9x18 Makarov

Firepower! · January 26, 2010, 05:31 PM

How effective is 9x18 Makarov round for SD? Have Russians ditched it for 9mm or do they still use it?

What are your experiences with it? I have a Stichken in this caliber and I really enjoy shooting it.

torpeau · January 26, 2010, 06:37 PM

You can get Russian HP ammo and Corbon Pow'RBall. 9x18 is more powerful than 9x17, so it's reasonably potent.
I think the Russians still use the cartridge.

Departed402 · January 26, 2010, 06:38 PM

Well thinking logically, plenty of people use .380 ACP (9x17mm) in various models, and are quite content with it for SD. The 9x18 you're talking about will work fine for SD (1 extra millimeter). However, if you'd would sleep better, and live a less stressful life knowing you have the extra millimeter, by all means go for the 9x19.

No one can guarantee that an extra millimeter will save your life, but I guarantee your mental health will be better for sure.

Doyle · January 26, 2010, 07:05 PM

Quote:

How effective is 9x18 Makarov round for SD? Have Russians ditched it for 9mm or do they still use it?

Thousands of people murdered by the KGB say yes, it's effective.

ohen cepel · January 26, 2010, 07:34 PM

It falls right in between the .380 and 9mm. Not so much a millimeter issue as a pressure difference. The Mak is loaded to a higher pressure and therefore is a little better than the .380 in comparable loadings.

It's a great cartridge for a small pistol and I wouldn't feel naked if that was what I was carrying. I really like the CZ-82, if I can't fix the problem with 13rds of 9mm Mak then I have big problems.

B. Lahey · January 26, 2010, 08:20 PM

The heavier Russian HP loads seem fairly impressive. Good penetration and some moderate expansion. Hornady seems to have wimped out a bit with their HP load resulting in fairly shallow penetration. The Russians still use it in handguns and SMGs as far as I know.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/var9x18mm.html

Lawyer Daggit · January 26, 2010, 09:08 PM

It is between a .380 and 9mm para.

Tom2 · January 26, 2010, 09:09 PM

I think is more of a police sidearm than military nowadays over there. But even they are probably upgrading as they can afford to do it, their bad guys are pretty bad and they need all the power they can lay hands on. Some hot .380 sort of overlaps the low end of Mak cartridge power, to blur the line between them. Probably just a case that the Russians did not want to adopt a capitalist pig cartridge, so made their own that was somewhat between a .380 and the obscure German cartridge that was experimental at the time, 9MM Ultra or something like that? Just call it a real hot .380 I guess.

EdInk · January 26, 2010, 09:28 PM

Like others have stated it falls between .380 (9x17) and 9mm Parabellum (9x19). There is some cross over in terms of high and low end ballistics with these 3 rounds. The big appeal of the Makarov is the you used to be able to buy decent guns chambered in it for dirt cheap and tons of surplus ammo to feed them. While you can still get the them for not alot, the prices are nowhere near the bargain basement price they were at a few years ago.

.380 is ridiculously hard to come by, theories for this are as numerous as there are people trying to find it. (I can always find a couple boxes of HP, just not the one I want, and reloaded range ammo is not hard to get either. Factory FMJ practice ammo you can forget about it.)

9x19 is now available pretty easily. If you can find
it at Walmart it's about $10 per 50rds fmj. Other places
it is about $15 for the same stuff. Not bad but annoying when you know you can get it cheaper. When Walmart is sold out of the cheap stuff, I buy it at the local gunstore. If I'm going to pay more than the cheapest price, at least it goes to local business.

EdInk · January 26, 2010, 09:40 PM

In terms of ccw there is no advantage to the round. You can get better guns in
9x19 and .380auto. Smaller guns are available in both calibers too. The appeal is that of the cold war and the dwindling supply of surplus ammo.

