Single shot shotgun - Scope? Y/N?

Moloch · May 14, 2012, 05:21 AM

Fellow shotgunners, I need your opinion on this!

I have a Baikal single shot shotgun with ejector which has been shortened to 20'' and equipped with rifle sights.(Sight picture reminds me of the Mosin Nagant m44 with a slightly wider front post)
I get about Palm-sized groups at 50 with various brands of Brenneke slugs, I wonder if I could do better with a scope?

I have played with the idea of getting a low picatinny rail welded onto the barrel and putting a 1-4 scope on it. Why? I like scopes, I really do.
But if it doesn't improve the accuracy its a total waste of money. What do you think?

And yes, it recoils like a mule on steroids with 3'' slugs - especially from the bench! It weighs 6 lbs! I love it!

Husqvarna · May 14, 2012, 12:01 PM

isn't there some kind of reddot that people use when birdhunting?

holographic or paralexfree is that the correct terms?

should be good for both

you still don't aim when shooting birds or clay pidgeons but you swing thru and I guess pull the trigger when the dot is on the target,

Moloch · May 14, 2012, 01:29 PM

I only shoot slugs with it, the barrel is not choked and rather short so I would never use it to shoot clay etc.

Dave McC · May 14, 2012, 04:03 PM

I've used tang and receiver sights on sundry BP rifles and muzzleleoaders.

Long sight radius= improved accuracy. And better for Eastern style deer hunting than most scopes.

One thing. When was the last time you saw a break action target rifle?

Right....

Moloch · May 14, 2012, 04:32 PM

Quote:

One thing. When was the last time you saw a break action target rifle? Right.

One hour ago, it was a heavy barreled H&R .45-70 ''buffalo'' with very nice tang sight. Nice gun, really nice.

Quote:

I've used tang and receiver sights on sundry BP rifles and muzzleleoaders.

I prefer buckhorn sights on my lever action and muzzleloaders, for reasons unknown I'm an awful shot with all kinds of tang and peep sights. (I always get awful vertical stringing)

Back to my original question, what kind of accuracy can I expect with Brenneke slugs out of a smoothbore and a scope? Is it worth scoping a shotgun?

chewie146 · May 14, 2012, 04:34 PM

The accuracy may not improve, but your ability to shoot it well may improve substantially. However, I have a similar setup with an NEF, and I stick to the irons. There isn't enough accuracy for me to try to milk head shots on a rabbit out of it. I'd say with that gun, no. With a larger gun, sure. I'd be afraid you'd ruin the balance of an otherwise handy, short shotgun.

Moloch · May 14, 2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

With a larger gun, sure. I'd be afraid you'd ruin the balance of an otherwise handy, short shotgun.

Hm, this makes a lot of sense. It sure is a handy little slug gun with good-enough accuracy.
Maybe modding every gun and trying to get as much accuracy as possible out of it no matter what is not always the best idea.

Though I could give a little red-dot a try.

Gunplummer · May 14, 2012, 09:15 PM

I have an H&R break open from the 30's I put a scope on to shoot slugs. I machined the base and silver soldered it on. (I advise mounting a scope on the base, holding it to position , and marking where it goes before soldering.) The base accepts weaver style rings. It is a good solid set up and at 50 yards I get one ragged hole with Federal 2 3/4 slugs. I never tried it on targets past 50 yards, but shot two deer at 70-80 yards and it hit right where I aimed. I never saw the type of gun you have so I don't know how thick the tube is. Some of the newer guns have really thin tubes and I would be afraid silver solder or braze on them. Other than that it works out well. I am thinking you should use a bag to test your sights and various types of slugs. Even with a scope my gun will not group some brands very well. I got lucky and it seems to like the cheapest slugs out there.

ohen cepel · May 14, 2012, 09:28 PM

I would be concerned if the stock will fit you well with a scope on it. Could be a bear to shoot if you're head needs to be up any.

I think the tang sight option or the red dot would be a better set up in this case.

shortwave · May 14, 2012, 10:36 PM

[/QUOTE]

Quote:

One thing. When was the last time you saw a break action target rifle? Right.

Quote:

One hour ago, it was a heavy barreled H&R .45-70 ''buffalo'' ....

...and if was a truly, accurized 'target' rifle, it more then likely had precision work done on the hinge/locking assy. assembly.... ...something your Baikal more then likely does not have. Too, the use of a bull bbl on any firearm does not necessarily constitute a 'target' weapon...but that's another discussion.
The simple design of a hinge gun inherently makes it a less then desirable design for a target gun because of the repetitive motion/wear on the hinge/locking assy's when loading causing it to become loose. Therefore not letting the bbl align the same every time with the stock. Results when this happens... good enough deer hunting accuracy but surely not target grade material.... and more then likely what Dave McC is referring to with his post.

Will you be able to tighten your groups up over open sights a bit... probably, but it won't be a target gun.

Course a scope will add a little weight and reduce recoil a tad.

Dave McC · May 15, 2012, 03:05 PM

Moloch, not many folks would regard a break action 45-70 as a target rifle, thought some politicians might regard it as an "assault weapon"....

