M13 Links question

Machineguntony · July 13, 2014, 12:29 AM

I just made some belts using M13 links. Questions...

When feeding the ammo belt into an M60, does it matter which side is face up? Is the open side, in which you fit the round, supposed to face upwards or downwards, if it matter?

Also, how many times can I reuse these links? These are once fired.

Is there a danger/downside/problem to using worn out links?

JT-AR-MG42 · July 13, 2014, 01:46 AM

Not absolutely sure I am clear on the first question but I'll try anyway.
The belt on the 60 loads with the metal links up only.
Is that what you mean?
The cartridge is stripped from underneath. The gun could not feed them with the links down.

As to use, as long as you don't step on them

they are going to last a long time.
Eventually, a few can get a little weak on the extraction groove tab.
When that happens, the cartridge will slide forward or back in the links slightly and just stop the gun by hitting on the feedtray.
Even that usually only happens when the belt is bouncing and swinging around and has no support into the gun.

You will feel the weak links (no pun intended) when assembling the belts.

I have had that happen with a few brittle war2 8mm belts, so now I mostly use the NATO DM-1 belts made for the MG3/MAG.

Shrike owners are looking for the opposite. A way to loosen the links slightly in an effort to get them running consistently.
It is pretty hard to polish and buff the interior of the disintegrating links! LOL!

If anything, I found the M13 links a little stiff.
I bought and use the German improved NATO DM-6 links when shooting .308 with the proper top cover on my 42.

Here is a link for them you might check out.
http://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/DM...ER-17p2573.htm
Robert and his wife only sell the best.

They do link up much more smoothly and the starter tabs are handy.

JT

Theohazard · July 13, 2014, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machineguntony

When feeding the ammo belt into an M60, does it matter which side is face up? Is the open side, in which you fit the round, supposed to face upwards or downwards, if it matter?

Just remember "brass to the grass"; meaning the open side with the most brass showing is down towards the ground. It won't work the other way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machineguntony

Also, how many times can I reuse these links? These are once fired.

Is there a danger/downside/problem to using worn out links?

We rarely loaded our own belts, we just collected up our brass and links and turned them in. But I can't imagine a worn or over-used link would produce anything more than a stoppage.

Willie Lowman · July 13, 2014, 05:36 AM

I have re-used links in my MM 23E seven times so far. They don't seem as stiff to link up but they still hold together just fine. These are M27 links but they are pretty much the same as a M13 link but smaller

Machineguntony · July 13, 2014, 09:08 AM

Thanks, gents.

Willie Lowman · July 13, 2014, 06:55 PM

M60 related news

Great Machine has announced that they are making a 5.56 conversion for the M60.

Machineguntony · July 23, 2014, 09:54 PM

What are started tabs? Do I need them?

The lady on the phone said a lot of belt fed guys use them, but she couldn't explain the upsides and downsides of using the starter tabs.

What are the upsides to using a starter tab? If I don't use them, will it shorten the lifespan of the pulling mechanism?

What the heck is a starter tab?

http://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/M1...BS-14p2424.htm

Willie Lowman · July 23, 2014, 10:27 PM

Starter tabs are used by belt feds that feed through the side of the receiver like the HK 21 or the Stoner type belt fed AR-15. They are needed when there isn't easy access to the feed tray.

(image from http://www.rjmilitaria.com)

That is a belt of ammo with a starter tab. The gunner would fish the tab through the receiver to get the belt to the feed pawl.

You don't need starter tabs for your M60.

Machineguntony · July 23, 2014, 10:45 PM

Many thanks, Willie.

**44 AMP** · July 24, 2014, 12:09 PM

You see starter tabs most often on belts that are not disintegrating link. They are most useful in situation were you do not have room to fully open the feed cover (like the cramped conditions inside an armored vehicle, for one example).

You could use them on an M60 belt, but as far as I know, they are not a standard feature of the system.

There is a proper way to load each gun. And its different with the bolt forward, or the bolt back.

I once spent half a day trying to "fix" an M73 coax gun, which looked fine, in the shop, but "don't work" on the firing line (and that's all the help I got from the loader "It don't work"..,.

