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Old February 17, 2002, 01:18 AM   #101
D.W. Drang
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Just got an email from Dave Workman--staff editor for The New Gun Week and out-going NRA Director. He has been pursuing this story for a couple of days, and is working on an article for the next issue of Gun Week. At Dave's request, I won't go into even the paltry details he shared--I asked him up front if he would let me post his findings here, and he doesn't want to scoop himself, so to speak. (Part of the reason for the paltry details, though, was that the research is yet incomplete.)
Sounds like there's less here than meets the eye--Tucson is going to pay for the roof, for example. Sounds like most of the cops at the site were Gun People, too. Big problem is Eroh's health.
Stay Tuned.
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Old February 17, 2002, 02:32 AM   #102
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I'll be pleased as punch...

...if this turns out to be a false alarm.

Please let them just Do The Right Thing.
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Old February 17, 2002, 04:02 PM   #103
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Tear Gas Booby Traps Have Been Around For A Long Time.......

MO,

They used to be quite common accessories in safes and vault doors. A glass vial of the stuff was mounted behind the lock to defeat attempts to breech the safe by drilling the lock. Many deranged parnoind people like bankers and jewelers used these devices to protect their valuables. I even helped a friend who repaired safes remove one from the vault in the county courthouse.

Current versions of these devices can even include a dye so that the police can ID the burglar.

It's time we quit minding each other's business. Just because someone stored his guns in a manner other then you would have doesn't make him bad.

My guns are in a safe...In fact I'm building a vault room in my new house so everything can be in one spot and easier to organize. But that doesn't make me a better citizen then someone who keeps his guns in the closet or under the bed.

We are playing into the hands of the enemy when we pass judgement on how someone stores his property in his own home. Safe storage laws are but another step down the path to the end of RKBA. The ability to charge someone with a crime if someone accesses their guns is just the first step. Home inspection laws are next. Of course if the inspectors see some other contraband in plain sight while they are in the house to check the fire rating and capacity of your safe, then it's a legal search, because they were legally in the house to inspect the gun safe. So goodbye 4th amendment.

While they had a right to be in the house and an obligation to secure the man's property, they had no right to try him in the press by making some of the statements that they did. TPD is going to look pretty stupid if it's found that there was nothing illegal there.

Jeff
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Old February 17, 2002, 05:31 PM   #104
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Quote:
Tear Gas Booby Traps Have Been Around For A Long Time.......They used to be quite common accessories in safes and vault doors. A glass vial of the stuff was mounted behind the lock to defeat attempts to breech the safe by drilling the lock.
Apparently, this guy's tear gas booby traps involved hand grenades and trip wires. Contrary to popular belief, the majority of cops are NOT military veterans, and would not necessarily recognize the differance between a Frag and a smoke or gas greande, let alone what a blue tip on ordnance means. IOW, the first cop in the door saw a grenade witha trip wire and fell over herself going back out. Understandably.
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Old February 17, 2002, 08:42 PM   #105
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I'm well aware of how few peace officers have military experience these days. On my small dept. out of 23 sworn officers there are three of us who have ever been in the military. This is endemic through all parts of our society and is an inevitable byproduct of the 28 years of an all volunteer military. But that's not the issue here and the fact that an officer with no miiitary experience backed away from a tripwire and was unable to ID inert training ordnance is not an issue either.

TPD had every right to enter the open house on the complaint that was called in by the EMS people. They had a duty and obligation to investigate what they found in the house.

BUT THEY HAD NO RIGHT TO TRY THIS MAN IN THE PRESS It's this sort of irresponsible pandering to the press in an attempt to gain favorable public opinion or curry favor with certain political factions in the local government that is driving a wedge between law enforcement and gun owners. I don't have any idea what TPDs policy on press releases is, but if what was said is within the purview of their policy manual then it's time for a re-write.

If the booby traps were CS grenades, there is the possibility that they were illegal. I believe the Feds consider the M25 type bursting munition a destructive device. Any burning type grenade would probably not be readily available to the public and it might be a reasonable assumtion that it was stolen military property. A quick check of the lot number would confirm that. But if they were the aerosol type that is available "over the counter" so to speak, then there is no violation.

I think what we have here is an eccentric old man who collected firearms and militaria who had the misfortune to stumble from his home in a state of undress while he was having a medical emergency. Now thanks to the media's need to sensationalize a story and TPDs need to tell everyone how they have just saved the Southwest from the biggest threat since the apaches quit raiding from the mountains this mans life in his chosen community is ruined. And as an unintended consequence, 1000s of lawful firearms owners have another reason to fear and loathe their employees.

Jeff
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Old March 19, 2002, 08:47 PM   #106
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It's been almost a month, what's up with this case? Is the guy OK? Charges pressed?
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Old March 20, 2002, 09:12 PM   #107
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I don't exactly read the paper every day, but I havn't heard a peep about it. I'll try searching the online archives, but I'd be surprised if anyone in the media cares any more.
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Old March 20, 2002, 09:19 PM   #108
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News archives show nothing more than we have linked here. I emailed a local news radio station. I'll keep y'all posted...
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Old March 21, 2002, 10:06 PM   #109
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By jove I think Jeffrey nailed it!

Folks I have emailed member Joe to see if he can get us some updated information and asked him to post it for us. Jeff, you nailed it like it was in my book, course, those people will never admit they overreacted. I sure hope the old feller gets better.


Hey, have I told you TFLer's to CALL GEORGE! Not that it will accomplish much but we can always hope. CFR is not reform, it's power.
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Old April 8, 2002, 03:55 PM   #110
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Well Folks,

Here is the results of this entire tragic situation. ALL CHARGES HAVE BEEN DROPPED AND HIS PROPERTY HAS BEEN RETURNED TO HIM! The cops did keep one or two items like the motor round. It has been reported in the newspaper on Friday. I'm posting this from work and don't have access to all the details. But good news for us.

To everyone who expressed concern, wrote letters to the politicos and police, a big thank you. Chlk one up for the good guys on this one.
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Old April 8, 2002, 04:09 PM   #111
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Hoorah!!!
Either some honestly friendly police or pressure from us.

Keeping the mortar rounds is OK and the way it should have been handled. If you found some 6yr olds playing with cherry bombs, you wouldn't beat the hell out of them, you would confiscate them and go play with them yourself...

I'm sure that if he was previously skirting the law a little, he won't anymore. A simple admonishment and all is well.
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Old April 8, 2002, 04:10 PM   #112
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Well Folks,

I wished I could have gotten on this faster, but I was out of town due to a death in the family. I just spoke to my NRA to ask whatthe status on this situation is. Here is what I was told concerning the results of this tragic situation. ALL CHARGES HAVE BEEN DROPPED AND HIS PROPERTY HAS BEEN RETURNED TO HIM! The cops did keep one or two questionable items like the motor rounds. It was reported in the newspaper on Friday that I haven't been able to get at. I'm posting this from work and don't have access to all the details. But good news for us.

To everyone who expressed concern, wrote letters to the politicos and police, a big thank you. Chalk one up for the good guys on this one. There still is justice in America!
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Old April 9, 2002, 08:41 AM   #113
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Has there been any word as to whether or not they are going to repair this guy's property?
They did a lot of damage there including cutting a gaping hole in his roof.
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Old September 26, 2002, 12:16 AM   #114
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Bump to the top.
Does anyone have updates to the condition of Eroh and the rest of the case?

Also, for what it's worth,
I posted this discussion thread as an example of local government run amuck over on the Free State Project web site.
http://www.freestateproject.org/local.htm
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