Don't expect to walk into a box store and find ammo for the Makarov. (Or anything besides .40s&w in abundance).

pelo801 · January 26, 2010, 09:46 PM

i think the mak round is a great SD round. go here http://www.brassfetcher.com/var9x18mm.html . see for yourself. i am not saying this is gospel or anything. but it will give you a pretty good idea. check out what the two hornandy bullets expanded to. but really look at what the silver bear HP did. also check out what the S&B FMJ did. i keep a cz82 in my truck at all times. and often i carry a p64, or a Bulgarian mak. and never feel under armed.

Deaf Smith · January 26, 2010, 10:14 PM

While I'm not a fan of the .380 or 9x18 for a primary SD gun it will do if you can shoot well.

I have Bulgie and EG, as well as Bersa 'Thunder' and Colt Government .380.

They all work very well and the Makarov's are quite good, better in sturdiness than the others (and about any other .380 I've ever handled or used.)

If I used the Makrov for SD, I would simply use ball unless I could get my hands on some good DPX. The ball round is almost pumpkin in roundness and ought to penetrate adequately but not too much. I actually like the ball round made by Fiocchi with a 95-Grain 1140 fps.

Quote:

Don't expect to walk into a box store and find ammo for the Makarov. (Or anything besides .40s&w in abundance)

Funny thing is .380 ammo cost well over TWICE as much as Mak ammo. How times have changed. You are more likely to fine Mak ammo than .380 to!

torpeau · January 26, 2010, 10:19 PM

Quote:

In terms of ccw there is no advantage to the round. You can get better guns in
9x19 and .380auto. Smaller guns are available in both calibers too. The appeal is that of the cold war and the dwindling supply of surplus ammo.

Of the 1000s of rounds of relatively inexpensive 9x18 I've bought, none was military surplus. There could be some available somewhere. Many of these 9x18 pistols are renowned for their reliability and durability Makarovs and P-64s for example.

raftman · January 27, 2010, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Have Russians ditched it for 9mm or do they still use it?

That answer to both questions is yes. In 2003, the Russian military adopted a new standard issue pistol to replace the Makarov. It's called the PYa Grach, and has an 18-round mag. This pistol is chambered for the Russian version of 9mm Parabellum, considerably hotter than the NATO variety. Of course, since the Makarov has been the standard issue pistol for something like 50 years, they're still everywhere and there are still large numbers of them in use while being phased out.

As far as the round goes, they've also designed a number of modern pistols chambered for 9x18, apparently largely for police use. So in all likelihood, they don't plan to completely ditch using that caliber in some way or another for quite some time.

BlueTrain · January 27, 2010, 06:53 AM

One source claims that Nagant revolvers are still being used by the some police in Russia and another equally unfounded claim states that .38 special revolvers are still to be found in use in the United States.

darkgael · January 27, 2010, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Russians did not want to adopt a capitalist pig cartridge

The Russians are capitalist pigs.

Quote:

You can get better guns ....

Don't know that I'd agree with that. The Makarov is a tough act to beat. But "better" means different things to all of us.
Pete

North Bender · January 27, 2010, 12:21 PM

Deaf Smith:

"I actually like the ball round made by Fiocchi with a 95-Grain 1140 fps."

What round is that? Of the 3 known commercial varieties of Fiocchi 9x18, labeled as "Made in Italy" (both 90-grain HP and 95-grain ball), "Made in Hungary" (95-grain ball), and "Made in the European Union" (95-grain ball which was probably Hungarian), I've never had any average over 1040 fps on my chronograph.

Edit to add: The old Cor-Bon 95-grain did travel 1135 fps. The current Cor-Bon, the 70-grain Pow'RBall, skoots along at 1350 fps.

Dain Bramage · January 27, 2010, 03:20 PM

If you do have a Stechkin APS, even with FMJ, rip a burst into someone and you'll do fine.

You're probably not talking about CCW either. The APS is a big pistol.

Departed402 · January 27, 2010, 08:58 PM

Quote:

another equally unfounded claim states that .38 special revolvers are still to be found in use in the United States.

