Curious about .22 r.f. AR rifles.

[jeager106]

I own 5 centerfire AR rifles, 3 are 5.56, one is a 6.8, one a .308.
They are as accurate out of the box as any good bolt gun, suitable for varmint & big game within the limits of the calibers.
I've kinda thought about an AR in .22 r.f. but haven't read any posts anywhere about the accuracy of the AR .22s.
"Only accurate rifles are interesting" is the phylosophy I follow.
I strive for a minimum 50 yard group of 1 inch or better from ALL my .22 r.f. rifles & I have several.
With .22 r.f. ammo the rifle prefers getting 1 inch 50 yard groups is definatley doable, my 10-22s do better than 1 inch even with Remington bulk Golden Bullets, I often achieve 0.5 inch with prefered ammo, not match ammo at that.
Do any of you AR .22 r.f. owners shoot the AR from a bench rest at 50 yards & test for accuracy?
If so what could I expect from an AR rifle in the way of accuracy?
Are they fun "blasting" rifles suitable for rolling tin cans?
That fun & fun is a good thing. I'm not such an accuracy snob that I won't have fun with a rifle.

[blfuller]

Buy yourself a dedicated AR15 upper in .22. CMMG and others make nice accurate uppers. All you would need to do is swap out your 5.56 upper and replace it with the dedicated .22 upper. It will probably do all you would like.

[Fishbed77]

I've kinda thought about an AR in .22 r.f. but haven't read any posts anywhere about the accuracy of the AR .22s.

I can state for a fact that my CMMG dedicated .22LR upper-equipped AR-15 is the most accurate out-of-the-box semi-auto .22LR rifle I've ever fired with bulk .22LR (mostly HV) ammo.

This means I've found it to be more accurate than the standard Ruger 10/22, Marlin 60, Thompson Center R55, Remington 552 Speedmaster, Mossberg Plinkster, or Winchester Model 77.

It's not as accurate as my heavily-modified Ruger 10/22 with fluted bull barrel, Volquartsen parts, etc. (which can shoot 5-round cloverleafs at 50 yards). But I wouldn't expect it to be.

[Ibmikey]

I have a DPMS AR in .22 LR that is a real hoot in the shooting arena. I use it mainly for a plinker at cans, rocks, old shotgun shells etc. My rifle has the standard GI Matech rear sight and gas block front so not set up for one hole target shooting but I have never felt at a loss to hit what I aimed at. A dedicated upper or rifle is the best way to enjoy rimfire shooting in an AR (well then there is the S&W 15-22 :-) ..........

[jeager106]

Who sells .22 r.f uppers?
I didn't even know uppers only were being mfg for sale.
How much $$ are they?
I'm supposing the .22 r.f. upper is complete with bolt, etc.
What about mags? Does one need a mag block or does the magazine
for the .22 r.f. ctg. function without modifications to the AR lower?

[9x19]

I had a Tactical Solutions upper on a Rock River lower... mags are made by both CMMG and Black Dog Machine... no mods needed to lower for mags to fit. I sold mine during the recent silliness because I also have a pair of S&W 15-22s... (their complete rifle costs less than most dedicated uppers)

I prefer the S&Ws lighter weight and they are still plenty accurate. S&W has their own mags, but both of mine have proven reliable.

(CMMG also sells complete rifles in .22LR)

TacSol / RR


S&Ws

[blfuller]

Who sells .22 r.f uppers?
I didn't even know uppers only were being mfg for sale.
How much $$ are they?
I'm supposing the .22 r.f. upper is complete with bolt, etc.
What about mags? Does one need a mag block or does the magazine
for the .22 r.f. ctg. function without modifications to the AR lower?

CMMG and Tactical Solutions are some of the manufacturers. Google is your friend, search for them. They would be a complete upper with everything you need. The most common types of mags are the ones that work with the Ceiner kits, specifically Black Dog and CMMG. No modifications are necessary to use these magazines with a standard lower.

Do some searching, you will find lots of information if you google it.

[Fishbed77]

Who sells .22 r.f uppers?

CMMG, Tactical Solutions, and Spikes are some of the more popular manufacturers.

I didn't even know uppers only were being mfg for sale.

They are.

How much $$ are they?

I paid $369 for my CMMG Sierra .22LR upper about two years ago. I believe the price has gone up a bit on them over the last few years.

I'm supposing the .22 r.f. upper is complete with bolt, etc.

Mine was complete. I believe most .22LR uppers come with bolts (as I think they are proprietary to most manufacturers, though I could be wrong).

What about mags?

Black Dog Machine and CMMG both make quality mags that will fit the CMMG/Tactical Solutions/Spikes uppers. I prefer the Black Dog Machine mags as they are easy to find, well-made, reliable, and inexpensive ($12-16 apiece).

Does one need a mag block or does the magazine
for the .22 r.f. ctg. function without modifications to the AR lower?

The Black Dog Machine and CMMG mags function without modification to a standard AR lower. If you want the bolt hold-open feature to work, you need to insert an optional bolt hold-open adapter between the upper and lower, and make sure the mags you use have bolt hold-open compatible followers.


Here is a photo of my CMMG Sierra .22LR upper on a PSA lower:

[Destructo6]

I had nothing but trouble with CMMG dedicated .22lr rifles. Poor reliability, poor accuracy, and questionable magazines. 4 of them, so I don't think it's an isolated exception.

