Problems sizing HXP once fired 30-06. - Page 2

WallyM3 · February 12, 2013, 12:31 PM

I've never held with the notion that the expander button "pulls" and stretches the case on being withdrawn on the return stroke, though I've not thought about it actually shortening it. Sizing seems to produce elongation in proportion with the extent to which the case diameter has been increased in the chamber compared with the dimensions of the sizing die itself.

I've been working three thousand cases with head stamps (virtually all HXP) from the early '60s to the late '70s. All have been fired once (three point crimped primers still in place) most probably in the Hellenic Army's M1919 Browning machine guns. Having sized a few hundred thus far, I can safely say that at least one of those guns has an enormous chamber.

Unclenick: our postings passed each other in the 'net. I've encountered no trouble in priming these cases without making any attempt at removing the crimp. I like when things like that happen.

I've had, mebbe, 6 more stuck cases, all of which I've removed in about three minutes. The RCBS lube appears to reduce the friction of sizing marginally better than the wax, but I've experienced sticks with both. I think they're more likely when I haven't done a complete lube job.

Both of the sizing dies I've been using are standard SAAMI spec., or at least there's no indication of their being SB.

The occurrence of stuck cases is diminishing as the number of cases sized accumulates. This is probably the result of the inside of the die being burnished by repeated sizing cycles.

I've ordered or scrounged some of the different lubes that folks have mentioned and will be giving them a test drive shortly.

Unclenick: it looks like our posts "passed each other in the mail". I'm finding that I have no difficulty inserting primers without making any attempt at removing/altering the crimp. I like that in a case.

F. Guffey · February 12, 2013, 02:13 PM

My favorite case, the case that has been fired in a trashy old chamber.

“All have been fired once (three point crimped primers still in place) most probably in the Hellenic Army's M1919 Browning machine guns” Again. I measure the length of the case from the head of the case to the shoulder/datum first, if the cases I am sizing have been fired in a trashy old chamber I want to know, BECAUSE, I off set the length of my chambers with long cases with added length between the head of the case and shoulder, nothing magic about sizing a case to length, moving the shoulder forward is the most time consuming, fire formers are required to chamber a round and pull the trigger AT THE FIRING RANGE, I find cases with the shoulder blown forward, not a specialty, I size machine gun fired brass, I am a case former, I have forming dies, forming dies are used to form cases from a parent case to smaller cases. 30/06 to 308 W for example, then there should be a question as in ‘Why did the manufacturers make a 30/06 forming die”? the 30/06 is the parent case, it works when sizing machine gun fired cases and cases that have an abundance of resistance to sizing. The forming die doubles as a trim die also.

R-P made cylinder brass, a 35 Whelen/30/06 type case with straight wall and 2.650 long, I have no clue how a reloader could fail when sizing cases to fit the chamber from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber.

http://www.z-hat.com/Cylinder.htm

Cylinder brass:to late for me, I will never get around to using up all my brass, before the cylinder brass was available I use 280 Remington cases, forming the 280 to 30/06 required erasing part of the shoulder and forming the new shoulder out of the case body, the shoulder of the 280 Remington is ahead of the 30/06 by .051”, again I have no clue how a reloader could/can miss when fitting a case to the chamber.

F. Guffey

WallyM3 · February 12, 2013, 02:32 PM

I've been fortunate in this case (pardon the pun) that the fired cases seem all to need both "bumping back"and TTL to fit a Wilson gage properly (these will be fired in a Garand). I think the barrel of a 1919 still has pressure as the cases begin to extract. In fact, I need to turn defects off the rims for the cases to drop in of their own weight. I'm planning on reaming the Garand chamber to +0.002" or so.

One minor anecdote about cylinder brass. Based on the research available to me (late '70s or so), I attempted to form .45-75 Win. from Bell's Sharps basic brass. I split at least two form/trim dies before RCBS told me to blow-out and shorten .348 Win. I felt a little silly about that.

BTW, I made a die holder (the die acted as the fire forming chamber) that had a rudimentary "bolt" and firing pin, loaded some fast powder and sealed it with some kind of fluffy stuff (I think it might have been Cream of Wheat).

