The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 7, 2000, 10:25 PM   #1
Cliff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 19, 1999
Location: Saranap, CA
Posts: 473
I would like to hear that this article is a crock of crap and that he is over stating the case. At least, I HOPE he is!

Cliff

---- http://www.fredoneverything.net/DontEnlist.html

Uncle Sam Wants You

If You're Smart, You Don't Want Him

f you are the parent of a young man who is thinking about joining the armed forces, permit me
to offer advice:

Tell him not to. Be emphatic about it.

I've spent much of my life around the military--grew up on a military base, drove AMTRACS for
the Marines in Viet Nam, and spent decades covering the military as a reporter. I didn't do the
Pentagon. Usually I didn't know who the Joint Chiefs of Staff were. I spent my working hours
with the troops, in the tanks and fighters, aboard the carriers, in the jungles and swamps and war
zones. It made me hard to bull****.

An observation: The armed services are today in the worst shape I've seen, and I remember the
days of the post-Viet Nam slump. You don't want your kid in this military.

You don't understand how bad it is.

This country characteristically goes into wars unprepared, and kills off large numbers of young
men while trying to make up lost time. We then tell ourselves stories about the heroism of the
needlessly dead, and about the evil Nips and dastardly Viet Cong. We did this in WWII, Korea,
and Viet Nam. We're getting ready to do it again. The military has decayed since the Gulf War,
decayed badly. The public just doesn't know it. If a substantial war comes, soldiers will, again,
die for no reason. Your son could be one of them.

He needs to know this. He also needs to understand that neither the political nor the military
leadership much cares whether he lives or dies. Their careers come first. You doubtless think
this sounds extreme, embittered, paranoid. And yes, any general officer will tell you that, why,
he lives for the troops, cares for nothing else. He's a soldier's general.

Yeah.

In Vietnam, it was for some time military policy that enlisted men in the infantry spent 13 months
in the field. Their officers spent six. If you don't believe this, check it out. The officers were
getting their tickets punched: Combat command looked good on a promotion record. The
Career. On the other hand, if you stayed out there too long, you might get shot. The fleshpots of
Saigon were succulent. The consequence of course was that field troops always had green,
inexperienced officers.

There were too many ticket-punchers. Officers who won't take the same risks their troops take
are. . .I think the word is "cowards."

Guess what generation of officers is now reaching the top at the Pentagon. You don't want this
crew commanding your kid.

Further, note that the United States regularly, with the occasional exception, puts politics ahead
of the lives of its troops. Remember the 241 Marines killed in Beirut when their barracks was
blown up by the terrorist truck? I was there on a story a couple of weeks before it happened.
Know who killed those guys?

The United States.

It went like this. Coming down the road from the airport in Beirut, to get to the Marines you
turned right on a small road that had a guard post with two Marine guards. Their rifles were at
sling arms, no round in the chamber. Loaded rifles might cause an incident, and, hey, you can
always get more Marines. Simply driving past the guards would have been--as it turned out,
was--effortless.

A few feet later you turned right through one of those flimsy stick things that go up and down to
stop traffic at toll booths. I probably could have broken through it without a truck. A few feet
later you were in the middle of the Marine position.

Which is what the driver of the suicide truck did. Easy.

The Marines were undefended, naked, in a city known to be full of terrorists. Why? Because the
State Department didn't want to look too military. We sacrificed our own men to keep up
appearances for a pack of cookie-pushers in Washington.

They'll do it again.

The foregoing is the norm. (We did the same thing in Mogadishu, for example.) Today
politicization of the military is worse by far than it has ever been. The emphasis is
overwhelmingly on social engineering: sensitivity training, toleration of homosexuals,
feminization, promotion of minorities. Affirmative action runs rampant. Standards have been
lowered drastically for women, many of them unmarried minorities using the military as an
improved form of welfare. Discipline has suffered. Commanders can't discipline the protected
groups, which makes it hard to discipline anyone.

If you think I'm kidding, talk to someone you know who is in.

