honest question- not intended to inflame

[bytor]

I am not angry with in-line shooters. the gun makers
are of course progressing in technology. I personnely
feel that when a muzzleloader is more reliable and more
accurate than a 30-30. well seems like something is
wrong. I hear the arguement that newer is better, and
that it is more humane to the animal. and all that stuff.

I feel that the modern in lines. have a place in
hunting. During the modern firearm season. I used
to hunt with a muzzle loader. when the state I hunt
in puts in better restrictions on modern muzzle loaders,
I may go back. But to take out a "primative weapon"
that can take a deer out at 200 plus yards. scoped, and
all. well its wrong. just go buy a damn .308 and go
after your deer.

[rwilson452]

Here in PA we have two muzzle loader seasons for whitetail. the first season you can use an inline. the later season is strictly flintlock/ matchlock.

[Gewehr98]

As my big mutt nicknamed "Snow Dog" sits at my feet, I thought this was kind of odd:

But to take out a "primative weapon"
that can take a deer out at 200 plus yards. scoped, and
all. well its wrong. just go buy a damn .308 and go
after your deer.

See this gun?



Here's another view:



A modern reproduction:


It's a Whitworth muzzleloader, as used by the Confederacy in the Civil War to great effect against Union troops. It's famous for it's almost unbelievable accuracy at long ranges, often out to 1000 yards. Primitive? Sure, and that includes the primitive Davidson brass-tubed scope. But let's not pretend that scoped blackpowder rifles capable of excellent accuracy are a recent invention.

[4V50 Gary]

If you're around Seymour, IN, go to the Cracker Barrel there and check out the gun over the fireplace (all Cracker Barrels have guns over the fireplace ). It's an antique inline with the hammer and nipple placed direcly in line with the barrel. I didn't remove it from the wall to examine it (should have asked).

BTW, Frederick the Great records shooting with a telescope equipped rifle in his diary. Artist turned militia lieutenant Charles Wilson Peale had instrument maker David Rittenhouse make a telescope rifle for him in the American Revolution. At least five Union sharpshooter companies had (some) telescope rifles with them when they served at the Siege of Yorktown during the Peninsula Campaign (1862).

[Tamara]

For those that hunt with both frontstuffers and bows: If you shoot a sidehammer gun, do you also use a recurve self-bow?

[Ryder]

You mean like these? http://www.bowsofwood.com/

I'd love to get one of those for Christmas!

I've used both types of bows. I owned the first Jennings compound model ever sold and I had shot bows for several years before that came out. I very much prefer the light weight quietness and simplicity of a longbow or recurve. I stuck plenty of critters and targets with both types. Never was into sights or releases, never used a carbon arrow. Some newfangled technology ain't all it's cracked up to be as there are tradeoffs I am not willing to make.

I believe there are logical limitations to how far retrotech can be taken on a case by case basis. For instance who among us would trade their current modem for one of the first models to hit the shelves?

[BluRidgDav]

Not Recurve, Tamara, but Longbow.
Matches up nicely with my Early Virginia Flintlock Longrifle.

BRD.

[Big Ruger]

I guess I also have mixed feelings on the subject. I started out hunting with a repro. kentucky rifle, and I always felt the difference is that sidehammer guys kill to have hunted and inline guys hunt to kill. Thats not a shot by any means just what I thought. Then two years ago my little bro decided to buy a ML, and came to me to see what I thought. I told him I would not buy an IL he then asked me if I thought that if Jed Smith or John Colter had access to a IL rifle over a SH gun would they use it? He had me I think they would have. Just my two cents. By the way I like this place you folks got here. I was cut adrift when Marlin quit theirs, so its nice to be here. E

[Bezoar]

many of the new sidelocks come with predrilled holes for scopes and many are coming with scopes already installed.

The only difference with a IL and a Sidelock is that the breech on an inline is designed to be removed without voiding any warranties and enables you to get a nice shine to the barrel without having to worry if theres any residue were the bore meets the breech plug.

And the trigger on my inline is horrible. The trigger moves 1 inch before it fires the gun.. two stage trigger?

[drinks]

Does anyone remember the "Harmonica"
caplocks of the 1860's to 1890's?
These were not only inlines, but repeaters, heaven forbid!
Very few new things around.
Some of us advanced age types need some help with sights, also , some of the old sights were very sorry, I have a 1900 made Win.'94 that has some of the worst sights I have ever lost sight of against a brush background, a real challenge to use and a very good chance of blowing a shot, or worse , hitting way too high or low.

Don

[faraway]

Yes, the Browning family made some. And often the harmonica's, superimposed loads, Colt's revolving rifles, and such were unintentional repeaters.
Due to that problem, not likely we'll see repros of these designs.
And that's why muzzleloading often is perceived as a primitive technology...much of the advances (or tech mistakes) are either very rare, or not being reproduced.
In lines, whatever, can't see any practical advantage over a 1850's-1860's rifled musket. Excepting the Sharp's that was the most advanced the historical stuff was, at least in general use.
Gods, I wonder what a state fish&game would make of a revolving, harmonica, or superposed load muzzle loader?