[HKFan9]

Get the S&W and don't look back. The dedicated uppers can be picky, and cost about the same as having a dedicated gun anyways. A buddy I work with has a SW that probably has well over 20,000 rounds through it and it runs great. Operates just like a normal AR.

The Mossberg 715T is junk.

I used to have a Umarex MP5, it was nice, I ended up selling it for something else, but it worked and looked great.

The Sig .22 semi's are decent, their downfall seems to be magazines (buddy has one that is nothing but issues), and being slightly more ammo picky.

[BillyJack3]

There's a 15-22 in there with the FDE ladder rail covers. Great little .22. Accurate and very dependable. The S&W mags are arguably the best .22 mags on the market. I'm not a huge fan of the polymer quad rail but tacticool22 makes a conversion nut for that. It's definitely in the future plans.

[blfuller]

The Sig .22 semi's are decent, their downfall seems to be magazines (buddy has one that is nothing but issues), and being slightly more ammo picky.

The mags that the SIG 522's use are Black Dog magazines with the SIG logo on them. They are essentially the Ceiner type. If your friend is having troubles, try different mags or upgrade to the newer nylon or steel feed lip types by CMMG or Black Dog.

[Fishbed77]

I had nothing but trouble with CMMG dedicated .22lr rifles. Poor reliability, poor accuracy, and questionable magazines. 4 of them, so I don't think it's an isolated exception

I have to wonder if they have revised the design recently, or what you were doing to yours.

My CMMG is very accurate (note my comparisons above). The general consensus is that the CMMG .22LR uppers run well, and mine is no exception. I've put thousands of round through mine at this point, with no failures with the exception of a handful that could be attributed to bad bulk ammo (typical for rimfires). I have only used Black Dog Machine magazines, so I can not speak to the quality of the CMMG mags.

[BombthePeasants]

I bought a Model 1 Sales 20" A2 upper receiver so I would have a .22LR version to match my Competition style upper, and I think it's fantastic. My wife and I shot the crap out of it yesterday and I think it is my favorite gun to shoot; quiet enough that you don't need ear pro!

[9x19]

My Sig 522s also ran good on the Black Dog AR22 mags... I only let them go because I committed to the AR platform.

[Destructo6]

I have to wonder if they have revised the design recently, or what you were doing to yours.

Nothing crazy at all. We were comparing the factory CMMG vs the S&W Mp 15-22 for the purpose of consideration for training weapons. All in an indoor range.

Ammo was CCI MiniMag and Stinger, Federal AutoMatch, and some unknown bulk Winchester load. I believe there were a couple of others which I can't recall.

Failure rate was 4%-5% with the CMMGs, which doesn't sound too bad until you take into account that the failure rate with the S&W was .1%.

The CMMGs also couldn't group better than a 8.5"x11" zero target at 50yards. Lots of different people shot them with similar results.

Also, loading the CMMG magazines past 15 rounds proved difficult to the average shooter. By comparison, the S&W was comically easy.

It's too bad, though, because the CMMG better replicates the weight of the standard M4, whereas the S&W is toy-like light. Fortunately, during training, most users quickly forget about the weight difference.

[MrBorland]

Originally Posted by jeager106

"Only accurate rifles are interesting" is the phylosophy I follow.
I strive for a minimum 50 yard group of 1 inch or better from ALL my .22 r.f. rifles & I have several

Compass Lake makes excellent match grade uppers for High Power Service Rifle competition. I (yet) don't own one myself, but they also make a match grade .22LR upper that's highly regarded for it's accuracy. They'll cost you about twice what a CMMG upper will, though.

http://www.compasslake.com/index.php...index&cPath=22

[krunchnik]

My CMMG Sierra on a DPMS pre ban lower I built,standard CMMG LPK-with a Nikon P22 2X7-great shooting rig.I only own CMMG mags of which 2 of them are the 10 rounders.

This is after I upgraded the furniture

Photo of the target was at 25 yards,shoots pretty accurately

[arizona98tj]

I don't believe you'll see many 1" 50 yd groups from the S&W 15-22. Mine won't do it....and I've tried quite a variety of ammo including "target" rounds. Perhaps they've gotten better in the past few years? I have one of the earlier ones made.

[Fishbed77]

Failure rate was 4%-5% with the CMMGs, which doesn't sound too bad until you take into account that the failure rate with the S&W was .1%.

The CMMGs also couldn't group better than a 8.5"x11" zero target at 50yards. Lots of different people shot them with similar results.

As noted, this is the complete opposite of my experience with a CMMG upper (and that of most posted reviews).

1"-1.5" groups at 50 yards is the norm, not the exception. Any failures I've had (maybe 1 round out or 15-20 mags at worst) have been attributable to cheap bulk ammo (rounds that wouldn't fire after multiple firing pin strikes).

I have to wonder is you are talking about actual CMMG .22LR dedicated uppers or the CMMG drop-in bolt conversion unit used in a 5.56mm upper.

[Destructo6]

Neither a dedicated upper nor a drop in.

All are dedicated, factory made, CMMG .22lr rifles.

[Ibmikey]

As previously indicated I have a DPMS dedicated rimfire rifle, everyone talks of their failure rates however my rifle, and my 15-22 also, do not have difficulties with feed, eject or FTF and never have. Occasionally a round is no good and cleared with immediate action but I attribute that to the 40-50 year old ammo I am sending down range. Like my many AR's the rimfire rifles have shown they are well made and reliable and anxious to help digest the many thousands of rimfire on my shelves.
Although similar and equally fun to shoot both of these rifles are unique and different enough shooters to throughly enjoy both.