hunting accuracy

[fisherman66]

Am I the only one confused by the quest for a sub MOA hunting rig? It's not that if find a super accurate rifle objectionable. I just don't think that should be the first criteria for a medium to large game hunter. Ease of handling seems much more important to me. I feel similarly about optics. A 3-9x40 is more than adequate for almost all hunters and a 2-7 or a 4x fixed might be a better choice. Are we handicapping ourself by falling into trends perpetuated by manufactures and gun rags geared to positively affect their bottom line?

[FirstFreedom]

Are we handicapping ourself by falling into trends perpetuated by manufactures and gun rags geared to positively affect their bottom line?

Yes, absolutely we are (on the whole as hunters). You are exactly right. Cracks me up when I see guys buying 6-20x scope for a hunting gun. A 3-9 or 4-12 makes sense for hunting the open plains/fields, but I like a 2-7 for an all-purpose hunter, or a 1-4/1.5-5ish for hunting in the woods. Accuracy; yeah; having an accurate gun (i.e. one that is 2 MOA instead of 4-5 MOA) can actually help you when you make an unrested long shot when hunting, so that your shooter error is not ADDED TO the gun error (although potentially it can work in your favor, if you shoot 2" low and the gun is off 2" high, for example), but as far as needing a 1 MOA rig instead of 2 MOA in a rifle, it's gonna be a very rare circumstance when that would actually help you, for large game anyway (ungulates, etc.), where there's a fairly large kill zone. Now, I suppose that if your *thang* is to take spine shots, then I can see insisting upon a rifle that shoots 1 MOA, but you'd better do your part too (use a solid field rest, etc.).

[Art Eatman]

I dunno how many times I've talked about the first priority (after doing the cartridge selection thing) is that whatever rifle you get fits your body.

Then you can buy more than the fixed 4X that's "need", and get into the category of "want".

After you haul it home, you THEN start worrying about sub-MOA games.

Very, very few rifles, NIB, WON'T shoot somewhere near one MOA right from the git-go. 1.5 MOA, anyhow.

The most important shot for a hunter is the first shot from a cold barrel. The deal is that that particular bullet always goes to the same place, today, as it did last week. Group size is informative, but once you've discovered that, yeah, it shoots inside of 1.5 MOA, everything else is mostly for fun and "want to".

, Art

[fisherman66]

Then you can buy more than the fixed 4X that's "need", and get into the category of "want".

Sometimes I think the "wants" run contrary to our "needs". A 6-18x50 scope can hurt our hunting performance in many ways, from the handling of the rifle for offhand shots to the reduced FOV and magnified hand tremors. A long action 26" varmint rig is not fun to still hunt with (speaking from experience).

[WeedWacker]

My dad and I have used a 6x for 200+ yard one shot kills. I think it's a 6x50 or somthing. The magnification doesn't take up too much light but the scope collects light making up for what is lost.

[fisherman66]

The exit pupil on a 3X on a 40mm would be pretty close (and perhaps slightly larger) than 6x50. I'm not suggesting large optics and super accurate rifles do not have their place in hunting. Pdogs, Ghogs ect. need a special type of rifle. Medium class game and larger do not under most conditions.

I too hunt in low light (sometimes in a draw that tends to fog) so I understand the need for light gathering. A low magnification on a standard 40mm makes more sense to me than a high power scope with a larger objective. I really like the 2-7 x 32mm-36mm as the exit pupil will still be in the optimal range.

[williamd]

f66 ... could not agree more. I use a 30-06 HVA carbine (20" bbl)with a 3x Weaver. Easy carry, quick to pick up target, no dicking around wit power settings, etc. I'd be guessing to say how many animals I have taken with this or simialr rig. Tried MANY but come back to basics.

When I go to shoot ground squirrels at 300 yds plus I use a fixed power 10x. Have little use for variable power scopes or magnum rifles. Both are North American fetishes.

[Fremmer]

Ease of handling seems much more important to me.

It is important but, IMHO, not as important as reliability, and that goes for the gun (goes bang every time at the right time and doesn't jam), and the scope (stays on zero).

A 3-9x40 is more than adequate for almost all hunters and a 2-7 or a 4x fixed might be a better choice.

I like the 3-9x40 for the choices, but in the field I always seem to have it set a 4x or at 7x (depending on the terrain). It just don't use the other settings much.

Here's another Thread on the Topic.

[2afreedom]

I get really tired of some benchrest shooters who think that you shouldn't hunt unless you shoot a hundred rounds every month into a quarter sized hole at 500 yards. While I do believe you should be able to make a humane shot on the game you are hunting at the distances you hunt this whole idea is ridiculous. Most of the shots I get at deer are between 40 and 100 yards. If I can take my 700 with open sights and put eight or ten shots into a 3 or 4 inch hole without a bench at 75 yards why would I need to shoot hundreds of rounds or buy the latest 12 power scope? If you feel the need for sniper accuracy that's fine with me but it's unfortunate that some bench shooters have such a "holier-than-thou" attitude when it comes to hunting and shooting. Not everyone has the time, money, or desire to get sub MOA accuracy out of their deer rifle and we should all respect each other's right to hunt as long as we do so ethically.

[Fremmer]

Not everyone has the time, money, or desire to get sub MOA accuracy out of their deer rifle

Not only that, 2af, but most can't shoot that well unless they are nice and relaxed and shooting from the bench at a paper target. Everything changes when you've gotta make a quick shot at a big deer from a not-so-gently-swaying-in-the-wind tree stand....

[kingudaroad]

I don't get to go hunting enough to fill my need for rifle shooting. So I end up at the range shooting paper. All my hunting rifles are super accurate and I still experiment with my reloads to make them more accurate. If I bought a gun that was not accurate, I would sell it.

