Kids and playdates

[Koda94]

A while back a parent asked me if I had guns and I replied I keep them all locked up in a safe. All is good.

1) How many here ask other parents if they own guns and if they keep them locked up?
2) If the answer is they do not keep them locked up, how do you handle that do you still let your children go over?

[jimbob86]

For one of my kids' playdates, we went shooting!

[shortwave]

When the kids were home and they wanted to go to someone's house, their mother or I met/talked with parents first. If things didn't feel right, the kids didn't go. Had nothing to do with guns.

My one son went to a B-Day party at about 11-12yrs old and the kids shot .22's. I not only let my son go but assisted the dad of the B-Day boy with the shoot.

[LockedBreech]

I don't lock up any of my guns, for a number of reasons.

1.) I am a very poor college student and this is a small, temporary studio apartment.

2.) No one ever comes to my house (see small studio apartment). Sometimes girls do, but I'm right there when they are and the guns are hidden enough (drawers, etc.) to not be seen on a casual glance.

3.) I have no children and none of my friends with children have ever been to my house.

As soon as I'm in a more permanent arrangement it is a high priority for me to keep most of my guns in safes. Even then, I'll always have one loaded and relatively easy to access with a quick-access safe or something. A houseful of unloaded guns is useless for defense without one that can be on deck shortly.

Right now, purely by accident, I live sort of like a creeper, with loaded pistols and rifles all over the place.

A good friend of mine has two young children and I helped him pick out his first pistol. We got him a stainless Ruger SR9, which I like. It is reliable and shoots well. Not my cup of tea with all the safety stuff but he has kids so it's right up his alley. He keeps it in a Gunsafe, with a loaded magazine of Ranger-Ts, but nothing in the chamber and the safety on.

[born2climb]

I NEVER unload my guns. (What good is an EMPTY gun?) I have some in the safe, some out of the safe. I taught my kids to LEAVE THEM ALONE. I'd come nearer forbidding my kids to go to a home where they were all locked up, etc. Sounds like a home where I would not be welcome...

[Sierra280]

I don't have any children. I have guns and ammo sitting all over the place in my man cave. I installed a locking (with a key from hallway side) door knob on the man cave door. Whenever our friends with kids come over I just lock the door. My buddy Steve always calls to let me know he's bringing his boy, so everything is already locked up.

On a side note, all school shootings, and more importantly, accidental shootings of children by children, have happened because kids got the guns AT HOME. Instead of talking about more gun regulation, we should be talking about criminal charges for the parents who didn't have the guns locked up. If a couple of parents went to jail, there would be no more kids getting their parents guns.

[born2climb]

So we're back to blaming anyone BUT the one who did the wrong....

If my neighbor leaves the key in his truck, I'm at liberty to take it for a spin, and it cannot be construed as theft? After all, he SHOULD have locked it and removed the key... Our society has passed the buck so often we have lost our ability to judge anything objectively anymore. Punk takes his dad's gun to school and commits a crime...it's his dad's fault. No wonder we have such a high rate of incarceration.

[Sierra280]

I wasn't trying to change the subject, just making a point as to why guns should be locked up around kids.

After all, you have to be 21 here in NV to buy a handgun, just like alcohol. If you, purposefully or not, have kids come to your house and get tanked off booze you bought, then hurt themselves or someone else, guess who's in trouble? Why should it be any different for guns??

And I don't know of a case where the parents have actually been held responsible (or incarcerated) for a child-child shooting.

Here's some food for thought:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us...dden-toll.html

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/201...he_number.html

EVERY SINGLE ONE of these deaths would not have happened if the guns were locked up.

[Koda94]

So.... to clarify my original post and questions, the questions did not have anything to do with how we should or should not store our guns. My OP was not about debating that topic, and I don't want to here.... I did not ask how anyone here stores their guns.

My original questions are directed to all parents, gun owners or not. I will re-post them here so we don't have to scroll back up...

