|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
June 6, 2012, 07:13 PM | #51 | |
Junior member
Join Date: June 23, 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 2,149
|
Give it a rest, Amsdorf. Even Stevie Ray's quote implies that point and shoot is fine for HD if you can use the techique and he will if he can master it with his cross-domonance.
Quote:
|
|
June 6, 2012, 07:28 PM | #52 | |
Junior member
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
|
Quote:
I see it all the time in some of these supposed "training" videos where everyone is scrunched up on the stock like it was a M4 and their stance to firing is the same as someone firing a rifle, NOT someone who knows how to fire a shotgun - we see that especially all the time at the club - someone standing perpendicular to the target line like they would if holding a rifle for hi-power shooting poor training and poor practice equals poor habits and poor results |
|
June 6, 2012, 10:02 PM | #53 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 22, 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 943
|
First time I shot clays at the club I was told to stop looking like I was using a rifle.
__________________
"I would say that we have to make up criteria." OK, which is better for 2 Bantu, 5 Hottentots, and 3 pygmies playing a war march on a calliope at 3 a.m. during a monsoon? Show your work and round to the nearest decimal. -Mike Irwin |
June 7, 2012, 06:51 AM | #54 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 16, 2011
Location: norwich ct
Posts: 737
|
The Mossberg 590s issued to us had peep sight rear, blade sight front. As instructed, we only used them to aim past 15 yds with slugs.
__________________
"The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps"-LtGen. Holland M "Howlin' Mad" Smith, USMC,1949 Have you forgotten yet? Look down and swear by the slain of the War that you'll NEVER forget. [Siegfried Sassoon,"Aftermath,"1919] |
June 7, 2012, 02:50 PM | #55 |
Staff In Memoriam
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,811
|
Thanks, Stevie Ray. Be advised I'm cross dominant. It took some time and effort, but I worked through it.
For newer shooters, I advise shooting from the side your dominant eye, not hand, is on. I'm starting a new thread on pointing vs aiming..... |
June 8, 2012, 04:08 AM | #56 |
Junior member
Join Date: July 24, 2011
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri
Posts: 849
|
Just a note...
Shooting a shotgun in a home defense situation with 00 Buck is not the same as shooting clay birds with bird shot. You should, whenever possible, use the sights on your defensive/tactical shotgun, that's why they are there, not simply/only for using to shoot slugs. |
June 8, 2012, 07:11 AM | #57 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 16, 2011
Location: norwich ct
Posts: 737
|
Quote:
__________________
"The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps"-LtGen. Holland M "Howlin' Mad" Smith, USMC,1949 Have you forgotten yet? Look down and swear by the slain of the War that you'll NEVER forget. [Siegfried Sassoon,"Aftermath,"1919] |
|
June 8, 2012, 07:32 AM | #58 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: August 10, 2004
Location: Plain Ol', TX
Posts: 713
|
Quote:
I've shot a lot of shells downrange in clay games, 'poke shooting' at critters in the field, and in range training for HD scenarios. In all of that, I'm not sure that I ever really felt that one required a markedly different behavior than the other. In fact, my opinion has traditionally been that field work is MORE useful for skill building than just about anything else. I'm curious as to your experiences and how they differ between clays, bird, and HD training. Quote:
I actually use the RS barrels to verify proper mount and alignment when shouldering the shotgun more than I actually use them to good use in the field.
__________________
-A conclusion is not a destination, it's simply a convenient place to stop thinking.- -Reading a thing doesn't automatically make it so; repeating it doesn't necessarily make it any truer.- -Every Texan should be a member of the Texas State Rifle Association. |
||
June 8, 2012, 01:13 PM | #59 |
Junior member
Join Date: July 24, 2011
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri
Posts: 849
|
Differences between home defense with 00Buck and shooting at clay:
Those are a few of the differences. |
June 8, 2012, 04:05 PM | #60 |
Junior member
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
|
Those have nothing to do with pointing versus aiming - if the BG is moving quickly through your house, then pointing will be the way to get your gun on target
|
June 8, 2012, 05:40 PM | #61 | |
Member
Join Date: February 24, 2012
Posts: 71
|
Quote:
|
|
June 8, 2012, 07:24 PM | #62 |
Junior member
Join Date: June 23, 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 2,149
|
Amsdorf,
You are quick to make definitive statemets about the effects of stress in Home Defense versus Shooting Clays. Have you ever fired a weapon in an actual close quarters home defense/urban combat situation? What is your essential experience with the stress of clay shooting? |
June 8, 2012, 08:48 PM | #63 |
Junior member
Join Date: July 24, 2011
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri
Posts: 849
|
"The stress of clay shooting."
|
June 8, 2012, 09:00 PM | #64 |
Junior member
Join Date: June 23, 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 2,149
|
Amsdorf,
I see you sidestepped my question about whether you had actual close quarters combat or home defense experience. I assume that means you have none. You also sidestepped the question about slay shooting stress. While it is of another type, I beleive an experience clay shooter would know the stress of sitting on a perfect score while trying to focus on each shot one at a time. So now it seems that you don't know experience withclays or urban armed combat. You type well. Troll on. . . . |
June 8, 2012, 09:18 PM | #65 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 23, 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,442
|
Quote:
The last time you were in a major competition where you were 99-straight in a 100-target event, and that final target meant the difference between champ and chump, weren't you a little stressed? Most folks are. |
|
June 8, 2012, 09:59 PM | #66 |
Staff In Memoriam
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,811
|
And so this thread goes failing and falling into The Abyss of Closedness.
