1851 Navy Confederate .44 Cal

Katfish Kern · March 1, 2009, 09:28 AM

I was looking in Cabelas, and I saw this pistol. I dont know what it is about it...but I want it. I tried to order it, and the lady at Cabelas told me that they were so backed up with this pistol, that they would not recieve any more until march 25th. I need some real no B.S. about this gun, can somebody please help. I have spoken with alot of folks about it. Some love the ball and caps...others tell me that all the charges will go off and blow my hand off (not really looking for that to happen). Any help will be greatly appreciated.

GO VOLS

Hawg · March 1, 2009, 09:49 AM

It's a good starter gun even tho the brass frame and .44 caliber are not historically accurate for a 51 Navy. The brass frame won't hold up to heavy loads but will last a lifetime with moderate loads. Black powder is a whole nother world but a fun one. You can forget just about everything you know about shooting and cleaning smokeless because it won't work with black. Use lubed wads under the balls or lube over them and you won't have any chain fires. If you do have a chain it won't blow your hand off. Unless it's some kind of freak accident it won't do you any harm.

Katfish Kern · March 1, 2009, 10:42 AM

Whats the deal with peanut butter?? Some guys are telling me that I need to put peanut butter in the breach.

Hawg · March 1, 2009, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Whats the deal with peanut butter?? Some guys are telling me that I need to put peanut butter in the breach.

They're jerking your chain.

Lubing with peanut oil would work but kind of expensive compared to olive oil or other vegetable based lubes. One thing you don't want to do is use petroleum based lubes in the bore or chambers.

Katfish Kern · March 1, 2009, 11:36 AM

I figured this much....cant trust nobody huh? Ha! Thanks for all the help.

w_houle · March 1, 2009, 11:49 AM

Well at least it wouldn't have hurt anything. BTW did they suggest crunchy or creamy?

Fingers McGee · March 1, 2009, 01:12 PM

Katfish,

There is lots and lots of info on the web to get you started correctly. Visit these other forums and read up on the how tos

http://www.curtrich.com/frontiersmen.html

http://www.curtrich.com/bpsubsdummies.html

http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?board=31.0

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/ind...oard,82.0.html

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=207029

A warning though - you will get information overload.

Another good way to get started is to partner up with someone near you that shoots C&Bs on a regular basis.

FM

PS. Chunky would be my guess. Sorta like a buck & ball load.

Hawg · March 1, 2009, 01:25 PM

What Fingers said. There's a lot of different ways of doing things with bp. Doesn't mean any of them are wrong, just different. Read all you can and ask questions and experiment and decide which way is best for you. BTW, if it was me I'd spend the extra bucks and get a steel frame.

Fingers McGee · March 1, 2009, 01:28 PM

Quote Hawg Haggan

Quote:

BTW, if it was me I'd spend the extra bucks and get a steel frame.

Me too.

Katfish Kern · March 1, 2009, 03:36 PM

Thanks for all the help fellas. I'm just keeping my feet wet now, so should I spend more now, or just tinker around with this for now??

Hawg · March 1, 2009, 03:42 PM

The brass .44 is a good entry level gun. It'll get you addicted and you'll get more later on anyway.

The only thing about brass is it won't handle a steady diet of loads of 30 grs. or more like the steel ones will. You'll want .454 balls not the .451's Cabela's has in their starter kits.

Gaucho Gringo · March 2, 2009, 08:18 PM

I have the steel framed version that bought from the Possibles Shop. I paid $169.00 for it last year but they have gone up to $179.00. It is still a good buy at that prices. They are listed under on sale revolvers.

w_houle · March 2, 2009, 09:11 PM

"I have the steel framed version that bought from the Possibles Shop. I paid $169.00 " That's what I paid for mine from Orscheln and I bought the R&D Cylinder from MidwayUSA for $175. The only thing is it likes .45 Schofield or .45Colt handloaded to 1.58"

madcratebuilder · March 3, 2009, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Thanks for all the help fellas. I'm just keeping my feet wet now, so should I spend more now, or just tinker around with this for now??