FYI, I had a 45-70 target rifle, an Italian repro rolling block that weighed 11 lbs,had a tang sight and shot into 1 3/4" ETE at 100 yards.That was with tailored handloads.

I also had an H&R in 30-30, 4x Leopold. With handloads, benchwork saw 3" groups at 100 yards, with frequent 2.5" groups. Fun little shooter.

One thing. Have you tried different slugs in yours? I can double group size by switching brands. Testing a few more slugs may find something your shotgun "Likes".....

scottycoyote · May 15, 2012, 03:15 PM

i say go for it, i scoped my 20g barrel on my encore prohunter for the ability to shoot slugs but also shells if i run across a fall turkey or a bushytail--works great but i have a rifled screw in choke to help on the slugs. buy a couple different slug types and see if you can get a decent grouping with it and then go from there, thats what i did.

johnwilliamson062 · May 15, 2012, 08:31 PM

I scoped my 12ga a few years ago. I unscoped it the following hunting season. That said, it seems almost everyone has to try it. I don't think welding the rails is a good idea.

idek · May 16, 2012, 12:45 AM

As another poster said, adding a scope could likely require you to raise your head off the stock, and you might experience some serious cheek slap. If you go that route, you might end up needing some means of raising the comb as well.

I'd say that palm sized groups out of a smooth-bore at 50 yards is pretty decent, and I don't think a scope would close that up much.

A holographic sight would probably have a lower profile than a scope and might be faster than iron sights, but I still wonder if it would make you shoot much better.

I think your gun is fairly nice looking at the moment. Not sure how much that matters to you, but welding on a rail and sticking some kind of optic on it would detract from the appearance in my opinion.

Gunplummer · May 16, 2012, 01:01 AM

It is a single shot shot gun. You are not going to detract from the value if you do it right. A shot gun stock is not like a rifle stock. If the base is right on the tube WHERE IT BELONGS, and you use low rings, there will not be a stock problem. This is not speculation, I still hunt with this gun. If I could not do better than a palm size group at 50 yards, I would leave it a bird gun. Seriously, try different brands of slugs. Expensive does not mean better.

Moloch · May 16, 2012, 01:30 PM

Quote:

One thing. Have you tried different slugs in yours? I can double group size by switching brands. Testing a few more slugs may find something your shotgun "Likes".....

I've only tested about 3 brands of different slugs yet, the gun tends to like one ounce Brenneke slugs with a traditional wad and full power loads, I get bad accuracy with other types of slugs with plastic wads.

Right now I think I'll leave it as it is and do some more accuracy testing; if it shoots a specific brand REALLY well I might go back and put a scope on it.

Dave McC · May 16, 2012, 02:58 PM

OK. Let us know how things work out....

Moloch · September 8, 2012, 07:45 AM

Update! Found slugs my shotgun really likes, Palla B&P ''Big game'', VERY hot loaded stuff (500 @ 1550 fp/s) but it groups very nicely and it doesn't leave a mess in the barrel. My shoulder doesn't like it though; free recoil energy is in the high 40's ft/lbs, a lot of fun when shot from the bench with a hard plastic butt pad.

Groups at 50 about 1.5'', standing without support 2.5'' groups which is good enough for me. No scope needed.

And boy, shooting slugs is so much fun, I love the sound they make when they whistle through the air and impact with a satisfying ''WHACK!''

shortwave · September 8, 2012, 01:45 PM

Glad you found your slug you 'recoil junkie' you.

Dave McC · September 8, 2012, 03:42 PM

Thanks for the update, Moloch. Good luck with the beast.....

Moloch · January 26, 2013, 09:23 AM

Now I'm totally convinced that I do not need to scope it.

60 yds, open sights, Rottweil Exact slugs, 6 shots.

May 14, 2012, 05:21 AM	#1
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	Single shot shotgun - Scope? Y/N? Fellow shotgunners, I need your opinion on this! I have a Baikal single shot shotgun with ejector which has been shortened to 20'' and equipped with rifle sights.(Sight picture reminds me of the Mosin Nagant m44 with a slightly wider front post) I get about Palm-sized groups at 50 with various brands of Brenneke slugs, I wonder if I could do better with a scope? I have played with the idea of getting a low picatinny rail welded onto the barrel and putting a 1-4 scope on it. Why? I like scopes, I really do. But if it doesn't improve the accuracy its a total waste of money. What do you think? And yes, it recoils like a mule on steroids with 3'' slugs - especially from the bench! It weighs 6 lbs! I love it!

May 14, 2012, 09:28 PM	#9
ohen cepel Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 1999 Location: Where they send me Posts: 1,013	I would be concerned if the stock will fit you well with a scope on it. Could be a bear to shoot if you're head needs to be up any. I think the tang sight option or the red dot would be a better set up in this case. __________________ He who dares wins. NRA Life Benefactor Member

May 15, 2012, 03:15 PM	#12
scottycoyote Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2005 Location: southwestern va Posts: 830	i say go for it, i scoped my 20g barrel on my encore prohunter for the ability to shoot slugs but also shells if i run across a fall turkey or a bushytail--works great but i have a rifled screw in choke to help on the slugs. buy a couple different slug types and see if you can get a decent grouping with it and then go from there, thats what i did. __________________ "i got the most powerful gun in the world........an .88 magnum. It shoots thru schools......"