Unsurprisingly, morale is way down. Equipment ages. The services are hemorrhaging young
officers in the O-3 range (Army captain). Key enlisted men bail out. Second-raters move up the
ranks. No, not all of them are, but too many. In war, there will be a price for this. Your boy, or
someone else's. Getting the body bag isn't fun.

For eight years we have had an administration that is actually hostile to the military. This is new.
Before, presidents have alternated between neglect and build-up, but haven't had the visceral
loathing for the armed services that Clinton has professed. To me, the damage looks deliberate.
Nothing like the current wholesale gutting of the services by angry feminists has happened
before. We have never had a government that would have allowed it.

The generals know all of this. They're self-serving, but they aren't fools. They are knowingly,
willingly, allowing the institutions they oversee to deteriorate, while relentlessly lying to stay in
their jobs. (The Marines remain stubbornly resistant, but they too are being slowly Clintoned
down.) The brass know their troops regard them with contempt. They know why soldiers bail out.
They don't care. Commanders like this--I don't think they can be called men--will preside over a
slaughter if war comes.

You don't want your kid there. Especially if he is smart and gung-ho. If he just wants to get
saleable training, and get out, the services are probably a good idea. Electronics is always a
good choice. The military is a good place for a woman who wants to have her baby and isn't sure
which division is the father. But for a young man who wants to be part of something he can be
proud of, a hard-charger who sets high standards for himself, it's a bad idea. He'll hate it. It will
hate him. Should we ever need the military, it just might kill him. Don't let him do it.

Note: For the skeptical, The Kinder, Gentler Military, by Stephanie Gutmann, superbly details
the disaster. Nobody should enlist without reading it. Amazon has it.

©Fred Reed 2000. All rights reserved.
www.FredOnEverything.com

[This message has been edited by Cliff (edited September 07, 2000).]
Cliff is offline  
Old September 7, 2000, 10:33 PM   #2
Ed Brunner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 1998
Location: Natchez, MS, USA
Posts: 2,562
From what I hear, he is right on the money and it is sad, isn't it ?

------------------
You have to be there when it's all over. Otherwise you can't say "I told you so."

Better days to be,

Ed
Ed Brunner is offline  
Old September 7, 2000, 10:38 PM   #3
Dead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 5, 2000
Location: AoW Land, USA
Posts: 1,968
War is pointless sometimes! Yet at other times it is the ONLY possible reaction.

------------------
Dead [Black Ops]
Dead is offline  
Old September 7, 2000, 11:24 PM   #4
EchoFiveMike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2000
Posts: 416
Sad to say, he's pretty much right on. There are not very many officers above the rank of colonel that are worth a bucket of warm spit. They all run off to the defense industry after they retire. That's why we have all this money spent on techno BS and I have a rifle made in 1968. Semper Fi...Ken
EchoFiveMike is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 12:08 AM   #5
C.R.Sam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 29, 1999
Location: Dewey, AZ
Posts: 12,858
Sad but true.
C.R.Sam is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 12:21 AM   #6
L-Frame
Member
 
Join Date: July 10, 2000
Posts: 86
Thats why we need a UN army. We will need help on the streets of America one day and the UN will be there to help us. Our future is a bright one under the protection of the UN and its leader W.J. Klintoon.
L-Frame is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 02:50 AM   #7
Dangus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 4, 2000
Location: IA
Posts: 1,907
All hail the UN, and the high emperor Bill Klinton!

------------------
The Alcove

I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
Dangus is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 03:01 AM   #8
bart
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 4, 2000
Posts: 9
last time i was on a range was 1987, does that tell you anything?
bart is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 03:39 AM   #9
oberkommando
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 1999
Posts: 1,158
L Frame, I heard that!

The emphasis is
overwhelmingly on social engineering: sensitivity training, toleration of homosexuals,
feminization, promotion of minorities. Affirmative action runs rampant. Standards have been
lowered drastically for women, many of them unmarried minorities using the military as an
improved form of welfare. Discipline has suffered. Commanders can't discipline the protected
groups, which makes it hard to discipline anyone.

