Long Range/Precision Bolt Rifles Anyone?

[madmax700]

Hello everyone, long time reader but new member and first time poster here!

I'm getting into the precision rifle scene as of quite recently. I have hunted all of my life, mainly for Whitetail Deer in Northern MN. My rifle of choice has always been my Savage 110 in .270 Win. However, I shot my dad's Ruger Hawkeye .308 for the first time recently, and immediately wanted a .308 of my own. I'm not going to be hunting with this rifle (at least not in the semi-thick woods that I usually hunt it), so I'm looking for advice on how to go about building a bolt action rifle specifically for long range bench/rest shooting as well as hoping you all will share some of your rifles as well.

I just picked up my project rifle last week, and man is she sweet. I ended up pulling the trigger on a new to me Remington 700 Varmint SF (Stainless Fluted barrel) .308 Winchester with a 26" barrel, and mounted my Millett TRS-1 4-16x50 on top. The scope had some sort of generic cantilever P.E.P.R. style mount attached to it when I purchased it, which was a disaster for my cheek weld on the factory Remington stock. So I just bought some Burris XTR low mounts (rifle has a 20 MOA picatinny rail), and they look great. Nice low clearance, but plenty for the flip-up lens covers to clear the barrel without any issues.

Now I just need Magpul to release the new Hunter 700 chassis and I'll be happy (until one of you posts a picture with the next gadget i HAVE to have ). Perhaps a bipod, but I'm not overly fond of them for bench shooting.







Let's see what you all have, I need ideas for this rifle! Glad to finally be a part of the boards.

[nemesiss45]

Mine is pretty similar to yours, I started with a rem 700 SPS Varmint, swapped the stock for a Choate tactical stock, then made a kydex cheek riser for it. when the trigger recall came out, I bought a Timney Calvin elite trigger for and had it set to an 8oz pull from the factory. I use Harris bipod and have a nikon prostaff 3-9 on it until I can afford a better scope.


I really reccommend a stock and trigger. I calculated a 20% decrease in average group size when I upgraded my stock. some of that was probably me getting more comfortable with the rifle as a whole, but still, a big improvement. I have not had a lot of trigger time with the new timney, but I know it will be a huge improvement just by the feel.

[madmax700]

I haven't even started looking at triggers, but I do believe mine meets the recall criteria. I actually liked the trigger quite a bit when I shot it last, but if I remember correctly the recall what due to the possibility of the rifle discharging randomly, so I should look into a replacement.

As for the stock I am waiting for the Magpul Hunter 700 to be released. Adjustable comb height and length of pull, plus the option for their proprietary bottom metal (polymer?) which is magazine compatible. I am a huge Magpul fan when it comes to AR accessories, so I really hope this lives up to the quality of their other components. Here's a photo off of the Magpul website in case you haven't stumbled upon it yet.



( source: http://www.magpul.com/products/hunte...ariantID=VO343 )

[nemesiss45]

That looks like a good stock. Similar price to the choate and sounds like a similar design with the addition of a built in adjusrable cheek riser and mag well.... i would probably have chosen it had it been around when i needed a stock.

As for a trigger, i thought the stock strigger was great too, but then i got the timney in there and i really got why everyone said they were better.

[precision_shooter]

Most people who shoot Remingtons with a factory trigger, who have never tried another Good trigger, will say the same thing. Once they try a good trigger, Savage Accutrigger, Tikka factory trigger or a Timney, Jewel, etc aftermarket trigger, they then realize what they have been missing.

Here is my target/long range rifle.

Savage 10P-SR, .308, 18" 5R rifled barrel
Factory Stock - Still researching and trying to decide which direction I want to go.
EGW 1 piece base (0 MOA)
Warne Steel 30mm Rings
Vortex Viper 6.5-20x44, 30mm tube with mil-dot reticle
JP Tactical Compensator
Caldwell Rock Mount bi-pod (Harris Clone)
Factory trigger (Breaks around 2lbs, maybe less. Need to get a trigger pull gauge and verify, but it's light)

[madmax700]

Man I love those Savage 10's. My 110 doesn't have the AccuTrigger, which is another big reason I decided to move towards something more precision oriented.