May 14, 2012, 12:01 PM	#2
Husqvarna Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2012 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,000	isn't there some kind of reddot that people use when birdhunting? holographic or paralexfree is that the correct terms? should be good for both you still don't aim when shooting birds or clay pidgeons but you swing thru and I guess pull the trigger when the dot is on the target,

May 14, 2012, 01:29 PM	#3
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	I only shoot slugs with it, the barrel is not choked and rather short so I would never use it to shoot clay etc.

May 14, 2012, 04:03 PM	#4
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	I've used tang and receiver sights on sundry BP rifles and muzzleleoaders. Long sight radius= improved accuracy. And better for Eastern style deer hunting than most scopes. One thing. When was the last time you saw a break action target rifle? Right....

May 14, 2012, 04:34 PM	#6
chewie146 Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2010 Location: New Mexico Posts: 853	The accuracy may not improve, but your ability to shoot it well may improve substantially. However, I have a similar setup with an NEF, and I stick to the irons. There isn't enough accuracy for me to try to milk head shots on a rabbit out of it. I'd say with that gun, no. With a larger gun, sure. I'd be afraid you'd ruin the balance of an otherwise handy, short shotgun.

May 14, 2012, 09:15 PM	#8
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	I have an H&R break open from the 30's I put a scope on to shoot slugs. I machined the base and silver soldered it on. (I advise mounting a scope on the base, holding it to position , and marking where it goes before soldering.) The base accepts weaver style rings. It is a good solid set up and at 50 yards I get one ragged hole with Federal 2 3/4 slugs. I never tried it on targets past 50 yards, but shot two deer at 70-80 yards and it hit right where I aimed. I never saw the type of gun you have so I don't know how thick the tube is. Some of the newer guns have really thin tubes and I would be afraid silver solder or braze on them. Other than that it works out well. I am thinking you should use a bag to test your sights and various types of slugs. Even with a scope my gun will not group some brands very well. I got lucky and it seems to like the cheapest slugs out there.

May 15, 2012, 03:05 PM	#11
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Moloch, not many folks would regard a break action 45-70 as a target rifle, thought some politicians might regard it as an "assault weapon".... FYI, I had a 45-70 target rifle, an Italian repro rolling block that weighed 11 lbs,had a tang sight and shot into 1 3/4" ETE at 100 yards.That was with tailored handloads. I also had an H&R in 30-30, 4x Leopold. With handloads, benchwork saw 3" groups at 100 yards, with frequent 2.5" groups. Fun little shooter. One thing. Have you tried different slugs in yours? I can double group size by switching brands. Testing a few more slugs may find something your shotgun "Likes".....

May 15, 2012, 08:31 PM	#13
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	I scoped my 12ga a few years ago. I unscoped it the following hunting season. That said, it seems almost everyone has to try it. I don't think welding the rails is a good idea.

May 16, 2012, 12:45 AM	#14
idek Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2009 Posts: 903	As another poster said, adding a scope could likely require you to raise your head off the stock, and you might experience some serious cheek slap. If you go that route, you might end up needing some means of raising the comb as well. I'd say that palm sized groups out of a smooth-bore at 50 yards is pretty decent, and I don't think a scope would close that up much. A holographic sight would probably have a lower profile than a scope and might be faster than iron sights, but I still wonder if it would make you shoot much better. I think your gun is fairly nice looking at the moment. Not sure how much that matters to you, but welding on a rail and sticking some kind of optic on it would detract from the appearance in my opinion.

May 16, 2012, 01:01 AM	#15
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	It is a single shot shot gun. You are not going to detract from the value if you do it right. A shot gun stock is not like a rifle stock. If the base is right on the tube WHERE IT BELONGS, and you use low rings, there will not be a stock problem. This is not speculation, I still hunt with this gun. If I could not do better than a palm size group at 50 yards, I would leave it a bird gun. Seriously, try different brands of slugs. Expensive does not mean better.

May 16, 2012, 02:58 PM	#17
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	OK. Let us know how things work out....

September 8, 2012, 07:45 AM	#18
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	Update! Found slugs my shotgun really likes, Palla B&P ''Big game'', VERY hot loaded stuff (500 @ 1550 fp/s) but it groups very nicely and it doesn't leave a mess in the barrel. My shoulder doesn't like it though; free recoil energy is in the high 40's ft/lbs, a lot of fun when shot from the bench with a hard plastic butt pad. Groups at 50 about 1.5'', standing without support 2.5'' groups which is good enough for me. No scope needed. And boy, shooting slugs is so much fun, I love the sound they make when they whistle through the air and impact with a satisfying ''WHACK!''

September 8, 2012, 01:45 PM	#19
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	Glad you found your slug you 'recoil junkie' you.

September 8, 2012, 03:42 PM	#20
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Thanks for the update, Moloch. Good luck with the beast.....

January 26, 2013, 09:23 AM	#21
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	Now I'm totally convinced that I do not need to scope it. 60 yds, open sights, Rottweil Exact slugs, 6 shots.