Sounds like the things I've heard from others.
oberkommando is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 04:31 AM   #10
smitty21
Member
 
Join Date: August 3, 2000
Location: Hampton, Va.
Posts: 93
I hate to say this, but it is people like him who make me sick. I am in the military now, have been for about 3 1/2 years and just signed on for 6 more. Everyone I know is hard working, I work anywhere from 8 to 14 hours a day. Do I see overtime, NO. Do I see time and a half on weekends or holidays, NO. Does he get deployed to some hell hole for 90 to 120 days and sleep, eat, work, and shower in tents? And do this for about anywhere from 180 to 280 days a year? Yeah there are leaders who will not take risks, but they get weeded out in a couple years. Yeah every once and while you got to bend over and take it.
Sometimes we mess up, but everyone makes mistakes. All I am saying is, we are out there 24/7/365, busting our humps to preserve our nation and the way we live. Some of the things we do is not right, but sometimes it is the only solution and I have no say in the decisions the policy makers make. I don't know about him but I take pride in what I do and the uniform I wear. I know many have wore it before me and gave there life for it.

[This message has been edited by smitty21 (edited September 08, 2000).]
smitty21 is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 05:30 AM   #11
Keiller TN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 18, 2000
Posts: 483
My older son is getting out of the Navy next year after he has served 6 years. I don't see how the military can keep people.

------------------
"Unless the Lord builds the house, they labour in vain that build it:
except the Lord guards the city, the watchman stays awake in vain." (Psalm 127:1)


"Freedom is given to the human conditionally, in the assumption of his constant religious responsibility."
(Alexander Solzhenitzyn)
Keiller TN is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 06:29 AM   #12
DannyO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2000
Posts: 143
Most of the guys I know got out after 1 hitch. It's just not worth the bull. Those that tried a 2nd hitch got out after that. I was told about the good old days when you had senior NCO's going to bat for you or your Capt fighting to get what you need but all I saw were NCO's & officers writing up anyone and ruining young military careers before they could even start. I saw officers that would not stand up for what was right because it wasn't PC or wouldn't help them get the next rank.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Marines and the guys I served with were great but the "upper managment" really sucked. We need more officers like Col. Hackworth and Chesty Puller... but you see what happens to people who call it like they see it and do the right thing. They end up being forced out by all the REMF's.

My dad was a Marine, that is why I joined. Will I encourage my son to do the same? I don't know. It doesn't seem like the same place anymore.

For all those on active duty still out there in the trenches it's not you I'm talking about. You are the reason the Military has not completly failed. Keep the faith and keep pushing your command staff to do the right thing.Deep down they know what it is they just need to be reminded.

------------------
"Some people spend an entire liftime wondering if they made a difference. Marines don't have that problem."
Semper Fi
DannyO is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 07:37 AM   #13
mk86fcc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 1, 1999
Location: NE Florida
Posts: 629
Overstating the case? Hmmm. Maybe, but not by much.

------------------
"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
"Power corrupts. Absolute power - is kinda cool!"
Fred Reed
mk86fcc is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 07:46 AM   #14
big89foot
Member
 