February 12, 2013, 12:31 PM	#26
WallyM3 Member Join Date: October 23, 2012 Posts: 18	I've never held with the notion that the expander button "pulls" and stretches the case on being withdrawn on the return stroke, though I've not thought about it actually shortening it. Sizing seems to produce elongation in proportion with the extent to which the case diameter has been increased in the chamber compared with the dimensions of the sizing die itself. I've been working three thousand cases with head stamps (virtually all HXP) from the early '60s to the late '70s. All have been fired once (three point crimped primers still in place) most probably in the Hellenic Army's M1919 Browning machine guns. Having sized a few hundred thus far, I can safely say that at least one of those guns has an enormous chamber. Unclenick: our postings passed each other in the 'net. I've encountered no trouble in priming these cases without making any attempt at removing the crimp. I like when things like that happen. I've had, mebbe, 6 more stuck cases, all of which I've removed in about three minutes. The RCBS lube appears to reduce the friction of sizing marginally better than the wax, but I've experienced sticks with both. I think they're more likely when I haven't done a complete lube job. Both of the sizing dies I've been using are standard SAAMI spec., or at least there's no indication of their being SB. The occurrence of stuck cases is diminishing as the number of cases sized accumulates. This is probably the result of the inside of the die being burnished by repeated sizing cycles. I've ordered or scrounged some of the different lubes that folks have mentioned and will be giving them a test drive shortly. Unclenick: it looks like our posts "passed each other in the mail". I'm finding that I have no difficulty inserting primers without making any attempt at removing/altering the crimp. I like that in a case. Last edited by WallyM3; February 12, 2013 at 12:38 PM.

February 12, 2013, 02:13 PM	#27
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	My favorite case, the case that has been fired in a trashy old chamber. “All have been fired once (three point crimped primers still in place) most probably in the Hellenic Army's M1919 Browning machine guns” Again. I measure the length of the case from the head of the case to the shoulder/datum first, if the cases I am sizing have been fired in a trashy old chamber I want to know, BECAUSE, I off set the length of my chambers with long cases with added length between the head of the case and shoulder, nothing magic about sizing a case to length, moving the shoulder forward is the most time consuming, fire formers are required to chamber a round and pull the trigger AT THE FIRING RANGE, I find cases with the shoulder blown forward, not a specialty, I size machine gun fired brass, I am a case former, I have forming dies, forming dies are used to form cases from a parent case to smaller cases. 30/06 to 308 W for example, then there should be a question as in ‘Why did the manufacturers make a 30/06 forming die”? the 30/06 is the parent case, it works when sizing machine gun fired cases and cases that have an abundance of resistance to sizing. The forming die doubles as a trim die also. R-P made cylinder brass, a 35 Whelen/30/06 type case with straight wall and 2.650 long, I have no clue how a reloader could fail when sizing cases to fit the chamber from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber. http://www.z-hat.com/Cylinder.htm Cylinder brass:to late for me, I will never get around to using up all my brass, before the cylinder brass was available I use 280 Remington cases, forming the 280 to 30/06 required erasing part of the shoulder and forming the new shoulder out of the case body, the shoulder of the 280 Remington is ahead of the 30/06 by .051”, again I have no clue how a reloader could/can miss when fitting a case to the chamber. F. Guffey

February 12, 2013, 02:32 PM	#28
WallyM3 Member Join Date: October 23, 2012 Posts: 18	I've been fortunate in this case (pardon the pun) that the fired cases seem all to need both "bumping back"and TTL to fit a Wilson gage properly (these will be fired in a Garand). I think the barrel of a 1919 still has pressure as the cases begin to extract. In fact, I need to turn defects off the rims for the cases to drop in of their own weight. I'm planning on reaming the Garand chamber to +0.002" or so. One minor anecdote about cylinder brass. Based on the research available to me (late '70s or so), I attempted to form .45-75 Win. from Bell's Sharps basic brass. I split at least two form/trim dies before RCBS told me to blow-out and shorten .348 Win. I felt a little silly about that. BTW, I made a die holder (the die acted as the fire forming chamber) that had a rudimentary "bolt" and firing pin, loaded some fast powder and sealed it with some kind of fluffy stuff (I think it might have been Cream of Wheat).