Hunter Arms Co, Fulton, NY

missmanytoes · February 5, 2000, 10:48 PM

I'm sitting here looking at a dbl barrel side-by-side 12ga shotgun here. The only markings I can find on it are:

between the barrels "HUNTER ARMS.CO.FULTON,N.Y."

On each side (one side engraved with a duck on a pond, the other with a quail) "L.C.SMITH"

On the trigger guard "203495"

Inside the trigger guard "HUNTER ONE TRIGGER"

The only thing I know about it is that it belonged to my husband's grandfather. I'm hoping someone here can tell me more...like and info on Hunter Arms Co, when it was made, what it might be worth, etc.

Harley Nolden · February 5, 2000, 10:57 PM

missmanytoes:
YOur shotgun was made by Cresent Arms, and the Hunter was made for Belknap Hardware Co. Of Louisville, KY

CRESCENT ARMS

This Company mfg'd good quality, inexpensive side by side and single Bbl shotguns and was founded in 1883. They were bought by the H&D Folsom Arms Company of New York, importers and distributors of firearms and sporting goods.

After the purchase of Crescent, the Folsom Company was able to offer a complete range of shotguns, imported English French, Belgium and American made Crescents. By the turn of the century Crescent Arms produced huge quantities of "Hardware Guns" it produced guns under direct contract to distributors, mail order housed and hardware distributors with any brand name the customer requested. Crescent also produced guns for its parent company, as Folsom house brands that were sold to customers that did not want their own brand name.

By the lat 1890's Crescent was producing basically five grade of dbl bbl shotguns offering a model for most tastes. The Crescent /Folsom Arms Company continued this type of business until 1930 when it merged with Davis Warner Arms Corp and became the Crescent-Davis Arms Corp. In 1932 it assets and machinery were bought by Stevens Arms Company, a victim of changing tastes and the depression

missmanytoes · February 5, 2000, 11:25 PM

Harley, boy are you fast! but, ummmm...does that mean that "hunter" is the model and Belknap Hardware was the distributor?

Do you have an idea when this particular weapon might have been made? The engravings on it are nice and obviously hand done; would "L.C.SMITH" have been the person who did the engraving? And do you know where I can get my hands on anything about assembly/disassembly on it? The safety is broken and I can't get the selector switch to move from the right barrel indicator (might just be gummed up, but I don't know) I got the forearm off and discovered some more markings: on the forearm itself is another (matching) serial number and the patent date (may 28, 1901) and on both barrels is a crown looking thingy with "CRCV(something) STEEL H.A.CO." written in a circle around it. There is also "(something)RALE" above the circle and "(something)AT.K" under the circle. On the receiver I found other patent marks and the serial number again. I appreciate your help

-sarah

[This message has been edited by missmanytoes (edited February 06, 2000).]

Harley Nolden · February 6, 2000, 06:57 AM

missmanytoes:
I can't ans. your questions for you, but a good "Smith" could probably make you a safety.

HJN

fal308 · February 6, 2000, 09:34 AM

Cresent was a large conglomerate that made firearms to many clients specifications. In your case Belknap Hardware wanted a specific double-barrel 12 ga to sell in their hardware stores, hence they contracted with Cresent to build the firearm. Belknap specified the brand name Hunter as the company name on the firearm.
In those days there wasn't any sort of "truth in advertising" and many mis-leading claims were made in all industries and commercial enterprises. The L.C. Smith that is engraved on the side is most likely an attempt to raise the price of the firearm. L.C. Smith was/is a builder/purveyor of finer quality firearms and was several steps above the level of most of the Cresent offerings. Or if this engraving is also obviously hand-wrought it could possibly have been a previous owner's name on the firearm.
The HUNTER ONE TRIGGER that you mention most likely was an option as most of the Cresent double barrels came standard with two triggers.
In 1904 Cresent started using fluid steel barrels. Could this be what is inscribed on yours? Fluid steel was used for smokeless powders.
Dating your firearm would be almost impossibe as I've never heard of a serial number breakdown for Cresent-produced firearms. Cresent produced firearms under at least two hundred different brand labels. They were meant to be sold economically in hardware stores, mail order etc.
As for parts, Gun Parts Corp does sell some parts www.gunpartscorp.com. But, as Harley said, take it to a 'smith to have it checked out if you plan on shooting it.

James K · February 6, 2000, 10:07 PM

Could the "CRCV*** STEEL" be "CRUCIBLE STEEL"?

That is another way of saying "fluid steel", in other words not Damascus.

It is possible (barely) that the "L.C. SMITH" marking indicates that the gun was owned by that company. It is normal practice for gun companies to have a study collection of competitors's guns.

Jim

Jim

[This message has been edited by Jim Keenan (edited February 06, 2000).]

Jim V · February 7, 2000, 07:06 PM

Off the subject, but welcome to TFL missmanytoes. Give your politactal(sp) cat a pat for me.