After the THIRD time he brought me the gun, saying "it don't work", and tearing it down to frame and checking everything, and not finding anything visibly wrong, I was a bit ticked. So, I said "show me!".

went to the track, mounted the gun, on the line, and watched as the loader loaded it. When they tried to fire it, it was jammed. "see! its f***ing broke!"... Then I loaded the gun, the right way, leaned on the manual trigger plate, and ran through the entire belt without a stoppage..
"Looks ok to me!" I told them. Insufficient Operator headspace.

Starter tabs can be useful, but most useful is knowing how to run your gun!

July 13, 2014, 12:29 AM	#1
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	M13 Links question I just made some belts using M13 links. Questions... When feeding the ammo belt into an M60, does it matter which side is face up? Is the open side, in which you fit the round, supposed to face upwards or downwards, if it matter? Also, how many times can I reuse these links? These are once fired. Is there a danger/downside/problem to using worn out links? __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

July 13, 2014, 09:08 AM	#5
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	Thanks, gents. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

July 23, 2014, 09:54 PM	#7
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	What are started tabs? Do I need them? The lady on the phone said a lot of belt fed guys use them, but she couldn't explain the upsides and downsides of using the starter tabs. What are the upsides to using a starter tab? If I don't use them, will it shorten the lifespan of the pulling mechanism? What the heck is a starter tab? http://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/M1...BS-14p2424.htm __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

July 23, 2014, 10:45 PM	#9
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	Many thanks, Willie. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

July 24, 2014, 12:09 PM	#10
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,839	You see starter tabs most often on belts that are not disintegrating link. They are most useful in situation were you do not have room to fully open the feed cover (like the cramped conditions inside an armored vehicle, for one example). You could use them on an M60 belt, but as far as I know, they are not a standard feature of the system. There is a proper way to load each gun. And its different with the bolt forward, or the bolt back. I once spent half a day trying to "fix" an M73 coax gun, which looked fine, in the shop, but "don't work" on the firing line (and that's all the help I got from the loader "It don't work"..,. After the THIRD time he brought me the gun, saying "it don't work", and tearing it down to frame and checking everything, and not finding anything visibly wrong, I was a bit ticked. So, I said "show me!". went to the track, mounted the gun, on the line, and watched as the loader loaded it. When they tried to fire it, it was jammed. "see! its f***ing broke!"... Then I loaded the gun, the right way, leaned on the manual trigger plate, and ran through the entire belt without a stoppage.. "Looks ok to me!" I told them. Insufficient Operator headspace. Starter tabs can be useful, but most useful is knowing how to run your gun! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 13, 2014, 01:46 AM	#2
JT-AR-MG42 Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Posts: 555	Not absolutely sure I am clear on the first question but I'll try anyway. The belt on the 60 loads with the metal links up only. Is that what you mean? The cartridge is stripped from underneath. The gun could not feed them with the links down. As to use, as long as you don't step on them they are going to last a long time. Eventually, a few can get a little weak on the extraction groove tab. When that happens, the cartridge will slide forward or back in the links slightly and just stop the gun by hitting on the feedtray. Even that usually only happens when the belt is bouncing and swinging around and has no support into the gun. You will feel the weak links (no pun intended) when assembling the belts. I have had that happen with a few brittle war2 8mm belts, so now I mostly use the NATO DM-1 belts made for the MG3/MAG. Shrike owners are looking for the opposite. A way to loosen the links slightly in an effort to get them running consistently. It is pretty hard to polish and buff the interior of the disintegrating links! LOL! If anything, I found the M13 links a little stiff. I bought and use the German improved NATO DM-6 links when shooting .308 with the proper top cover on my 42. Here is a link for them you might check out. http://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/DM...ER-17p2573.htm Robert and his wife only sell the best. They do link up much more smoothly and the starter tabs are handy. JT

July 13, 2014, 05:36 AM	#4
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	I have re-used links in my MM 23E seven times so far. They don't seem as stiff to link up but they still hold together just fine. These are M27 links but they are pretty much the same as a M13 link but smaller

July 13, 2014, 06:55 PM	#6
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	M60 related news Great Machine has announced that they are making a 5.56 conversion for the M60.

July 23, 2014, 10:27 PM	#8
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	Starter tabs are used by belt feds that feed through the side of the receiver like the HK 21 or the Stoner type belt fed AR-15. They are needed when there isn't easy access to the feed tray. (image from http://www.rjmilitaria.com) That is a belt of ammo with a starter tab. The gunner would fish the tab through the receiver to get the belt to the feed pawl. You don't need starter tabs for your M60.