Join Date: April 25, 2000
Location: Pensacola, Fl
Posts: 54
Anyone else notice the pattern that historically has taken place in the military of many countries once war starts? The high brass, that obtained their positions during peace, is soon replaced with leaders that can fight a war. During peace, officers that can "play the game" and be the best "butt sharks" are promoted, but after a few rude awakenings they are soon replaced with real soldiers from the lower ranks. It has happened over and over again. I liked the "test" that one retired soldier told me he always used to judge an officer ... he would ask himself "would I follow this man into combat?" Today, the answer is too often "NO"
big89foot is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 08:08 AM   #15
HukeOKC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2000
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 347
smitty21, I think you need to read this again and not look at it as a slam on the military and it's enlisted. I look at this story as a Veteran of over 7 years service who got out because of the very things he is talking about. He is in NO way telling you to not be proud of what you are doing. He is trying to help you. He is a journalist that is friendly to the military and it's current problems, and that is what you need these days. If you don't have low morale in your unit, then you need to go thank your Commander. He has sheltered you from what the current Administration has in store for you and your brothers and sisters in the service. I read this story and was thinking, Thank God it is in print somewhere and will get someone's attention. This guy is a Vietnam Veteran. He knows what you do. He has "been there, done that". Look around you, what he said about minorities is true. Look at your upper echelon of command. Granted, there was a period when it was a majority of whites. But now things are different. Now you can be an outstanding soldier but you will wait in line for promotion boards and schools while the minoritys get first dibs. There ARE quotas. I had an E-8 who worked on the promotion boards for the senior enlisted soldiers. He was on the boards that actually reviewed the soldiers files and selected them for promotion to the senior enlisted ranks. He told us flat out, that if a white male soldier was better than a minority soldier, but they hadn't met their quota, that they would give the promotion to the minority to meat the quota. My heart sank. That was one of the final straws. I had always thought that once you got to that point that quotas wouldn't matter. I was wrong. Trust me, this guy is on your side. And unfortunatley, he is right on most things. I do think we have enough vets and real Americans who would "ruck up" if TSHTF. And I know we have superior equipment to our enemys. But there will be a huge loss on our side of soldiers who didn't take their training seriously or recieve the proper training and discipline. They will be the ones you zip up in a bag to go back home. Those who try hard and make the most of their military training will be hurt and killed because of some of these soldiers too, because that other guy was supposed to be covering their back. Sorry for the length but I want people to know that this story is right on, and we need to do something about it.
HukeOKC is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 09:44 AM   #16
ohen cepel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 1999
Location: Where they send me
Posts: 1,013
We are in a very sad state.

I recently realized this when I recently had to advise a soldier to leave the Army.
In good faith, I could not tell this bright motivated person to stay in the service. I could not compromise my integrity and lie to them.

Our senior leaders are too far gone. They don't know what is going on and are trying to fix the current situation by having more freaking meetings. They have the "F you, I got mine attitude".

I could go on for days but won't.


------------------
He who dares wins.
NRA Life Memeber
ohen cepel is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 11:16 AM   #17
kjm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 1999
Location: College Station, Texas
Posts: 1,871
I joined up in 1989. Had fun at Fort Bragg, and spent a little time just about every-where. I wanted to be close to home at Ft. Hood, and found that the Army doesn't like losing paratroopers from its airborne division, so my choices were stay with the 319th AFAR, or Korea then back to the 319th, or get out. I got out. I reenlisted through a recruiter who got me Ft. Hood where I discovered the REAL Army. Senior NCO's who care more for careers than they do about soldiers. Low-speed, high-drag training where cliques rule, and morale sucks. Most officers were pretty good O-3 and below, as were almost all E-6's and below. The Colonels and above were pathetic. Morale just sucks in the real Army.
If my son wants to join, I think the best advice is to go to a place like the Rangers, or at a minimum go to the 82nd where budgets are less likely to be cut, and training stays realistic by those who have seen something other than an FTX.
It seemed at Ft. Hood, most folks saw my 82nd patch on my right shoulder as a threat, and treated me accordingly. I somehow was able to win III Corps soldier of the quarter, but my direct supervisor would not let me go to the E-5 board. I was able to get out of his section, and had to plot and scheme but eventually went to the board where I became the only person in my new unit to ever score a perfect 200 points. This kinda crap would've never happened at Ft. Bragg (at least I hope it hasn't become so crappy there).
If you know of a young man wanting to join the military, I suggest that they only consider a high-speed unit. The more elite, the more fun the training. Rangers don't get their training budgets cut because chances are, if you spend 6 years as a Ranger, you WILL see combat. They know this, and so they train hard, and have fun. I wouldn't EVER advise someone to join the Army and go to a regular unit like 1st Cav, or the 101st.
Just my opinion after 9 years in.
kjm is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 11:23 AM   #18
Dennis
Staff Emeritus
 
Join Date: November 23, 1998
Location: a small forest in Texas
Posts: 7,079
In 1978, shortly after I put in my retirement papers, I spoke with our
two-star Commanding General. He asked me why I wanted to retire. He
noted that I had briefed one- and two-star generals and their staffs, made
good impressions (except, “You’re a bit “hard-a$$ed with your comments”),
and was on a “fast track” for two promotions which would take me to E-9.