1) How many here ask other parents if they own guns and if they keep them locked up?
2) If the answer is they do not keep them locked up, how do you handle that do you still let your children go over?

To elaborate on my own questions my children are getting old enough and gaining new friends fast enough and when I grew up I don't remember if my parents were ever asked about guns. So the thought came to me how do gun owners feel about their children going over to their friends house for playdates and sleepovers if they knew the other family had guns...

[born2climb]

In EVERY case of shootings where the kids got the firearm from home, the parents' failure began FAR from how they did or didn't secure their firearm(s). How did America survive the frontier days if firearm storage is so detrimental? People used to PARENT their kids, not throw them to the dogs. My kids were taught not to mess with firearms, alcohol, drugs, lascivious behavior, etc, and we have had NO shootings, NO drug problems, NO teenage pregnancies, etc. I agree as far as parental responsibility, but I don't think anyone is going to slap a lock on a firearm and magically become a responsible parent.

[Sierra280]

Back to the OP. DO NOT let your kids go to a house where the parents have guns accessible to children! The cases are clear and prevalent, why take the chance.

[born2climb]

Great advice...especially if you have not done an adequate job of teaching your children. As I said, it's a wonder America survived its own history. But then stupidity was not the prevailing wind back then.

[Nathan]

I NEVER unload my guns. (What good is an EMPTY gun?) I have some in the safe, some out of the safe. I taught my kids to LEAVE THEM ALONE. I'd come nearer forbidding my kids to go to a home where they were all locked up, etc. Sounds like a home where I would not be welcome...

Good luck with that. You'll need it. I was the gun proofed kid.

Then, at some point with friends, I decided to look through and handle all of dad's guns. I knew how to handle them and handled them well. I also had control of the friend involved. Had I lost control of my friend, there were lots of guns and live ammo at our disposal. I feel lucky. ...or maybe God helped me through this challenge.

Another probable ending would have had said friend loading a gun and shooting something.....

So, I ask, "Are you feeling lucky?"

I do gun proof my kids, but I also keep all guns under lock and key. Some are loaded and ready for instant access. If my kids want to look, feel, touch....all they have to do is ask.

[born2climb]

Let me be a bit more specific, lest it sound like I leave loaded guns lying around...

I keep a loaded mag in the pistol, but no round in the chamber. I keep a .22 magnum above the front door for varmints. It is loaded, one in the chamber, hammer lowered. To be fired, the bolt must be rotated up and then down again to render it cocked. I like the peace of mind a gun safe yields, but I resent people acting like a kid committing a crime with a gun they "stole" from home or elsewhere is the fault of the gun's owner.

[jimbob86]

On a side note, all school shootings, and more importantly, accidental shootings of children by children, have happened because kids got the guns AT HOME. Instead of talking about more gun regulation, we should be talking about criminal charges for the parents who didn't have the guns locked up. If a couple of parents went to jail, there would be no more kids getting their parents guns.

NO.

Being a bad parent is it's own reward.


If you don't know the kids (and parents of those kids) that your kids hang out with .... you are letting your kids tap-dance in a minefield.

You must know them. Invite them to BBQ. Go to your kids activities (and if your kid is not involved in anything, then I'm wondering what your kid is doing with his/her time, and my kid will likely not be allowed to set foot in your house, or go anywhere with your kid), watch the kids on their teams/organizations ......

My kids all take gun safety and are strong enough to chew their friends B-hinds for a 4-Rules violation, or for fooling with stuff that does not belong to them,..... or alcohol use (yes, I've gotten that call: "So-n-so brought beer to the bonfire, Come and Get Me!"), or any other stupid crap they might pull .... I have Great Kids. ...and they understand that if they screw up, it is no one's fault but their own. They also understand that other people will screw up, and it can affect them..... and they have to deal with this ...... either influence the other kids to fix the situation, or LEAVE.

[Koda94]

Originally Posted by jimbob86

If you don't know the kids (and parents of those kids) that your kids hang out with .... you are letting your kids tap-dance in a minefield.

