Cat Problems

[Hunter Customs]

I get called on quite a bit when neighbors have problems with coyotes killing their livestock.

I got a call the other day from a couple that's losing sheep, so I went over to take a look.
They started telling and showing me what was taking place.

They have lost several ewes and one big ram, some of these animals have been taken over the top of a 5 foot fence to never be seen again, the fence is tight woven wire with a strand or two of barb wire on the top.

The couple had called the MDC, they sent a guy out, his suggestion was to keep the sheep in a small lot close to the house, but he would not say what he thought was killing the sheep.
I'm sure this guy don't know much about sheep but keeping them in a small lot in 100 plus degree heat is not the best scenario for sheep that's already under a lot of stress.

Anyway I saw first hand a ewe that was killed night before last in the lot close to the house.
The ewe's throat was ripped out and whatever killed her started eating into the chest cavity behind the right front shoulder.

I told the couple that this looks like what a big cat would do and not coyotes.
All the coyote kills I've witnessed the coyotes start eating at the rump and work their way forward.

You all that live around areas with big cats and have witnessed big cat kills what's your opinion?

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

[Art Eatman]

Carrying a carcass over a four- or five-foot fence? Easy-peasy for a cougar. No problem at all.

From local folks' experience, cougar kills on goats or dogs seem to be from biting the neck or head. Then, the cat opens the paunch, usually.

Absent really hard ground, clawmarks in the dirt from a wolf or bear could be spotted. Cat? Only see paddy-paw prints in dirt that's pretty soft. And I sure don't see coyotes hauling a sheep over a fence.

[hogdogs]

I agree 100% with Art and think you are on the right track...

Dogs eat their kill where they kill it or drag it off but never thought a 'yote could haul a ewe over a good fence...

Brent

[FrankenMauser]

I agree.
Cougars and Bears might drag the kill over the fence, but not dogs (even wolves, generally). If they sense a threat, bears will even drag the animal off while it's still alive.
It also isn't uncommon for bears to rip the throat out, before chowing down. But, they don't kill as cleanly as a Cougar; so the animal should be more torn up around the head, neck, and shoulders.

Dogs almost always start eating from the anus or on the paunch.
Big cats usually start eating closer to the shoulders. Smaller cats often start at the paunch or the genitals.
Bears seem to be more lazy - just tearing into whatever thin-skinned area is closest to them when they decide to start eating.

[s3779m]

I have had two lambs bit in half and the top half carried off. Do ya'll think this would also be cats? The two were about half grown and the incidences were about a year apart.

[David13]

The strength of even moderate sized cats is amazing.
And I have notice they do eat into the upper portion of the kill more, rather that the lower areas.
As far as cat kills here, here is a link to a recent one, with two interesting photos, taken on a road that usually on weekends sees hundreds, if not thousands of motorcycle, and race car traffic.
dc
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ght=mulholland

Scroll down for the second photo. A guy on a bike stops to watch the cat.

[buck460XVR]

Yep....sure sounds like a cat.

[Art Eatman]

A hurrying cougar looked to me as though it was getting 20 to 30 feet between leaps. I can believe that they can cover a hundred yards in four or five seconds, from watching that one.

Vertical leap? I can easily believe twelve or more feet, although I've read claims of twenty.

An 80-pound female can drag a 600-pound cow elk some fifty feet or so to where it can cover the carcass with brush.

[Hunter Customs]

Thanks for all the responses, it pretty much confirms my suspicions.

I told the couple what cat tracks look like, as I've seen them around our area but have never seen a cat.

The problem is, except for this morning's rain we've been back in drought conditions, so the lot was dry and as hard as concrete, I could not find a track from anything including the sheep.

The next problem is I don't believe that I can legally shoot the cat for them.
In Missouri the big cats are protected unless they are a threat to humans or killing your livestock, it's not my livestock being killed so that kind of puts us between a rock and a hard spot.

It's very evident the MDC does not want to do anything about it, I would think they could send out a professional hunter or trapper.

The only alternative may be for the couple to trap the cat, then shoot it.
I'm going to do some checking with the MDC and see what they can legally do.

Thanks again for all the responses.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

[hogdogs]

In florida, I can act as the "agent" for the land owner.... With the exception of hogs and a couple other critters, I have to posses a recreational hunting license and always MUST have written permission unless the actual owner is with me...

Brent

[Quadpod88]

its definitely a cougar, get some trail cams to prove it and establish a case for the the game warden when you shoot it. Trust me, sometimes it's not enough to tell them the story, but they can't argue with video or photographic evidence.

[Rikakiah]

I thought there was a similar thing in MO, I remember seeing something of that nature for coyote and other nuisance critter, it was buried pretty deep somewhere, though.

I live in MO, but not quite ready to hunt so haven't researched too deeply, especially not outside my intended game (coyote), so not positive on the details. There does seem to be a lot of omission or lack of clarity in game laws here that aren't deer or turkey, though.