I won't tell the people in the revolver section you said that

Anyway the Makarov gun itself is pretty awesome. I never thought so until I saw how awesome they are with their holsters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5H2GYOhKtM

Deaf Smith · January 27, 2010, 11:45 PM

North,

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/34164-5.html

And you will like Stephen Camps info on the Makarov.

http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...143-post1.html

and

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/OtherHandguns.htm

and this load I have but I don't like so much:

LVE Brown Bear 115-gr. JHP 1018 fps

You need Wolf Springs to keep from battering the gun up to much.

Doyle · January 28, 2010, 08:39 AM

People have mentioned the 115 grn bullets. From what research I have done, it seems that only the true Makarov pistols and the CZ-83 will shoot them well. The smaller framed 9x18 chambered pistols like the P-64, PA63, etc. don't do well at all with the heavier pills. They much prefer the 94/95 grn stuff. Every 9x18 I've ever had (and I've had 4) liked the Silver Bear 95gr HPs.

North Bender · January 28, 2010, 11:04 AM

Deaf Smith,

Shame on Cheaper than Dirt (or Fiocchi) for claiming that round goes 1140 fps!

I've corresponded with Steven Camp through the years. Nobody tells it straighter than that Texan. I love his work.

January 26, 2010, 05:31 PM	#1
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	9x18 Makarov How effective is 9x18 Makarov round for SD? Have Russians ditched it for 9mm or do they still use it? What are your experiences with it? I have a Stichken in this caliber and I really enjoy shooting it.

January 26, 2010, 06:38 PM	#3
Departed402 Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 884	Well thinking logically, plenty of people use .380 ACP (9x17mm) in various models, and are quite content with it for SD. The 9x18 you're talking about will work fine for SD (1 extra millimeter). However, if you'd would sleep better, and live a less stressful life knowing you have the extra millimeter, by all means go for the 9x19. No one can guarantee that an extra millimeter will save your life, but I guarantee your mental health will be better for sure. __________________ Slow is Smooth. Smooth is Fast. Last edited by Departed402; January 26, 2010 at 07:11 PM.

January 26, 2010, 07:34 PM	#5
ohen cepel Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 1999 Location: Where they send me Posts: 1,013	It falls right in between the .380 and 9mm. Not so much a millimeter issue as a pressure difference. The Mak is loaded to a higher pressure and therefore is a little better than the .380 in comparable loadings. It's a great cartridge for a small pistol and I wouldn't feel naked if that was what I was carrying. I really like the CZ-82, if I can't fix the problem with 13rds of 9mm Mak then I have big problems. __________________ He who dares wins. NRA Life Benefactor Member

January 26, 2010, 08:20 PM	#6
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,857	The heavier Russian HP loads seem fairly impressive. Good penetration and some moderate expansion. Hornady seems to have wimped out a bit with their HP load resulting in fairly shallow penetration. The Russians still use it in handguns and SMGs as far as I know. http://www.brassfetcher.com/var9x18mm.html __________________ "A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards." -George Orwell

January 26, 2010, 09:09 PM	#8
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	I think is more of a police sidearm than military nowadays over there. But even they are probably upgrading as they can afford to do it, their bad guys are pretty bad and they need all the power they can lay hands on. Some hot .380 sort of overlaps the low end of Mak cartridge power, to blur the line between them. Probably just a case that the Russians did not want to adopt a capitalist pig cartridge, so made their own that was somewhat between a .380 and the obscure German cartridge that was experimental at the time, 9MM Ultra or something like that? Just call it a real hot .380 I guess. __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

January 26, 2010, 06:37 PM	#2
torpeau Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2007 Location: Left coast of FL Posts: 434	You can get Russian HP ammo and Corbon Pow'RBall. 9x18 is more powerful than 9x17, so it's reasonably potent. I think the Russians still use the cartridge.

January 26, 2010, 09:08 PM	#7
Lawyer Daggit Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Posts: 1,181	It is between a .380 and 9mm para.