^^^THIS is one answer I was hoping for thank you.

as for a thread drift, if Jimbob's entire post sinks in to all I'd say that's a good thing. There is a huge detachment these days between parents and their children and their children's friends that I pray can be fixed. Jimbos post nailed it.

I'm not advocating leaving your guns unsecured but making the parents responsible would only further the Anti's cause and not provide any solutions.

[colbad]

I have been carrying a gun every day since before the kids were born. They have seen me strap on a gun and go to work their entire lives and it is nothing new or even interesting for them (except when I tell my daughter her dates meet parents before going out ).

I decided when they were still very young that I can try to keep them safe by locking everything up and hope they never come across a gun, or I can de-sensatize them. I taught my son and daughter early to properly handle and respect firearms. There is no great mystery or attraction for them and they know from our many shooting sessions how dangerous firearms can be. At an early age they learned that the gun is a dangerous tool just like the skill saw or hatchet. Teaching them to properly handle a firearm has given me more comfort of mind than hoping they never encounter a FA or relying on someone else to be responsible with their FAs. Personally I worry more about them in a motor vehicle than fooling with someone's gun now that they are teenagers.

My recommendation is to be responsible with your firearms but take away the attraction and mystery by teaching them how to handle properly just as we do when we give them the car keys. My two cents.

[Sierra280]

Jimbob, and others who have responded, it sounds like you are doing an excellent job with your kids, making them decent responsible people (ie, good parenting). Why? Because you seem to understand that you are responsible for your children, the way they act, behave, and what decisions they make, and how they affect society.

Yet, when a child gets a parents gun and something bad happens, suddenly the parents are not responsible? I don't understand the logic (or maybe there is none). Holding the appropriate party responsible does not make you an 'Anti'. For the record, neither am I.

If you disagree, you're saying parents aren't responsible for their children's actions; your actions show you don't believe that.

[Nathan]

Back to the OP....

I generally ask my kids. Like I said, my kids are fairly well gun proofed.

I try to judge things by their answers. If I needed to, I would talk to the parents, but so far, no need.

It is hard to just walk up to every parent and say, hey, do you have guns laying around, but usually I start a I like guns, do you conversation. From that, I get to know their habits a bit. It is amazing how many guns are stored in the closet loaded, just in case, so the odds are not good that kids do not have access to loaded guns. Sometimes I help them piece their ridiculous story together. "So, you have a 12 ga, with a 30" tube, loaded with Walmart #8's, n o training, no light, you never practice, you never take it out when you search you house for "bumps", but should someone be in there, you will go get it and shoot them....oh yea and drag them inside." Good plan! I would suggest you unload your shotgun now, run a lock through the action and sign up for a basic NRA class which will get you prepared to make a better plan.

[jimbob86]

Sierra, nobody is responsible for anyone"s actions but their own. A Parent is responsible for teaching their kids this, and for keeping their kids and others safe from irresponsible actions of their kids .... little kids ARE irresponsible .... completely as infants and less and less so as they grow up...... the problem, as I see it, is this: so many people these days mature physically sooner and sooner ..... yet on an emotional and intellectual level, later and later- much of the "bad behavior" we have is principally caused by physically, financially and socially empowered children of whatever age ..... giant two-year-olds running amuck, with nearly unlimited resources (in the short term), outrageously inflated senses of self-worth and the idea that they have a "right" to everything, and a responsibility for nothing .....

One of the greatest tools in Parenting is the Maxim that "Rights = Responsibilities".

This has been largely forgotten, I think ....

[Koda94]

Originally Posted by Sierra280

Yet, when a child gets a parents gun and something bad happens, suddenly the parents are not responsible? I don't understand the logic (or maybe there is none). Holding the appropriate party responsible does not make you an 'Anti'. For the record, neither am I.

If you disagree, you're saying parents aren't responsible for their children's actions; your actions show you don't believe that.

My apologies for suggesting you were an "anti". I do disagree that parents are to be responsible, its their job to teach but there is no guarantee the children will learn. Putting the blame on the parents does not teach children accountability.