------------------
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"

missmanytoes · February 9, 2000, 10:04 AM

I appreciate all the replies I have gotten, and I will take the shotgun up to my smith to see if amongst all the other miracles he has performed for me over the years, he can fix the safety. I would prefer to have the gun be a shooter instead of a looker and need to have him evaluate it's safety for use anyway. (Jim V, MMT doesn't like to be patted, but I gave her a treat and told her it was from you)

February 5, 2000, 10:48 PM	#1
missmanytoes Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2000 Location: Central FL Posts: 133	I'm sitting here looking at a dbl barrel side-by-side 12ga shotgun here. The only markings I can find on it are: between the barrels "HUNTER ARMS.CO.FULTON,N.Y." On each side (one side engraved with a duck on a pond, the other with a quail) "L.C.SMITH" On the trigger guard "203495" Inside the trigger guard "HUNTER ONE TRIGGER" The only thing I know about it is that it belonged to my husband's grandfather. I'm hoping someone here can tell me more...like and info on Hunter Arms Co, when it was made, what it might be worth, etc.

February 5, 2000, 10:57 PM	#2
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	missmanytoes: YOur shotgun was made by Cresent Arms, and the Hunter was made for Belknap Hardware Co. Of Louisville, KY CRESCENT ARMS This Company mfg'd good quality, inexpensive side by side and single Bbl shotguns and was founded in 1883. They were bought by the H&D Folsom Arms Company of New York, importers and distributors of firearms and sporting goods. After the purchase of Crescent, the Folsom Company was able to offer a complete range of shotguns, imported English French, Belgium and American made Crescents. By the turn of the century Crescent Arms produced huge quantities of "Hardware Guns" it produced guns under direct contract to distributors, mail order housed and hardware distributors with any brand name the customer requested. Crescent also produced guns for its parent company, as Folsom house brands that were sold to customers that did not want their own brand name. By the lat 1890's Crescent was producing basically five grade of dbl bbl shotguns offering a model for most tastes. The Crescent /Folsom Arms Company continued this type of business until 1930 when it merged with Davis Warner Arms Corp and became the Crescent-Davis Arms Corp. In 1932 it assets and machinery were bought by Stevens Arms Company, a victim of changing tastes and the depression

February 5, 2000, 11:25 PM	#3
missmanytoes Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2000 Location: Central FL Posts: 133	Harley, boy are you fast! but, ummmm...does that mean that "hunter" is the model and Belknap Hardware was the distributor? Do you have an idea when this particular weapon might have been made? The engravings on it are nice and obviously hand done; would "L.C.SMITH" have been the person who did the engraving? And do you know where I can get my hands on anything about assembly/disassembly on it? The safety is broken and I can't get the selector switch to move from the right barrel indicator (might just be gummed up, but I don't know) I got the forearm off and discovered some more markings: on the forearm itself is another (matching) serial number and the patent date (may 28, 1901) and on both barrels is a crown looking thingy with "CRCV(something) STEEL H.A.CO." written in a circle around it. There is also "(something)RALE" above the circle and "(something)AT.K" under the circle. On the receiver I found other patent marks and the serial number again. I appreciate your help -sarah [This message has been edited by missmanytoes (edited February 06, 2000).]

February 6, 2000, 06:57 AM	#4
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	missmanytoes: I can't ans. your questions for you, but a good "Smith" could probably make you a safety. HJN

February 6, 2000, 09:34 AM	#5
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	Cresent was a large conglomerate that made firearms to many clients specifications. In your case Belknap Hardware wanted a specific double-barrel 12 ga to sell in their hardware stores, hence they contracted with Cresent to build the firearm. Belknap specified the brand name Hunter as the company name on the firearm. In those days there wasn't any sort of "truth in advertising" and many mis-leading claims were made in all industries and commercial enterprises. The L.C. Smith that is engraved on the side is most likely an attempt to raise the price of the firearm. L.C. Smith was/is a builder/purveyor of finer quality firearms and was several steps above the level of most of the Cresent offerings. Or if this engraving is also obviously hand-wrought it could possibly have been a previous owner's name on the firearm. The HUNTER ONE TRIGGER that you mention most likely was an option as most of the Cresent double barrels came standard with two triggers. In 1904 Cresent started using fluid steel barrels. Could this be what is inscribed on yours? Fluid steel was used for smokeless powders. Dating your firearm would be almost impossibe as I've never heard of a serial number breakdown for Cresent-produced firearms. Cresent produced firearms under at least two hundred different brand labels. They were meant to be sold economically in hardware stores, mail order etc. As for parts, Gun Parts Corp does sell some parts www.gunpartscorp.com. But, as Harley said, take it to a 'smith to have it checked out if you plan on shooting it.

February 6, 2000, 10:07 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Could the "CRCV*** STEEL" be "CRUCIBLE STEEL"? That is another way of saying "fluid steel", in other words not Damascus. It is possible (barely) that the "L.C. SMITH" marking indicates that the gun was owned by that company. It is normal practice for gun companies to have a study collection of competitors's guns. Jim Jim [This message has been edited by Jim Keenan (edited February 06, 2000).]

February 7, 2000, 07:06 PM	#7
Jim V Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 1999 Location: SE Michigan - USA Posts: 4,038	Off the subject, but welcome to TFL missmanytoes. Give your politactal(sp) cat a pat for me. ------------------ *Ne Conjuge Nobiscum* "If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"

February 9, 2000, 10:04 AM	#8
missmanytoes Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2000 Location: Central FL Posts: 133	I appreciate all the replies I have gotten, and I will take the shotgun up to my smith to see if amongst all the other miracles he has performed for me over the years, he can fix the safety. I would prefer to have the gun be a shooter instead of a looker and need to have him evaluate it's safety for use anyway. (Jim V, MMT doesn't like to be patted, but I gave her a treat and told her it was from you)