[drinks]

Faraway;
Texas P&W specifically rules out the revolving carbines and rifles on the grounds they are not muzzleloaders.

Don

[faraway]

Oh well, if I manage to acquire several thousand dollars, figure out how to use the thing without it flashfiring the cylinders, keep all my fingers intact...alas can't come to Texas with it. Mayhaps the law was meant to keep the Dragoon/Walker contingent off the deer?
But that still leaves the superimposed rifles...these are muzzleloaders, and often were unintentional rapid fire weapons. Scare every deer in the country, and the poor fool firing it...after the first shot.
And what about the Hall?

[drinks]

Faraway;
Surely, you would not use a variant of the 1200 yr. old technology of the Chinese "Roman Candle" against a "pore ol' deer"?

How non PC can you get?
Don

[faraway]

The deer, probably would be looking forward to the spectacle.
That said, I wonder what the state fish& game would do, if somebody turned up with a arbaquis, hande gonne/cannon, or the like? Including the early iron, lead, or stone projectiles...
Or a church bell with a very large arrow stuck in it...

[mpi]

i usually don't hunt with my matchlocks for the obvious reason, but have with my wheelocks. quite the challenge.
pat

[oconnell]

It dose not matter I have my values and somebody else has theres the new inlines are neat but they have no history to them they are modern guns H&R started the craze back abought 1968 with their muzzle loading 12 gauge Huntsman the first inline gun now 30 years later every body is copying it Well I like it all I was the first Kid on my street to have a 12 gauge H&R Huntsman way back in 1971 I basicly grew up with it I still have it I use it all the time Thats right target shoot hunt round ball shot it dose it all well I also hunt with a jap matchlock and a 14 th century Handgonne a repro of Morko hand gonne and brown bess all I can say is lets not bicker lets celebrate that so many people are enjoying the shooting sports

[4V50 Gary]

First, I don't care for modern in-lines. No "feel" to them for me. That woudln't stop me from using one though. At that point I'd look at it as a frontiersman would - it's a tool. As to historic precedents, the earliest in-line I know of was made from parts of a Hall breech-loader. Besides being ugly :barf:, it was hated by the Confederates who received them.

[getonit]

I am proud to say I shoot a Savage 10MLII "smokeless" muzzle loader- yes -it's an inline- and no I don't use it for just the muzzleloader season- here in Ohio its alsomy gun for the general gun season- the accuraccy and range tops the shotguns by far- I still like my sidelocks but the savage is my hunting gun- and it's one of the safest guns out there!

[beenthere]

Unfortunately a very large percentage of M/L shooters don't do much to try to foster interest in their concept of shooting. When I've tried to learn anything from most of them here, and where I lived in N.M their attitude was more like "Davy" learned without getting scalped and so did I. so go find out for yourself. It's no wonder many newcomers to blackpowder sought out something which was slightly more familiar to them to learn with. Many aren't farm boys who can learn out behind the barn. It takes an effort to find a place and time to acquire some measure of skill so they don't want to waste the time. In addition, the bad comments I've seen about "Spanish Barrels" in some posts turns most people away from the only entry level side-hammer styles they can afford and shifts them to the only other available firearms which happen to be in-lines.

[suthincomfort]

HERE in arkansas you have to wear a bright orange vest to deerhunt . sorta ruins it for those of us that'd like to hunt with buckskins etc. i just grab the possibles bag n orange crappy vest n go in whatever i'm in when going. all the camo in the world won't help when ya gotta wear orange.

[suthincomfort]

HERE in arkansas you have to wear a bright orange vest to deerhunt . sorta ruins it for those of us that'd like to hunt with buckskins etc. i just grab the possibles bag n orange crappy vest n go in whatever i'm in when going. all the camo in the world won't help when ya gotta wear orange.

[DonR101395]

I strongly disagree with PA Game Commission's decision to allow modern MLs during the early ML doe hunt. Folks hunting deer with bow or flintlock should enjoy the benefit of their own separate season with reduced blaze orange requirement. Scoped inline 209's with pellet driven sabots are legit 150-200 yard weapons. Take away the requirement to look for antlers, and you take away all the fun of wearing camo.

Does that mean that you should only be allowed to bow hunt with a long bow also? Just curious, because I've never heard much arguing amonst bow hunters who used compound bows vs long bows.

[Smokin_Gun]

Live and let live. Honestly, I could care less what the traditionalists think of my gun. I don't tell them how to live their lives, and I expect the same courtesy.

It's this kind of additude that kindles the feelings of Traditional(Real)Muzzleloader Hunters/Shooters to feel as they do towards In-Line Modern so called Muzzleloaders... I surely will extend the same courtesy that you just did.
I could care less about In-lines as long as they don't continue to screw up hunting and/or gun laws for the rest of us.

[Smokin_Gun]

I supose that if you wanted to get technical about it you could call my Cap & Ball revolvers Inlines of a sort, in which case then I do own a bunch of inlines. I shoot traditional style guns because I enjoy the sence of history in them.

Blastfamy!!! They ain't no such thing...LoL! They is Cap&Ball Revolvers is what they is Historically, Traditionally, and Actually Factually...HeHe!