The brass frame well get you out shooting for the smallest investment. The accessories well apply to other revolvers if you decide you want more of these fire spiting smoke monsters. Have you looked at the 1858 that Cabela's has on sale? The 1858 may be the best 'first' BP revolver, very forgiving. These can be very addicting, you could end up with dozens of them.

Doc Hoy · March 3, 2009, 10:29 AM

MadCrateBuilder,

Just went to Cabela's sight and did not see a sale flier that included an 1858 Remington, but they do have a steel frame for 219.00 or 259.00 with all the stuff.

I agree this would be a good way to start.

I have two 1858's from ASM. One from 1984 (steel) and one from 1988 (brass) Niether has been shot very much, in fact the think the steel frame has never been fired. They are both very tight. Good pistols.

madcratebuilder · March 4, 2009, 09:15 AM

Doc
Cabela's may have ended that sale price the end of the month. I do know they run them on sale every six months or so. I picked up the target 1858 for $200 last summer. It turned out to be a nice shooter. If you look strictly at the price it may be one of the best deals around.
Sign up for Cabela's e-mails, join their club, you well get 15 and 20% discount coupons from time to time, plus free shipping offers almost all the time. They well apply the discount codes on top of sale prices. I think my brass 51 navy .44 was right at $120 shipped.

Doc Hoy · March 4, 2009, 11:16 AM

MadCrateBuilder,

20% off!? Coupon?! I'm on it. My next move is to get signed up.

Just bought the Griswold and Gunnison in .44 (Thanks to Mykeal for the correction) which Cabela's calls a round barreled 1851 Navy for 154.00 plus five bucks for shipping.

It is also brass but I don't intend to shoot it that much. I bought it because I didn't have one. Now I have come up with a second G&G from Navy Arms.

BTW, I have done a little looking around and the only references I can find report that both Griswold and Gunnison and Leech and Rigdon made these pistols in .36 caliber. DGW appears to only sell them in .36 caliber. Yet they are available in .44 (praise the lord).

Is there a historical prototype for these revolvers in .44?

Hawg · March 4, 2009, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Is there a historical prototype for these revolvers in .44?

Don't think so. The South was hard up for raw materials so they cut corners wherever they could. Most of the guns had brass frames and .36's used less lead and powder

Smokin_Gun · March 4, 2009, 12:12 PM

The Closest .44 was the Dance Brothers, steel frame .44 & .36 I'm told. There's nothin' that say's the CSA Din't make any .44 Brass framed 1851 Navys :O)

JohnMoberly · March 4, 2009, 10:23 PM

I just picked up two 1858 Brass Frame Remington Revolvers for 85 bucks a piece on Gunbrokers and Gunsamerica...might wanna check these sites

Doc Hoy · March 5, 2009, 07:00 AM

John,

Congrats on the purchase. I had the one on Gunbroker on my watch list. When it was clear it was going above 80.00 I just watched. I do hope the pistol serves you well. I would personally be interested in knowing how it is when you go over it.

Doc Hoy · March 5, 2009, 07:04 AM

Might try auctionarms.com as well. Not as popular so the searches produce fewer results but it does represent another source.

madcratebuilder · March 6, 2009, 11:02 AM

Since Gunsamerica has been mentioned I want to give a heads up. To be a seller on gunsamerica you do not need to give any financial information, ie no credit card as part of seller registration. I have read that several guys have been ripped off, so make sure you buy from someone with more than one or two feedbacks.
Gunbroker requires seller to give much more info and I feel it's a safer place to buy. Heck, between me and SG buying we keep that place a'float. rant off.

Doc Hoy, it appears you are interested in the guns of the confederacy. They sucked me in. Do a search on the High Standard "Guns of the Confederacy" They made three different cased sets. Like the 2nd and 3rd gen Colts they used Italian raw forgings/castings and then made their own small parts. They are a very nice revolver, as nice as the newer Colts, but in a brass frame. The Leech & Rigdon is steel frame.