[MtnCreek]

Confirm your scope tracks/returns.
If you're not familiar w/ parallax, learn what it is and how to correct it.
Seek help from an accomplished shooter to learn the basics (form and follow through matter for precision shooting much more than most hunting)
You need some type of rest, bags or bipod.
You need a lot of match ammo (FGMM and Black Hills are both good factory ammo).
Notebook for taking notes / recording data (more durable is better in the long run).

[Damon555]

Here's my current project....6mm XC built on a Savage 12 action.



I tossed this together for 800+ yard shooting. Works like a champ.

I agree with the trigger recommendation....but I'll say this: I thought the Accu-trigger was nice until I tried it for very long range. Not so nice...I swapped the factory trigger out for a Rifle Basix SAV-2 unit....I'll never go back.

[MtnCreek]

Damon, Will you share your barrel specs? Thanks.

[Damon555]

Gladly....It's a bull 28" Criterion pre-fit Savage barrel with a 1-8 twist purchased from Jim at Northland Shooters Supply.

For what it cost this barrel is an excellent value....The finish looks great and it's hand lapped too. I see other Criterion barrels in my future.

[Bart B.]

Damon, what's the barrel's bore and groove diameters to the nearest 1/10,000th inch? Such info's needed to ensure ones bullets are the right size for best accuracy.

[4runnerman]

Damon- I have a Savage 6MMBR that I use for 600 to 1400 yards. The comment on the accu-trigger. Tell me more. Maybe I should change to. I have no problem with it what so ever, but it seem's you did not either. What am I missing. Maybe something new to buy

[Longshot4]

Bart:
What is it that needs to be for bore and groove to bullet size for accuracy?

[Damon555]

Bart, I have no idea what those measurements are....Maybe I should look into that....just never thought it mattered since my bullet choices are pretty much regular 6mm target types such as the Amax or SMK.

4runnerman, I was dead set on keeping the Accu-trigger because it seemed fine. Then I shot a friends 6 BR that has a 1 oz Jewel in it....I was in love but since Jewel doesn't make a savage trigger there were only a few choices...The Rifle Basix was the only one that would go as low as I'd like so that's the one I bought. The Sav-2 is simply outstanding.....very easy to install and relatively easy to adjust. No creep, no over-travel and a 4 or 5 ounce pull was just what the doctor ordered for long range shooting.....The rifle regularly shoots 1/2 MOA @ 800 yards (that's no internet lie either) and it will be getting stretched out even further......A shooting buddy of mine has a few benches set up to shoot a mile...I can't wait to give that a try!

[precision_shooter]

You must have had the regular accutrigger.

I pick up my new rifle next week, which has the target accutrigger and is adjustable down to 6oz pull.

[4runnerman]

Im with precision here. I have the target accutrigger also. I have mine set as low as it will go. Very much a hair trigger.

[Bart B.]

The best match barrel's groove diameters are a few to several ten-thousandths smaller than bullet diameters. Kreiger's "tight" 30 caliber barrels favored by top ranked competitive shooters have .3075" groove diameters. Sierra's 30 caliber match bullets are .3082" to .3084"; at least all those I've measured. Kreiger's "tight" match 30 caliber barrel's bore diameter is .298". John Kreiger makes extra tight barrels for the British Commonwealth fullbore rifles that shoot arsenal 7.62 NATO ammo with smaller diameter, .3070" bullets, having .3065" groove diameter.

https://kriegerbarrels.com/twist#bolt

It's the opinion of most good bullet and barrel makers that tight bores deform bullets less so they're better balanced. Groove diameters larger than bullet diameter lets the bullet upset more when it enters the rifling; they're more unbalanced and don't shoot quite as accurate. This is quite well backed by the accuracy obtained when bullets are bigger than groove diameter. Even match bullets at .3092" drive tacks at long range fired from .3075" groove diameter barrels. The smallest series of 10-shot groups fired at 600 yards I know of was done with Lapua D46 .3092" diameter match bullets fired in a Hart barrel with about .3077" groove diameter. A dozen or more groups, all under 1.5 inches. Then one 40-shot group measuring 1.92".

