS BULLET, THESE CASES, THIS POWDER LOT -- ONLY -- Your mileage will definitely vary Last edited by mehavey; May 13, 2012 at 03:18 PM.

May 11, 2012, 06:19 PM	#2
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	I've been handloading since '65. What I "do" is my business and I don't ask anyone else's blessings to do it. What I DON'T DO is discuss anything hotter than book loads on an open web site.

May 12, 2012, 08:22 AM	#5
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,894	Taking the issue further, conventional wisdom says you do not want to underload/leave a large case volume vacant w/ H110/W296. In fact many sources will instruct that load density should approach 100% for proper ignition/burn, and significant reductions from that are at the shooter's risk. Well, the 100% load density (to base of bullet/actually measured) for the 185 BearTooth FNGC seated to crimp groove/1.570" is 16.7gr. Reducing that to the 13.5-14.0gr found in most loading manuals means I'd be running only 80-84% load density -- definitely not in accord w/ guidance for this powder. So if anyone's got informed ideas on how to bridge the rather large gap between blindly following the "Manual" -- and complying w/ equally hard guidance to avoid underloading this powder, I'd sure appreciate it.

May 12, 2012, 10:52 AM	#7
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,894	-delete-

May 12, 2012, 10:52 AM	#8
black mamba Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2011 Location: SW Florida Posts: 890	Seating depth in straight-walled cases is very critical to pressures, and your combo just might be fine. I have read that most starting loads for 296/H110 are at 93% to base of bullet, so 15.5 gr in your case.