Which Would You Carry?

[chemcal]

You have given us 3 very different guns

Yes; like Red, Blond and Brunet. Ok, I would try to edit, but I'm limited to these three. I feel comfortable at the range with all but don"t really want to rotate; I really appreciate the replies. I know open ended questions are frustrating

[cougar gt-e]

250sc

IWB all day carry, pushes me to the thinnest, lightest option. If it's uncomfortable, it will be left home. A gun in the safe at home is not as effective as a gun with suboptimal trigger on the hip or in hand.

After 16hours with a double stack, the thought taking it off is a monumental sigh of relief. But I've been surprised the dinky single stack was still tucked in when getting ready for bed.

Just my $0.02

[chemcal]

Which other singe stack? Also, does the lesser amount of ammo of a single stack concern you?

[chemcal]

In another thread marine6680 said:

"It is up to the individual to determine how big of a margin for error that they are comfortable with."

I think this is what I'm trying to find my way to; a comfort zone. Marine, you picked a PPQ in the poll. I know people who have had ADs while firing in IDPA(gun went off before they really wanted it to).

Do you have time to elaborate on safety under stress with these three guns?

[Bart Noir]

I voted for the 250sc.

I have a PPQ M2 and it is for sale. I am not comfortable with such a light trigger and no external safety and decided that I prefer the P99 AS in 9mm. That will probably be my next purchase as I very much like it in .40. The ability to decock is important to me. I also do not like the rather too light button to release the magazine since it lets people do the wrong sort of "mag dump" at the range

You will not have that mag release issue with the PPQ 1, of course.

The SIG 220 might be steel or aluminum framed but is big either way.

The SIG 250 has a trigger pull close to that of a fine double action revolver, and since I'm the old geezer type who likes to blaze away in double action, it is a fine trigger.

And then there is size, which is also important. The 250sc is small enough that it will be easier to conceal than the other two.

Bart Noir

[chemcal]

Very thoughtful post Bart.

[Tactical Jackalope]

Well I'm a SIG guy, so....lol P220.

I've carried that for a little while anyways.

I carry a P229 or P226 now.

I carry a Glock 19 when it rains.

[chemcal]

Did you move from the p220 because of ammo count?

[jr24]

I voted P220, as I carried it some when I owned one and it wasn't too much more difficult to carry when compared to my 1911's or Glock 21. I eventually got rid of it due to the DA/SA trigger system and my general dislike of how far back in the pull Sig triggers break.

Me, I prefer a carry gun with an overall height no greater than 5 inches. Glock 19/23/30S work great for me with size.

[Tactical Jackalope]

Did you move from the p220 because of ammo count?

Yes. I am a capacity whore. The only guns I'll carry on my person chambered in .45ACP are a Glock 41 or HK USP 45.

I mean, regardless I carry spare magazines. I have my P229 on me now with 15+1 and I have 2 x 20 round spares on me. People love to negatively comment on how I carry and what I carry, but their opinions really mean less than nothing to me.

The Achilles heel to the semi-automatic handgun is the magazine.
Extra ammo is only bad when you're in a fire or drowning.
Same reason we carry a gun, better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Same applies to my spare mags.

[BigJimP]

Ammo capacity is often debated on here ..and other forums...but in my view, for a typical CCW weapon, its an overrated issue.

We are not trying to be cops ...or get involved in issues where we don't belong... and while I understand you can't predict what might happen ( multiple attackers, etc )...most of the experts seem to be saying learning to shoot effectively ( tactically accurate ) at distances between 3 and 24 Feet...is the most effective thing for personal defense. And in most cases its over very quickly - with only a few shots being fired...

So a Sig 239 ( single stack ) in 9mm is 8 + 1 ...( in .40 S&W its 7 + 1 ) ...or a lot of 1911's are 8 + 1 in .45 acp or 10 + 1 in 9mm.../ and an extra mag on your belt....and you'll be just fine.

Tactically accurate - as I interpret it ....is hitting roughly a 8 1/2" X 11" rectangle....( more or less nipple to nipple - and down toward belly button ) ...look at the ICE qualification target for a rough idea...and while there is a center "bulls eye" in that target where we'd all like our shots to be...if you can draw and triple tap that target at 5 - 8 yds in under 3 sec ( 2 sec for the draw to 1 shot --- and 0.5 sec for each of the next 2 shots )...you'll be in decent shape. If you want to add in a speed load for training...gun goes to slide lock - speed reload to 1 shot is 3.0 sec.... ( so a draw and fire 3 is 3.0 sec - speed reload to 4th shot is 3.0 sec ..and last 2 shots are 0.5 each ) for a total string time of 7 sec for all 6 shots. Or a draw and fire 8 shots...( no reload ) ....is 2.0 to 1st shot ( 0.5 for each subsequent shot 0 or 5.5 sec or less for all 8 shots....