Western Cartridge Company's 30 caliber 197 and 200 grain match bullets were about .3088" diameter for use in Winchester 70 match rifle barrels with groove diameters about .3084" and they shot very accurate. So did arsenal 172-gr. .3086: diameter match bullets. Sierra' match bullets at .3082" didn't shoot quite as well in them.

[Scorch]

Remington 700, 26" .224" McGowen ss barrel chambered for 224TTH (22-6mm Rem), Jewell trigger, Richards Microfit stock, pillar bedded, Burris Black Diamond 14-40X tactical scope, 20 MOA base. Shot .188" 5-shot group during load development with Hornady 85 gr A-Max over Reloder 25 leaving the barrel at 3,500-ish fps. My customer used it the following fall to shoot a coyote at over 900 yds (lasered the coyote, dialed in the drop, doped the wind, and one dead coyote).

[Bart B.]

What other 5-shot group sizes were shot in load development?

I ask because most accuracy claims state the smallest group shot with a given load. If all groups shot with a given load aren't within 10% of the same size, they don't have enough shots in them to represent the load's real accuracy.

Rarely is the smallest group size repeated; same for the largest. Both define the limits of the system. There's less chance the the centers of a few groups will be at the same place.

All loads are capable of producing a .188" five-shot group. . . .once. Just keep shooting and it'll eventually happen. You may shoot one or two smaller ones before that .188" one shows up.

[BoogieMan]

Cant wait to get my rig setup. So far its rather unimpressive. 700adl in 30-06 with a walnut rem stock. Waiting on bedding compound, rail, and a sightron ffp scope to arrive. I plan to shoot it for a while like that before moving any further. I also have a custom AR in 5.56 with a 4-14 Redfield and a 16" SS bull from RedX.
I see so much difference in the rigs people use and do well with for long range. The only common factor seems to be a heavy barrel. Scopes range from 10x to HP variables. And cartridges are all over the place from big 30's to 6mm's.

[Bart B.]

Light weight, skinny barrels can shoot bullets as accurate as heavy weight, thick ones. Weight and profile have nothing to do with accuracy. But those things do help one hold the rifle more steady.

In my observations of super accurate rifles doing their thing, the common element is their bore and groove diameters. They're very uniform and the groove diameter's smaller than bullet diameter. Most commercial factory and aftermarket barrels are not.

Skinny and lightweight M1 and M14 barrels of good, match grade quality, will shoot handloads and commercial match ammo inside 4 inches at 600 yards. How many commercial or aftermarket barrels of any weight will do that?

[mavracer]

I have a Savage 110 300 wm with a HS precision stock, I decided after I built my 308 AR that my SPS varmint 308 wasn't going to be of much use.

[Damon555]

You must have had the regular accutrigger.

I pick up my new rifle next week, which has the target accutrigger and is adjustable down to 6oz pull.

I'm not sure if the Accu-trigger that I took off was a target style or not. The action is from a rifle built back in '06. Not even sure if they had the target version back then so probably not.

It wasn't the weight of pull that turned me off, as whoever owned the rifle before me had it set pretty low (I never tested it on a scale) but rather the trigger blade itself. Too much of a two stage trigger feel for me. I prefer zero slack in any of my target triggers. Just a personal preference really.

As to not hijack the OP's thread here's my LR308 that's set up for long range steel targets.....

[precision_shooter]

My newest acquisition and will be my long range target rig.
Savage 12 Long Range Precision in 6.5 Creedmoor.

Just need a scope and bipod and I'll be in business.

[wbw]

Very nice precision_shooter. I saw your thread on this rifle.