Not because it's necessary,but because its fun and rewarding.

A 6-18x50 scope can hurt our hunting performance in many ways, from the handling of the rifle for offhand shots to the reduced FOV and magnified hand tremors.

A 6-18 variable scope and a 6x fixed scope have exactly the same magnification,FOV, and hand tremors if the variable scope is set on 6x. It is not a bad thing have the ability to zoom in.

I buy what I want and what I can afford as I'm sure everyone else does.

[fisherman66]

I buy what I want and what I can afford as I'm sure everyone else does.

I'm sure that's pretty standard. As long as what you want and what you need line up then you should be in pretty good shape.

You sound like a shooter that likes to hunt. A 6 power is limiting your ability to pick up close game on the hoof.

[srtrax]

I can remember not so long ago, when a 3x9x40mm scope was having the king of scopes in magnifaction. It was'nt that long ago that my 30/06 was in every issue of some mag. that i was over bored. Seems these wonder toys they make now days are factory made bench guns, just add a 15x25x75mm scope and your ready to kill at 600 yds.. In reality, i've killed just as many deer with open sighted 33/30 lever guns that fit and moved with you as if it was a part of your own body. Yes, eyes are getting tired and a little glass doesnt hurt these days, but down on the river bottem, where the stand sits i dont need a bunch of glass.And well i guess i'm not over bored any more, have not read that artical in a while, but she fits like a glove and fills a tag every year!

[Fat White Boy]

Shooting big game is not an exact science. If you can hit a pie plate at 100 yards, you should be able to bring down any ungulate, bear or wild pig in North America. Of course, everyone would like to make the perfect shot each time but it doesn't always happen. Find the rig you shoot best under the conditions you will be experiencing.

[fisherman66]

Yep, the more things change the more they remain the same. Oh, and the grey hair...

[WeedWacker]

Not to mention the ear hair and eybrows

[zeisloft]

Not trying to seem like the lone dissident, well I guess the King may be with me, but I hate to speak for others. Anyway…I would have to say the high power scopes and sum MOA rifles definitely have their place. Sure, pie plate at 100yds is good for 100 yd shots, but a pie plate at 500yds is needed for 500yd shots too. This is where the higher power scopes come in, additionally, sub MOA will allow it all to come together.
~z

[fisherman66]

zeisloft, I agree with your comments. They are particularly important on the West Texas plain. Further, I have only praise for a rifle capable of a 500 yard shot in the hands of a skilled rifleman. I draw issue with the green hunter thinking a sub-MOA rifle is needed with a scope of high magnification and a huge bell to make a 100 yard shot. It's impractical at best and handicapping at worse. I'm all for accepting a handicap as part of fair chase, but that's typically moving in another direction all together. I enjoy my heavy barrel rig at the bench, but it's another story in the field. I find myself reluctant to move around in the thick stuff as I am always watching the muzzle trying to keep it from hanging up on brush. It's heavy and while I like the heft, it doesn't swing well. I'm over magnified at it's lowest setting (4.5) when trying to pick up game moving quickly in cover. I'm changing my approach radically. Next hunting rifle will be 36" total OAL topped with a 2-7 or less. I hope it will shoot the tits off a flea, but I will accept a golf ball size group at 100. The mesquite thickets of near West Texas will never know the difference.

[2afreedom]

Another thing I have never been able to figure out is why so many people take shots at game at ranges past 200 yards. I have a friend who does this regularly and he has lost as many deer as I have ever killed. I have never lost one. Of course he also baits deer and hunts from a heated building. If you're going to hunt get out in the woods and hunt. Part of the enjoyment is stalking the prey and getting close enough to get a good shot. Leave the 400 yard shots to the varmit hunters.

[skeeter1]

A 3-9x40 is more than adequate for almost all hunters and a 2-7 or a 4x fixed might be a better choice.

I've got two scopes, a 3-9X32 and a 4X50. The 4X is definitly the better of the two. The 3-9 rarely gets set above 3X. The next one I'm going for is a 2-7X50. IMHO, that might be the best of both worlds.

[Fat White Boy]

Old age has made me depend on the quality optics available today. I wouldn't be able to hunt without them. I shot a coyote at 218 yards last year and before that a pig at about 225 yards. I use a 3X9X40. I shoot at 3X but I use the higher magnification for spotting. Old age is hell....

[jonutarr]

A 6-18 variable scope and a 6x fixed scope have exactly the same ...FOV,

Not true

Variables rarely have equal FOV

[ZeroJunk]

I like a 3 X 10 scope and 90% of the time I will have it on 10 power.Has nothing to do with what I need to kill the animal,but often there are small differences in antlers that effect my decision to shoot or not that I simply cannot see at low magnification.I also think that if you are having problems finding your target in the scope at any magnification you need to practice more with that rifle.If you can shoot a bird out of the air with a shotgun,surely you can put a rifle on target.Also,any equipment inaccuracy is added to your own shooting flaws,so the less the better.But,the difference between 1/2 inch and 1 1/2 inch is usually irrelevant.Now,I'll probably miss an artery by 1/2 an inch on the biggest buck in North America.

[Rembrandt]

For no more practice than they put into it, some hunters should trade their rifles for scatterguns. Too often they compensate for lack of range time with more precise equipment thinking one will offset the other.

[zeisloft]

Fish, I think we see eye to eye on this. I dont sill hunt with my long range rigs and I dont expect .3MOA out of my still hunt rigs. But one way or the other, I do expect sub MOA out of any or them. For the short range rifles I expect .75MOA from my load development. I generally use a high quality 3x9 that rarely leaves 5X. For the long range stuff, I like a 6.5x20.