Sheesh!!! |
June 8, 2012, 10:19 PM | #67 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 17, 2007
Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO
Posts: 5,970
|
Well before it gets closed...let me slide in here and say the only time I aim my shotgun is when shooting slugs at deer. Shooting shot, it's point shooting...including many types of small game hunting and running combat course's done mostly in the past.
If this threads done nothing else, it's reminded me how fun running the course's used to be. Time for a refresher course. |
June 8, 2012, 10:55 PM | #68 |
Member
Join Date: June 20, 2011
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 37
|
Aim at Clay Targets
If you're on the skeet, trap or SC range and you look at your front sight you're going to miss because you just stopped your swing. I've watched new shooter's barrels stop, go, stop go, because they take their eyes off the target. Stop your swing and you miss.
As far as home invasion, that's a whole different thing, comparing apples to oranges IMO. I've never had to do it, but I have shot a couple slugs at a target once and I had plenty of time to get my head on the gun, look at the front bead and then focused on the target and hit it dead center. That was in a college CJ class and the target was at 25m. I deer hunt with a rifle and don't turkey hunt so I wont express an opinion on aiming vs pointing there. |
June 9, 2012, 12:15 AM | #69 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: The shores of Lake Huron
Posts: 4,783
|
Quote:
__________________
Stevie-Ray Join the NRA/ILA I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed. |
|
June 9, 2012, 03:47 AM | #70 |
Junior member
Join Date: June 23, 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 2,149
|
If it helps I apologize for implying that Amdorf is a troll and will try to play nice.
|
June 9, 2012, 06:29 AM | #71 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 16, 2011
Location: norwich ct
Posts: 737
|
Quote:
__________________
"The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps"-LtGen. Holland M "Howlin' Mad" Smith, USMC,1949 Have you forgotten yet? Look down and swear by the slain of the War that you'll NEVER forget. [Siegfried Sassoon,"Aftermath,"1919] |
|
June 9, 2012, 10:26 AM | #72 |
Junior member
Join Date: July 24, 2011
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri
Posts: 849
|
In spite of the, let us say, sometime churlish nature of some of our comments, I do think it has been a healthy debate.
I do not think we can hope to convince clay shooters that home defense with 00 Buck is comparable, and I do not think they can convince us that it is. I've shot a lot of sporting clays, with a lot of really great shotguns, but I do not regard this to be the same as putting 00 Buck on target in a home defense scenario. My defense shotgun has a ghost ring and front post, and in the video, it is this sighting system I was using to get the buckshot to stay on paper, in fact, stay in a 6" circle at 25 feet. In a defense situation, that's the kind of MOBG* I want on the target. And regardless of what we think we can, or can't do, or aim or point or shoot the shotgun hanging upside down while spitting nickels, I think we all agree that putting the 00 Buck on the bad guy, and only the bad guy, is what we want. * = Minute of Bad Guy. |
June 9, 2012, 12:20 PM | #73 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 23, 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,442
|
This video has bothered me from the beginning. Yes, it shows the firepower of a shotgun. But, it never address aiming vs pointing nor not aiming at all. The shooter claims he's aiming every shot; but, if it were a true test there would also be someone else who was pointing a shotgun, and we could compare the results.
It's not even a good video to give us an idea of pattern spread with respect distance because all of the distances referenced are approximate. And we don't have a clue about how well the shooter estimates distances. Nor is it an example of how different chokes might change pattern sizes. I think my basic problem is the tread's claim to be "mythbusting" -- for me this didn't even come close to happening. I think I have a different idea about the myth than the OP does. He claims the myth is something like: "Get a shotgun, you don't even have to aim." My take on the myth is: "If your not an experienced shooter, your chances are better with a shotgun than a rifle or handgun." Who in their right mind would believe a shotgun will magically hit its target? Of course, you have to aim/point at the target. I was curious, why the provocative, and possibly misleading title? I did notice, before I could watch the video, I had to sit through a commercial, and where there's internet ads, there's money involved. Then, I looked at the OP's TFL posting history, and it's almost exclusively in the nature of, "Look at the video I just posted." Are we the victims of subtle spam? |
June 9, 2012, 01:17 PM | #74 |
Junior member
Join Date: July 24, 2011
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri
Posts: 849
|
Well, thanks for watching, Zippy.
|
June 9, 2012, 01:24 PM | #75 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 23, 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,442
|
More than once
|
|
|