Doc Hoy · March 6, 2009, 11:47 AM

Madcratebuilder,

You said, "it appears you are interested in the guns of the confederacy." I can't really say that I am. But I will certainly check the source you provided. I wound up with two which could best be described as having Confederate prototypes.

I bought the new "Round Barrel 1851 Navy Colt" (Their name) from Cabela's because, A) I didn't have one, and B) it was on sale. My less-than-well-informed thought was that the brass frame marks it as Confederate and with Mykeal's assistance, the round barrel makes it either Griswold & Gunnison or Leech and Rigdon. However it is a .44 and I can find nothing with tells me that either manufacturer produced pistols in that caliber. My thought that at a total run of just over 5000 pistols between the two builders which occurred over a period of time in which several factory moves were necessary, it isn't likely that either manufacturer was in a position to either retool for the larger caliber or run lines for two different calibers simultaneously. I think they made only .36s.

Then, by accident I came up with one at the gun show (That would be the same gun show that I have been griping about in a different thread.). This is a Navy Arms, brass frame, round barreled 1851 Navy in .44 Cal. Essentially it is identical to the Pietta from Cabela's but is marked Navy Arms.

For the used one, I gave eighty bucks, replaced the spring, polished up the brass and I swear to you it is every bit, the pistol that the brand new Pietta is.

So my affinity for Confederate revolvers is completely accidental. I have no intention of rushing out and buying a LeMat.

madcratebuilder · March 6, 2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

I bought the new "Round Barrel 1851 Navy Colt" (Their name) from Cabela's because, A) I didn't have one, and B) it was on sale.

Me too, I got suckered in on the price, nice revolver. My plan is to make it a belly gun. 2.5 inch barrel and round the grip frame in the back.

Quote:

Then, by accident I came up with one at the gun show (That would be the same gun show that I have been griping about in a different thread.). This is a Navy Arms, brass frame, round barreled 1851 Navy in .44 Cal.

I have a Navy Arms brass 51 Navy in .36 that was made by Uberti in 64, nice little gun. It has been antiqued at one time. I want to defarb the barrel and frame and redo the antique finish.
Nothing wrong with these brass frame guns, keep the load reasonable and they should last a long time. I have five all together now.

March 1, 2009, 09:28 AM	#1
Katfish Kern Junior Member Join Date: February 28, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 12	1851 Navy Confederate .44 Cal I was looking in Cabelas, and I saw this pistol. I dont know what it is about it...but I want it. I tried to order it, and the lady at Cabelas told me that they were so backed up with this pistol, that they would not recieve any more until march 25th. I need some real no B.S. about this gun, can somebody please help. I have spoken with alot of folks about it. Some love the ball and caps...others tell me that all the charges will go off and blow my hand off (not really looking for that to happen). Any help will be greatly appreciated. GO VOLS

March 1, 2009, 10:42 AM	#3
Katfish Kern Junior Member Join Date: February 28, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 12	Whats the deal with peanut butter?? Some guys are telling me that I need to put peanut butter in the breach. __________________ GO VOLS

March 1, 2009, 11:36 AM	#5
Katfish Kern Junior Member Join Date: February 28, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 12	I figured this much....cant trust nobody huh? Ha! Thanks for all the help. __________________ GO VOLS

March 1, 2009, 11:49 AM	#6
w_houle Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2007 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,391	Well at least it wouldn't have hurt anything. BTW did they suggest crunchy or creamy? __________________ How could you have a slogan like "freedom is slavery" when the concept of freedom has been abolished?

