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March 10, 2010, 03:33 PM | #1 |
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"modern" black powder conversion cartridge gun...
I reciently ran across this "replica" gun that had a black powder cartridge conversion cylinder & loading gate added, as well as other mods to make it safe to shoot modern smokeless cartridges... I've seen these "kits" sold before...
Anyone know what the BATF's stance is on owning & or reselling such guns, that... er... aren't or weren't technically "guns" before the conversion ??? the particular gun I've seen is a pocket 31 caliber Colt replica converted to 32 S&W, but I've seen them for ( I think ) 44 Remington to 44-40, maybe even for the 45's ???
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March 10, 2010, 03:46 PM | #2 |
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AFAIK the "Loading gate" modification to the frame is where the BATFE draws the line between a C&B "antique" and a "Modern revolver".
Local & state laws may differ sharply though & will vary depending on geography. |
March 10, 2010, 03:52 PM | #3 |
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these "kits" don't modify the frame, they incorporate a shorter cylinder, & a loading gate firing pin assembly in the form of a "disk" that sits behind the new cylinder, but in the space where the nipples were on the old cylinder...
Looks like this... http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=711510
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March 10, 2010, 04:01 PM | #4 |
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This style converts those 44 Remingtons to ( I guess 45 Colt ) it doesn't use a loading gate & requires the cylinder to be removed for reloading...
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=292272 the one I'm looking at is like the 1st one linked, with the built in loading gate... curious how the BATF looks at these ???
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March 10, 2010, 06:14 PM | #5 |
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If it requires modifying the frame, it is considered "manufacturing a firearm", even if all you do is grind a clearance groove in the frame. If it is a drop-in cylinder, its status is null, not even on the radar.
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March 10, 2010, 06:17 PM | #6 | ||
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Quote:
You can indeed insert the conversion in an unmodified frame, you just can't load the cylinder without removing it. (even with the gate installed, but not with the frame modified) Quote:
As the other poster remarks it's the process of filing the frame that is the legal dividing line between gun & non-gun. |
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March 11, 2010, 08:15 AM | #7 |
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The cost of that cylinder certainly dampened my enthusiasm for the concept. But low volume insures that the price is not likely to drop.
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March 11, 2010, 09:26 AM | #8 |
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Most of the conversion cylinders are limited to black powder or cowboy loads. There are problems with bullet and barrel groove fit.
A cap and ball revolver with a conversion cylinder installed is a firearm, removed it is a cap and ball and not a firearm. Modifying the frame for a loading gate is a gray area, if the modification allows you to retrain the use of the cap and ball cylinder your able to go back to a non-firearm. If the mod does not allow the cap and ball cylinder to be used it's now a firearm. At least that's what I was told verbally by a local batf agent. If you want a open top conversion for smokeless loads get one of the purpose built revolvers. They have a forged frame and the correct barrel groove diameter. |
March 11, 2010, 11:13 AM | #9 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
So in addition to everything else these will NOT "make it safe to shoot modern smokeless cartridges." The purpose of these is for partly historical accuracy for those interested in a particular time frame when these were in use, & partly for faster BP reloads for BP competition such as SASS where more than 6 shots are needed. I'm sure a "creative individual" could do the raft of things needed to do to re-engineer a BP revolver into a modern cartridge pistol, but it would be massively time intensive & almost certainly illegal. |
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March 11, 2010, 02:34 PM | #10 |
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agree about the power levels of the big bores, but the 32 S&W ( short ) is pretty enemic even in factory form... which BTW... the guns I have been "shooting" in this caliber have been middle quality top break revolvers I've been loading with light loads with Trailboss & round balls, so just for diversity, I've been thinking about the one I saw, that's chambered in 32 S&W...
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