Proper Stance

[K80Geoff]

OK, here I go off on another rant...

In this month's American Rifleman (May 2001) in the Article about LEO weapons I have spotted one of the most grevious errors a shooter can make with a shotgun! On page 89 in the top left corner we have a picture of a female type LEO apparently doing some type of qualification with a shotgun. She is being coached by a guy in civilian clothes.

If you look at her stance it is the worst possible stance anyone could take with a shotgun! The officer is leaning back, her weight is on her rear leg. Her shoulders are in a rifleman's stance, thrust back in an apparent effort to counterbalance the weight of the gun. I would bet that the recoil pad is not fully in contact with her shoulder pocket.

If she is shooting any kind of load in that gun she is going to get a bruise. She will probably become recoil shy and useless with a shotgun.

The proper stance would have her with the weight on her front leg, her nose over her left legs' toes. The shoulders should be slightly forward and rolled into the recoil pad with as much of the pad in contact with her shoulder pocket as possible.

The slight forward lean also will allow her to swivel from side to side as necessary. The position she is taking now effectively locks her hips and legs and does not allow movement laterally.

I hope PD's are not teaching this pose in shotgun training. No wonder my family members who are LEOs are always complaining about shooting the shotgun. they can't believe I shoot as much as 200 rounds a day through my O/U

An excellent book on the subject is "Game Shooting" by Robert Churchill, written quite a while ago but still worth reading.

I shoot occasionally with several very good Lady shooters in the Connecticut Travellers organization. I never see any of them in the position the female LEO is taking.

Comments?


Geoff Ross

[johnbt]

You're right. I missed it the first time through the magazine. OTOH, it does look like me shooting from this one old duck blind we sometimes use that was built by an idiot (sorry Jack). There just isn't a decent place to stand the way the partial roof was put on.

Seriously, I learned not to do it that way when I was reeeeeal little and just had to shoot my father's 20ga. Model 12. He caught the gun and I sat down.

Lean into it and don't lean back against a tree to steady yourself. I learned that the next year, but it was only a .410

John

[Dave McC]

Here's the deal, in a short diatribe....

First, back when I instructed for the agency, I often ended up teaching the shotgun while other instructors did the other weapons. The simple reason was they did not like to shoot the shotgun. I did.

Second,Erick's right on the stock thing. I have seen good work done by feathermerchants and pixies with the standard weapon,but not often. And bureaucratic inertia combined with stupidity nixed any possibility of getting shorter stocks. All procurement was done by big males who figured(if they bothered to think at all) that if they could shoot the standard stock, everyone could. Same group ordered the big Pachmyers for the issue revolvers and then kept commenting on how women couldn't shoot worth a damn.

Any suggestion that maybe shorter stocks, smaller grips and better training could improve performance was met with looks of stunned incomprehension or ignored. No one was willing to do something different, and maybe rock the boat.Even the suggestion that sanding off the toe of the pad might improve female officers' comfort and aid performance was met with the same obstinancy and negativism. The big words were "Vicarious Liability".

Moving on. Geoff,the thread I did a while back about proper mounting techniques was how I taught the shotgun then. The failure rates of my students was much lower than that of other instructors, to the point I was accused of falsifying the scores.Funny, when I suggested that a State Police Instructor re test those students,the matter was dropped.

Thank God I'm retired....

[gdeal]

Yeah I know. Wilson Combat has one photo where the guy is not wearing any gloves and he just has glasses on instead of goggles. It looks so stupid. At first it was Hmm... what's wrong with this picture. I emailed them and told them about it.

[DPris]

Huh?
Denis

[HSMITH]

Geoff, I agree with you. Even some 'experts' at the clubs here will try to put people in a riflemans stance shooting trap, though they themselves are pretty good they are flat wrong.


I shoot with a VERY square stance just like the handgun is employed in action pistol shooting, drives some of the old timers nuts but it really works the best for me. About 10 years ago I wanted to really improve my shotgunning and stance was one of the things I played with that made the biggest difference, it makes a HUGE difference in freedom of motion and stamina.

[OBIWAN]

I am also a fan of devoting at least some of your practice to "poor footing"

Put one foot up on a brick, ....makes shots to the side, etc.....

Because the real world does not always allow the perfect stance....the one you use all the time on the nice clean, flat floor of your range

[9mmMike]

The free range near French Creek State Park has you shooting on an embankment where, depending on who gets setup first, you are often shooting with your strong-side (right for me) foot on a slope. It's like you're falling backwards. This really promotes a bent left knee and forward crouch.
It's a wonder I do not shoot into the ground when I am on a level surface!