So you set standards for training...use a timer to add some stress...and execute these simple drills ( to a tactically accurate area that is center chest ). If you can't execute those drills at 90% or better....train more often ...and get your muscle memory built in ( just like in shooting clays ...you need some repetition on what the lead feels like ...and smoothness )...you train with handguns using a lot of the same concepts.

But picking a gun is still your biggest first step.....and I wouldn't let capacity be a huge factor right now.

[dgludwig]

QUOTE: This poll is sort of tricky because you have different calibers (unless you mean the 45 ACP PPQ that is coming out), as well as different cartridge ignition mechanisms, different trigger mechanisms, and different sizes. Sort of tricky to compare.

Very tricky, indeed. No "apples to apples" comparison here. I prefer the SIG Model 220 because I like the .45 ACP as a self-defense cartridge and I much prefer a "traditional" da pistol. I carry mine (actually, a Model 227 to get the extra couple of rounds and a better "feeling" grip for me) comfortably and well-concealed in a Galco "King Tuk" iwb holster.

[Brutus]

I have two holsters both from Galco. Miami classic shoulder holster and a IWB.
IWB gets used the most.

[Bongo Boy]

Of the three you offered, because those are the rules of the game, I'd select the Walther. Why?

1) I've owned a P220 and I'd never actually carry it because of it's size. As attractive as 45ACP is, I wouldn't select such a large gun especially having an 8+1 limit. 8+1 itself doesn't bother me at all--I carry a Kahr K40 and have no concerns about its 6+1 limit. I just wouldn't choose something I consider enormous AND pay an unnecessary penalty in capacity. In my experience shooting 45 as fast as possible, I can do quite a bit better with lighter, smaller 45s. I find it a little cumbersome, although I must say that, in shooting IDPA with it, the SA/SA trigger was never a factor and never really noticed. I've never found trigger weight, reset length, or anything else to be a factor when I've shot all stressed out--it's not there.

2) The Walther is available in 40SW which is my preferred 'lightweight' round (the lightest I'm comfortable carrying), it appears to be a fairly 'right-sized' gun to me, and justified considering the 40SW and capacity options. With what appears to be virtually equivalent to a SA trigger, it would be my choice--but I've never fired one and of course would want to at least handle and dry fire one if that was the only 'pre-flight' option.

3) P250sc appears to me to be a very small DAO, with impressive capacity, but my experience in learning to shoot a small DAO pistol has been a real challenge. I'd expect it to be an excellent pistol that most folks would tend to carry regularly because of it's size. Being available in a 10+1 40SW configuration is a big plus to me--but I expect it take extensive practice and patience. Not a bad thing, just my 2nd choice as I've already done it and it requires a lot of attention. A somewhat larger handgun is, to me, an advantage regardless of trigger. I'm not familiar with any of Sig's polymer, striker-fired weapons, and if interested in this gun for some reason, would want to at least handle and dry-fire one. Just because a manufacturer advertises a product as 'DAO' doesn't mean it's DA in any familiar sense. I think S&W still advertises their M&P line as 'DA' or 'DAO', and the 2 I own are as SA as any gun can be.

[Cyanide971]

Bongo, it's a real DAO, and with a wonderful 6.5# pull.

[Bongo Boy]

it's a real DAO, and with a wonderful 6.5# pull

Yes okay, so I wouldn't discount it outright because of that, but my own experience with the relatively long and somewhat stout DAO trigger on a small gun (K40) is that my weak hand needed quite a good bit of shooting to get a LOT less weak, AND I had to learn to shoot with half my trigger finger wrapped around the trigger. Totally new kind of handling needed.

Then there was the matter of presenting the gun then starting the trigger cycle. Initially, it felt like (and was) a two-step process that took too long. For me, and I'm just saying that again, for ME it was a good 1,500 rds of shooting before gun and shooter behaved like a team. That learning seems to rapidly fade, too, given 95% of my shooting is with medium to full-size SA guns. I seldom ever shoot the 629 in double-action either, as it's strictly a range toy and not remotely intended for personal protection.