March 1, 2009, 01:12 PM	#7
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Katfish, There is lots and lots of info on the web to get you started correctly. Visit these other forums and read up on the how tos http://www.curtrich.com/frontiersmen.html http://www.curtrich.com/bpsubsdummies.html http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?board=31.0 http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/ind...oard,82.0.html http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=207029 A warning though - you will get information overload. Another good way to get started is to partner up with someone near you that shoots C&Bs on a regular basis. FM PS. Chunky would be my guess. Sorta like a buck & ball load. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

March 1, 2009, 09:49 AM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	It's a good starter gun even tho the brass frame and .44 caliber are not historically accurate for a 51 Navy. The brass frame won't hold up to heavy loads but will last a lifetime with moderate loads. Black powder is a whole nother world but a fun one. You can forget just about everything you know about shooting and cleaning smokeless because it won't work with black. Use lubed wads under the balls or lube over them and you won't have any chain fires. If you do have a chain it won't blow your hand off. Unless it's some kind of freak accident it won't do you any harm.

March 1, 2009, 01:25 PM	#8
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	What Fingers said. There's a lot of different ways of doing things with bp. Doesn't mean any of them are wrong, just different. Read all you can and ask questions and experiment and decide which way is best for you. BTW, if it was me I'd spend the extra bucks and get a steel frame.

March 1, 2009, 03:36 PM	#10
Katfish Kern Junior Member Join Date: February 28, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 12	Thanks for all the help fellas. I'm just keeping my feet wet now, so should I spend more now, or just tinker around with this for now?? __________________ GO VOLS

March 1, 2009, 03:42 PM	#11
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	The brass .44 is a good entry level gun. It'll get you addicted and you'll get more later on anyway. The only thing about brass is it won't handle a steady diet of loads of 30 grs. or more like the steel ones will. You'll want .454 balls not the .451's Cabela's has in their starter kits.

March 2, 2009, 08:18 PM	#12
Gaucho Gringo Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2007 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 366	I have the steel framed version that bought from the Possibles Shop. I paid $169.00 for it last year but they have gone up to $179.00. It is still a good buy at that prices. They are listed under on sale revolvers. __________________ 357 Taurus Gaucho, 22 Heritage RR, 2-Pietta 1858 44 NMA Remingtons, Pietta, Euroarms & ASM 36 1851 Navies, 31 Uberti 1849, 12 ga H&R Topper, 16 Ga Western Field, 43 Spanish Remington Rolling Block, 44 ASM Colt Walker, High Point C9 9mm, Winchester 1906 22, Rossi 62 22 rifle, Uberti 1860, H&A & IJ 32 S&W BreakTop, 36 Euroarms 1858, 32 H&R 04, 22mag NAA SS BP revolver, .44 Rodgers & Spencer, IJ 38 S&W BreakTop, IJ 22 Sealed 8

March 2, 2009, 09:11 PM	#13
w_houle Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2007 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,391	"I have the steel framed version that bought from the Possibles Shop. I paid $169.00 " That's what I paid for mine from Orscheln and I bought the R&D Cylinder from MidwayUSA for $175. The only thing is it likes .45 Schofield or .45Colt handloaded to 1.58" __________________ How could you have a slogan like "freedom is slavery" when the concept of freedom has been abolished?

March 3, 2009, 10:29 AM	#15
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Sale? Sale? MadCrateBuilder, Just went to Cabela's sight and did not see a sale flier that included an 1858 Remington, but they do have a steel frame for 219.00 or 259.00 with all the stuff. I agree this would be a good way to start. I have two 1858's from ASM. One from 1984 (steel) and one from 1988 (brass) Niether has been shot very much, in fact the think the steel frame has never been fired. They are both very tight. Good pistols. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

March 4, 2009, 09:15 AM	#16
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	Doc Cabela's may have ended that sale price the end of the month. I do know they run them on sale every six months or so. I picked up the target 1858 for $200 last summer. It turned out to be a nice shooter. If you look strictly at the price it may be one of the best deals around. Sign up for Cabela's e-mails, join their club, you well get 15 and 20% discount coupons from time to time, plus free shipping offers almost all the time. They well apply the discount codes on top of sale prices. I think my brass 51 navy .44 was right at $120 shipped.

