|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
April 1, 2011, 01:54 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 16, 2007
Posts: 147
|
1919A4 & M2HB Trigger System
I've been wanting an answer to this question for some time so I'll start here. If you had a 1919A4 or M2HB Semi Autos could you install a electric type motor to control the trigger function like replacing the trigger or butterfly lever with a hand crank? My personal feeling is no since with a flip of a switch you could fire more than a round with one flip. The part that kinda ties all this in is the hand crank as there is only your hand movement and the rate of fire can reach that of full autos and the crank is legal. So there you have my question.
__________________
"When the people fear the govt there is tyranny, when the govt fears the people there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson |
April 1, 2011, 05:24 PM | #2 |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,788
|
The hand crank is legal, because a certain degree of crank movement equals one pull of the trigger. An electric motor, would not be, unless you set it up so that each press of the button only fired one round.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
April 1, 2011, 10:39 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 21, 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 727
|
I thought of that once. I personally like the idea of setting a hand crank up to a pump which turns it really quickly for you. Another idea I have had is making it so that the gun forcibly reset the trigger after every shot for you. This would make it so all you have to do i maintain pressure and the gun will keep on firing and resetting the trigger to the forward position.
|
April 1, 2011, 10:55 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 27, 2008
Posts: 555
|
That last idea sounds kinda close to the Akins 10-22 stocks that ATF retroactively shut down. No modifications to the gun at all.
I have always wondered if making a 'recoil operated' firing system for personal use is different than marketing them for sale. Just can't afford to be the test case. They win. JT |
April 2, 2011, 10:43 AM | #5 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 5, 2009
Location: Uh-Hi-O
Posts: 3,006
|
Quote:
Is making a machine gun (without being a SOT) illegal? Yes. If you have an idea, submit it to the tech branch and hold your breath.
__________________
"9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens Last edited by Willie Lowman; April 2, 2011 at 01:05 PM. |
|
April 2, 2011, 01:34 PM | #6 | ||
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,967
|
Quote:
The various bump-firing add-ons are legal because the shooter is actually pulling the trigger for each shot--albeit by pulling the gun forward rather than pulling the trigger backward. The Akins went a tiny bit too far and had a spring pull the gun back foward and when the ATF finally caught on they reversed their initial decision and banned it. Quote:
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
|
||
April 2, 2011, 06:16 PM | #7 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 21, 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 727
|
Quote:
|
|
April 2, 2011, 07:29 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 20, 2008
Posts: 442
|
We just explained that to you - if "maintains pressure" is all a shooter needs to do, that setup is, essentially, an auto-sear. It's a machinegun, plain and simple.
|
April 2, 2011, 09:44 PM | #9 | |
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,967
|
Quote:
From past rulings the BATF says that the key is that the SHOOTER must be what operates the trigger once for each shot. If a spring or or some other mechanism is what operates the trigger then it's not going to be legal. The shooter must do something each time the gun fires--he must physically operate some part of the firearm by manually moving it a noticeable amount for each time a shot is discharged. If you can make a single movement and then remain motionless while the gun continues firing then it doesn't matter how the mechanism accomplishes that operation--doesn't matter if the trigger moves each time the gun fires or stays motionless against your finger. The firearm is a machinegun if it fires more than one shot without your having to do anything other than move once.
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
|
|
April 3, 2011, 09:47 AM | #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 21, 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 727
|
Quote:
|
|
April 3, 2011, 09:57 AM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 5, 2009
Location: Uh-Hi-O
Posts: 3,006
|
I see what you are saying but I don't think the ATF would let it fly.
__________________
"9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens |
April 3, 2011, 12:17 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 21, 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 727
|
It would make more sense if they declared this stuff as an AOW since they are technically semi-auto. At least then someone could get one at a reasonable price. Also I think it is complete BS how they regard even semi-auto open bolt guns as machine guns.
|
April 3, 2011, 12:56 PM | #13 | |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,788
|
Quote:
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
|
April 3, 2011, 10:37 PM | #14 | ||
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,967
|
Quote:
If you can maintain pressure on the trigger and the gun takes care of everything else that needs to happen for the gun to keep firing until you release pressure then the gun is a machinegun. Again, you can contact BATF for an official read, but the Akins case should be ample evidence that what you're describing isn't going to get past BATF. Quote:
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
|
||
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|