I explained that I had lost faith in the Air Force. Of all the officers I had met,
very few were military men. The hundreds of others were “careerists”. If, at
any time, they gave more than lip service to the mission of the Air Force, it
was because mere chance had made that tiny slice of our mission congruent
with their career goals.

The General was an exception and I told him so. He was a combat-proven
pilot. He was one of the few unit commanders who (on his way up) actually
flew intelligence-collection missions for his unit.

He asked me what would happen in time of war with most of the officers
under his command. I answered one of two things would happen. Either
these careerists would lose their entire units (by sacrificing them or
surrendering) or the commanders would die “heroic” deaths by friendly fire
(from some of their subordinate combat veterans).

The General was startled and asked if I had ever met an officer that I liked. I
answered I knew of four whom I would trust:
- The Air Force Lt. Col. who (as a Major) was my unit commander in Berlin
when the Berlin wall was erected.
- The Army Lt. Col. who (as a Major) was the Area Commander in Germany
on my last overseas tour.
- The Captain in our office who was an overhead photography interpreter.
- The Air Force Lt. Col. who was my (then) current OIC (with whom I still go
shooting from time to time, 22 years after this conversation!).

The General was taken aback, “Just those four?”
I added, “Well, probably ANY Marine officer....”

He finally relaxed some and actually laughed, “So there’s your
problem, Sarge! You joined the wrong service!”

“Could be, General!” I smiled. “Could be.”
-----

Most of the officers I met were desk jockeys. Their word was as good as the
promises we made to the Indians. I’m sure many were honest, from time to
time, but integrity and honesty were unwanted stepchildren compared to the
obsequious sycophancy of the lackeys whose primary goal was their
individual careers.

At that time, the epidemic of “careerism” had infected most of the Senior
NCO ranks and was working down the chains of command with appalling and
increasing speed.

I see no reason to believe anything has improved since June 1, 1979.
Dennis is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 11:38 AM   #19
stuckatwork
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 3, 2000
Posts: 217
It has been many years since I wore the uniform. But what I'm hearing from kids I know that are in scares me. One of mybuddies sons told me about his "stress card". That is a card you hold up whenyou feel you are being over stressed by the Drill Sgt. And upon seeing the card, the Sgt. is supposedto leave you alone for a time. If I whipped outa stress card when I was in basic, AIT or jump school, I would have had it surgically removed from my colon.

The primary mission of the military is to kill the enemies of the Country and break their things. Has someone forgot this? A soldier needs to be a warrior, with a warrior mentality. I do have mixed feelings about women in the military. The ladies can fight in a military organization, the Isrealis proved that. But our society hold women toentirely different standards and this shows in the training.

I really don't know where to go with this. It is just more sickening cr*p that was result of eight years of the worst presidency this country has ever seen.

I am worried about our military people. So far we have been lucky, we have not needed to send them into a real knock-down -drag out fight with a country that has the real will to resist. If we do before the military gets straighten out God help us.

AIRBORNE! ALL THE WAY!




------------------
You can find the price of freedom, buried in the ground.
stuckatwork is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 12:04 PM   #20
leedesert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 1999
Location: Ga
Posts: 633
I've been in 19 years now and sadly it's all true. The military always moves in up down cycles. It's strength and numbers peak and then a slow decline starts until something goes wrong in the world. Then it takes a quick clime up and the whole cycle starts again. The Reagen erra was our peak and right now we are in the bottom of the dip. With a new administration and a major crissis for justification we will shoot back up.
Right now we always have to get money for maintenance. We go TDY constantly to baby sit other countries. We are under paid and over worked. The higher ups are politically motivated and career minded. There are still a few good ones out there but most our focussing on the career.
Morale is way down.
I remember a time when pride and espirit de corp was high. Now it's just another 9-5 job. Nobody cares and everyone is tired. It's gotten to where we called desert storm a war. That wasn't a war, it was a take over. A necessary one but still, a take over.