March 4, 2009, 11:16 AM	#17
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Yup! MadCrateBuilder, 20% off!? Coupon?! I'm on it. My next move is to get signed up. Just bought the Griswold and Gunnison in .44 (Thanks to Mykeal for the correction) which Cabela's calls a round barreled 1851 Navy for 154.00 plus five bucks for shipping. It is also brass but I don't intend to shoot it that much. I bought it because I didn't have one. Now I have come up with a second G&G from Navy Arms. BTW, I have done a little looking around and the only references I can find report that both Griswold and Gunnison and Leech and Rigdon made these pistols in .36 caliber. DGW appears to only sell them in .36 caliber. Yet they are available in .44 (praise the lord). Is there a historical prototype for these revolvers in .44? __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath. Last edited by Doc Hoy; March 4, 2009 at 03:56 PM. Reason: Misspelled Rigdon

March 4, 2009, 12:12 PM	#19
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	The Closest .44 was the Dance Brothers, steel frame .44 & .36 I'm told. There's nothin' that say's the CSA Din't make any .44 Brass framed 1851 Navys :O) __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

March 4, 2009, 10:23 PM	#20
JohnMoberly Junior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Posts: 4	Pick one up cheap used I just picked up two 1858 Brass Frame Remington Revolvers for 85 bucks a piece on Gunbrokers and Gunsamerica...might wanna check these sites

March 5, 2009, 07:00 AM	#21
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I was watching that Remington on Gunbroker John, Congrats on the purchase. I had the one on Gunbroker on my watch list. When it was clear it was going above 80.00 I just watched. I do hope the pistol serves you well. I would personally be interested in knowing how it is when you go over it. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

March 5, 2009, 07:04 AM	#22
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Ooop! I forgot to mention Might try auctionarms.com as well. Not as popular so the searches produce fewer results but it does represent another source. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath. Last edited by Doc Hoy; March 5, 2009 at 07:05 AM. Reason: BFI

March 6, 2009, 11:02 AM	#23
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	Since Gunsamerica has been mentioned I want to give a heads up. To be a seller on gunsamerica you do not need to give any financial information, ie no credit card as part of seller registration. I have read that several guys have been ripped off, so make sure you buy from someone with more than one or two feedbacks. Gunbroker requires seller to give much more info and I feel it's a safer place to buy. Heck, between me and SG buying we keep that place a'float. rant off. Doc Hoy, it appears you are interested in the guns of the confederacy. They sucked me in. Do a search on the High Standard "Guns of the Confederacy" They made three different cased sets. Like the 2nd and 3rd gen Colts they used Italian raw forgings/castings and then made their own small parts. They are a very nice revolver, as nice as the newer Colts, but in a brass frame. The Leech & Rigdon is steel frame.

March 6, 2009, 11:47 AM	#24
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Not that sophistocated yet Madcratebuilder, You said, "it appears you are interested in the guns of the confederacy." I can't really say that I am. But I will certainly check the source you provided. I wound up with two which could best be described as having Confederate prototypes. I bought the new "Round Barrel 1851 Navy Colt" (Their name) from Cabela's because, A) I didn't have one, and B) it was on sale. My less-than-well-informed thought was that the brass frame marks it as Confederate and with Mykeal's assistance, the round barrel makes it either Griswold & Gunnison or Leech and Rigdon. However it is a .44 and I can find nothing with tells me that either manufacturer produced pistols in that caliber. My thought that at a total run of just over 5000 pistols between the two builders which occurred over a period of time in which several factory moves were necessary, it isn't likely that either manufacturer was in a position to either retool for the larger caliber or run lines for two different calibers simultaneously. I think they made only .36s. Then, by accident I came up with one at the gun show (That would be the same gun show that I have been griping about in a different thread.). This is a Navy Arms, brass frame, round barreled 1851 Navy in .44 Cal. Essentially it is identical to the Pietta from Cabela's but is marked Navy Arms. For the used one, I gave eighty bucks, replaced the spring, polished up the brass and I swear to you it is every bit, the pistol that the brand new Pietta is. So my affinity for Confederate revolvers is completely accidental. I have no intention of rushing out and buying a LeMat. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.