[ChasingWhitetail91]

I posted this experience a while back, but last year hunting in northeast CT I came across what i'm guessing was either a lion or bear kill. There was a large area of fur and dried blood and it seemed like the carcass was dragged a few feet on the ground after it was taken down. The reason im leaning towards a lion kill is that about 10 yards from that first area were few bones and ALOT of fur and blood in this small brush thicket. There was not a significant amount of fur or blood between the two which leads me to believe the deer was carried, not dragged, from the initial area into the thicket.

[Art Eatman]

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...0&d=1305777951

The tire tread is about six inches wide.

I've had some by the house where I could close my fist and place my hand palm-down in the track--and have an inch of cat track outside my fist.

[Cowboy_mo]

You are definitely correct about MDC not wanting to do anything about the problem. They don't even want to openly admit that we have cougars in MO until someone brings them the body.

[globemaster3]

+1 to cowboy mo. 2 years ago, near Troy, I had a friend who moved into the country and a week later spotted one in a tree in the woods behind the house. He's got small kids, so that was a major concern.

MDC's response was "we don't have cougars in MO."

To which he replied "well, guess you won't mind me shooting one, then, since they don't exist."

"Nope, that would be illegal!"

Illegal to shoot something that doesn't exist...

This was brought home a month ago when my 8 year old came running into the living room asking if there existed such a cat that had big teeth... After some open ended questions not designed to elicit a certain answer, I finished with "what did its tail look like", hoping he'd say small...

"It was huge, Dad, almost as long as the body!"....

Yep, he described a cougar to a T. Now my oldest is on alert to grab her deer rifle if this thing is spotted in the yard again... My biggest fear is one of these cats walking off with a child.

[Art Eatman]

A friend of mine killed a youngish cougar; sixty pounds, field-dressed. He barbecued the hams. Seriously good eats!

[buck460XVR]

I believe Wisconsin's stance on cougars is the same as Missouri's. They are no longer considered a native species and are protected under law. While they deny any existence of a breeding population, they do admit, when presented with proper evidence, of an occasional lone animal. When presented with sufficient evidence of predation on livestock, Wisconsin will attempt to trap/kill the animal. My DILs parents had evidence of a mountain lion on their farm a few years back and their neighbor had a calf determined killed by a cougar at the same time. When the warden was asked about shooting it, his reply was "there better be damn good evidence it was either attacking livestock or a threat to humans". I would contact the Missouri DNR. Getting advice for controlling predation from a protected animal from folks on a internet forum is more entertainment than fact........just sayin'.

[Hunter Customs]

Hunter, please post MDC's answer.

Cowboy, I'll be sure and post the response from MDC, but I think we already know what that will be.

buck460XVR, I will get confirmation from MDC on exactly what myself or the couple can do.

It does sound like Missouri and Wisconsin think alike on this.
I know that Missouri at one time would not acknowledge we even had big cats in the state, even when several people swore to seeing them.

When they started getting killed the standard MDC response was it must be someone's pet that escaped.

Now the standard response is, it's just a cat passing through, I always wonder who ask the cats if they are just passing through.
This seems to be the standard response from several states, they all must use the same play book.

At any rate if this one is just passing through it's taking it's sweet time in doing so, has developed a taste for mutton and has been killing sheep from the same flock since June of this year.

I don't know why the MDC does not want to help these folks or acknowledge they have a cat problem, maybe the MDC figures they would look guilty by association.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

[Hunter Customs]

A friend of mine killed a youngish cougar; sixty pounds, field-dressed. He barbecued the hams. Seriously good eats!

Art, I've never ate cougar, however I have a friend that has; he says it's some of the best meat he's ever eaten.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustopms.com

[g.willikers]

One of the clubs we used to be members of had a wild game dinner once a year, to help raise funds for the club and ranges.
Whoever had gone hunting brought what they had.
Once there was cougar meat included.
It tasted pretty much like any other game animal.
Depends more on the cook than the hunter.
Not bad at all.
But definitely not like a prime sirloin.
Kind of hard to beat a good cow.

[Rikakiah]

Interesting that they taste good, I'd have expected a cat, especially wild one to be rather lean muscle.

[Art Eatman]

My experience was at a cook-out party. All meats knowledgeably cooked. Venison, beef, javelina and cat. Quite a few folks were suspicious of the cat until after a small bite to taste-test.

Cat meat was the first empty platter.

[Mobuck]

Caught in the act, the animal can legally be killed in protection of livestock in MO. This has been done several times in the last few years as the "nonexistent" cougars have killed livestock in this state(Missouri).
If the cat is killed, call the local TV station before calling MDC. The bunny cops may snort and threaten but won't push the confrontation if publicity is on hand.

[Semper Paratus]

Does SSSU ring a bell? If not Shoot Shovel and shut up.