Hopefully a new administration will start the swing back.

------------------
"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16
NRA lifer
GOA
GSSF
KABA
leedesert is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 01:13 PM   #21
HukeOKC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2000
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 347
stuckatwork, YES!! Those "stress cards" will be a major contributor to the downfall of our military. There is not a soldier in any other country that we fight against that will honor that stupid thing. The whole point of basic, I thought, was to weed out the dead that couldn't handle the stress of a combat type situation. If you can't handle basic without a stress card, then you will certainly have problems with bullets buzzing you.

My last Platoon Sgt was an ex-drill and said that the Drill Sgts today have been told to let them all go through no matter what. Even the suicidal ones. No matter how good or bad they do in basic, they still are passed so that they can go to a Unit. These soldiers show up with one thing in mind, getting out. And the Units waste their time on them by trying to fix them and make soldiers out of them. These people don't want to be soldiers!! It is unbelievable.
HukeOKC is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 01:49 PM   #22
mussi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2000
Location: Berne, Switzerland
Posts: 757
Stress Cards? If anybody has one of them and shows it while I'm
responsible for his 'well-being' (in the Marine sense of things),
I'll have him compete in push-ups against me. Every morning, even out
of the army, I do 100, in the evening 150 for my workout. My record is
325 in ten minutes.

God ever hopes I never get a platoon of these wimps under my command.
They'd be dead a week later. Morning gym includes 100 push-ups, 100
sit-ups and some more-than-evil excercises. Then they go to shower,
and only then, it's Breakfast time. You can get these do-no-goods
moving their behind real fast. Believe me.

Once I had US visitors in Colombier and they asked me wether I trained
a special unit. I just told them I was a friggin' mud-hopper.

(Actually, when I had to command a platoon during a recruit school, I
sent away 7 recruits (three of them went to other services like
artillery) and kept 29. I even got the proposal to stay in military as
professional instructor - I didn't want to at that time since I had a
vivilian job).
mussi is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 01:49 PM   #23
Ed Brunner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 1998
Location: Natchez, MS, USA
Posts: 2,562
A stress card apparently is sort of like an instant TS ticket. Still I find it incredible that they could exist in the military. In marriage maybe, but not the military.

------------------
You have to be there when it's all over. Otherwise you can't say "I told you so."

Better days to be,

Ed
Ed Brunner is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 02:14 PM   #24
Rob62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 28, 1999
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 560
As best as I can find out, the "Stress Cards" (if they in fact were ever in existance and not an urban myth) were only tested and are not currently in use at any training installations.

One of the major US Military training installations (Ft Leonard Wood, MO) does not use them, nor has anyone here ever seen them or heard of them.

Rob

RKBA!

------------------
It's amazing what a large group of stupid people can accomplish.
-----------------
Rob62 is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 06:49 PM   #25
smitty21
Member
 
Join Date: August 3, 2000
Location: Hampton, Va.
Posts: 93
HukeOKC, I know he was not trying to slam the military. Its just that I get heated when people start talking about the military. As for my squadron, we went through bad times, but our commander was forced to retire after about a year of command. Now we have 2 females running the place, and it is getting a lot better, they are laying the law down, but we still have a couple spineless upper management SOB's. As for taking the job serious, in my career field, if you don't take your job serious you are weeded out to some detail that is stupid like facility manager or something. We are responsible for the lives of US/Coalition pilots and ground crews and I know of some people who have not done their job right and were sent to those positions.
As for stress cards, never heard of or saw them.
Sorry for coming off on the wrong foot.
smitty21 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.09570 seconds with 10 queries