Originally Posted by Nathan

It is hard to just walk up to every parent and say, hey, do you have guns laying around....

This is one reason I started this thread. I've never asked and the thought of asking didnt come tactfully easy if the family didnt lock up their guns. But its important to know until you get to know that family well. My wife and I have become good friends with all the parents of our children but we moved over the summer to a new school district and so its like starting over. I have a hard time starting "I like guns, do you?" conversation because while Oregon is generally a pro gun state Portland is inundated with gun haters and I am just used to keeping my guns in the closet (pun intended...).

[Rj1972]

I've never asked other parents whether or not they had guns or locked them up. I DID have one parent ask me one time when a bunch of kids were staying for a sleepover birthday party at my house.

At first I was a bit taken aback, as I think of gun ownership as a more private thing. Regardless I explained that all guns in the house are locked securely in a safe that only my wife and I know the combination.

Later I got to thinking about it and realized that the parent I was just speaking to was being every bit as responsible by asking as I was by locking them up.

IF I asked (which I never have), and they said something like "no, we don't lock them up. we teach our kids not to mess with guns", then I probably wouldn't let my kid go over. You can feel confident that your own kids won't touch someone else's guns due to your training, and MAYBE you can feel confident that some other parent has taught their kids not to play with guns, but there's no way I'm going to feel confident that EVERY OTHER KID that might come over has been taught the same.


I look at it this way. As gun owners (and often daily gun carriers), we OFTEN say "I wear a gun every day, because of I MAY need it (just in case, worse case scenario)". We often use the argument that everyone else should too (just in case, worst case scenario). I'm fairly sure I don't want my kid going somewhere that the only thing between my kid and a worst case scenario (dead child) is that everyone in the room has both been trained well by their parents not to play with guns AND has the right mindset at that minute to mind that training. That just in case scenario seems a heck of a lot more likely (TO ME) to happen than needing a firearm while out and about running errands.

[jimbob86]

we teach our kids not to mess with guns",

It is far better to teach them not to mess with anything that does not belong to them. At our house, the principle is taught when they are still very small, as "If it is not yours, DON'T FOOL WITH IT."

This applies to anything. It it the foundation of property rights.

You can feel confident that your own kids won't touch someone else's guns due to your training, and MAYBE you can feel confident that some other parent has taught their kids not to play with guns, but there's no way I'm going to feel confident that EVERY OTHER KID that might come over has been taught the same.

I assume that other kids are in fact kids, and irresponsible until proven otherwise - and irresponsible kids don't get to come over unsupervised. Some of my own kids don't get to stay in our own house, unsupervised...... they have not proven to be that responsible yet.

[dakota.potts]

When I was 12, I was at my grandparent's house. I used to play with the neighbor boy when I would stay over there. I didn't know him real well, but we had hung out. He invited me up to his room to show me something cool and pulled a 12 gauge single shot out from under his bed. He didn't point it directly at me, but he was not at all muzzle aware and I'm pretty sure he swept me several times. I asked him if he kept it loaded and he said he did, just in case. So I made an excuse to go back next door and tell my grandparents.

We heard a lot of "but we taught him much better" and they even told us he didn't keep it loaded (not sure who was wrong or lying). They told us later they took it away from him.

If my grandparents had asked and they knew they had guns in the house, they would have been OK with me being over there if they were secured. As it was, me having not touched a firearm in my life to that point and him demonstrating an obvious disregard for firearm safety, I could have easily become an accidental gun death statistic used by the antis.

I never played with him again.

It's one thing to have faith in your own child that they will be responsible with a firearm -- it's another altogether to ask somebody else to have that same faith. Sure, you can say "Firearms aren't locked up in my home and if you don't like it you're welcome to leave," but the parents do, in my opinion, have a right to ask. My parents wouldn't let me play at a house with a pool unless there were parents around. Guns are the same thing and can be enjoyed responsibly.

[Ruger480]

Short answer to the OP. No. My kid does not get to visit that house.