January 26, 2010, 09:28 PM	#9
EdInk Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2009 Posts: 3,968	Like others have stated it falls between .380 (9x17) and 9mm Parabellum (9x19). There is some cross over in terms of high and low end ballistics with these 3 rounds. The big appeal of the Makarov is the you used to be able to buy decent guns chambered in it for dirt cheap and tons of surplus ammo to feed them. While you can still get the them for not alot, the prices are nowhere near the bargain basement price they were at a few years ago. .380 is ridiculously hard to come by, theories for this are as numerous as there are people trying to find it. (I can always find a couple boxes of HP, just not the one I want, and reloaded range ammo is not hard to get either. Factory FMJ practice ammo you can forget about it.) 9x19 is now available pretty easily. If you can find it at Walmart it's about $10 per 50rds fmj. Other places it is about $15 for the same stuff. Not bad but annoying when you know you can get it cheaper. When Walmart is sold out of the cheap stuff, I buy it at the local gunstore. If I'm going to pay more than the cheapest price, at least it goes to local business. __________________ Sic Semper Tyrannis

January 26, 2010, 09:40 PM	#10
EdInk Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2009 Posts: 3,968	In terms of ccw there is no advantage to the round. You can get better guns in 9x19 and .380auto. Smaller guns are available in both calibers too. The appeal is that of the cold war and the dwindling supply of surplus ammo. Don't expect to walk into a box store and find ammo for the Makarov. (Or anything besides .40s&w in abundance). __________________ Sic Semper Tyrannis

January 26, 2010, 09:46 PM	#11
pelo801 Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2009 Posts: 718	i think the mak round is a great SD round. go here http://www.brassfetcher.com/var9x18mm.html . see for yourself. i am not saying this is gospel or anything. but it will give you a pretty good idea. check out what the two hornandy bullets expanded to. but really look at what the silver bear HP did. also check out what the S&B FMJ did. i keep a cz82 in my truck at all times. and often i carry a p64, or a Bulgarian mak. and never feel under armed.

January 27, 2010, 06:53 AM	#15
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	One source claims that Nagant revolvers are still being used by the some police in Russia and another equally unfounded claim states that .38 special revolvers are still to be found in use in the United States. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

January 27, 2010, 12:21 PM	#17
North Bender Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2006 Location: Washington State Posts: 145	Deaf Smith: "I actually like the ball round made by Fiocchi with a 95-Grain 1140 fps." What round is that? Of the 3 known commercial varieties of Fiocchi 9x18, labeled as "Made in Italy" (both 90-grain HP and 95-grain ball), "Made in Hungary" (95-grain ball), and "Made in the European Union" (95-grain ball which was probably Hungarian), I've never had any average over 1040 fps on my chronograph. Edit to add: The old Cor-Bon 95-grain did travel 1135 fps. The current Cor-Bon, the 70-grain Pow'RBall, skoots along at 1350 fps. Last edited by North Bender; January 27, 2010 at 12:33 PM.

January 27, 2010, 03:20 PM	#18
Dain Bramage Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2001 Location: Arlington, WA Posts: 219	If you do have a Stechkin APS, even with FMJ, rip a burst into someone and you'll do fine. You're probably not talking about CCW either. The APS is a big pistol.

January 27, 2010, 11:45 PM	#20
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 4,453	North, http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/34164-5.html And you will like Stephen Camps info on the Makarov. http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...143-post1.html and http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/OtherHandguns.htm and this load I have but I don't like so much: LVE Brown Bear 115-gr. JHP 1018 fps You need Wolf Springs to keep from battering the gun up to much. __________________ “To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

January 28, 2010, 08:39 AM	#21
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	People have mentioned the 115 grn bullets. From what research I have done, it seems that only the true Makarov pistols and the CZ-83 will shoot them well. The smaller framed 9x18 chambered pistols like the P-64, PA63, etc. don't do well at all with the heavier pills. They much prefer the 94/95 grn stuff. Every 9x18 I've ever had (and I've had 4) liked the Silver Bear 95gr HPs.

January 28, 2010, 11:04 AM	#22
North Bender Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2006 Location: Washington State Posts: 145	Deaf Smith, Shame on Cheaper than Dirt (or Fiocchi) for claiming that round goes 1140 fps! I've corresponded with Steven Camp through the years. Nobody tells it straighter than that Texan. I love his work.