Scenario, you are sleeping at night!

[aarondhgraham]

The owner was the Chief Dispatcher and they didn't think to inquire of him which one the subject lived in? That is moronic beyond all belief.

He was chief dispatcher for the U. C. Riverside Police Department,,,
That's the University of California at Riverside Campus PD,,,
Not the City of Riverside Police Department.

But you are correct about the moronic part,,,
When they got there and realized they had an invalid warrant,,,
They should have stood down, got a new warrant, and raided the correct cabin.

Each cabin had a separate mailing address,,,
1234A S. Oak St,,,
1234B S. Oak St,,,
1234C S. Oak St,,,
1234D S. Oak St.

The warrant listed 1234 S. Oak St,,,
California law states warrants must be for a specific building
That's why the guy eventually won a huge settlement based on physical harm suffered and harassment under cover of authority.

The harassment was for the D.A. charging him with a felony,,,
So the bad warrant stuff would go away.

Aarond

[markj]

What if you are sleeping in the middle of the night and you hear what seem like your door being kicked in. So you get up and you hear "It's the police, we have a warrant and let me see your hands” My question is what do you do? Do you comply or engage?

Best comply at this point, no early warning bark, no camera, no motion sensored lite to warn you. Just a kicked in door while you are rubbing yer eyes trying to wake up and figure out what the heck is going on.

Draw a gun and you will more than likely get shot up.

[mrgoodwrench76]

You have a better chance of hitting the Powerball than such a thing ever happening

Maybe so, but that dosn't stop people from buying powerball tickets. Shouldn't stop you from considering the possabilities either.

[MLeake]

... Volusia County, IIRC, in 1986.

Sheriff's SWAT team executed a no-knock on a home where informants said major drug deals were going down. Adult male home-owner had fallen asleep while watching a movie, with a .25 auto in his pocket. He woke up to the door crashing in, and his wife and kids screaming. First officer into the room took a .25 round; unfortunately for the officer, it didn't hit his vest, but instead entered in the arm hole of the vest, went through his armpit, and killed him.

Other SWAT members showed good discipline, and did NOT shoot the home-owner.

Search of the home found one or two small marijuana plants in the high school aged son's closet; small ones, personal use size. Parents were unaware.

Powder found in the home was found to be back powder. Home-owner was a painter, who had chronic back pain from a fall from some scaffolding.

Other than the plants in the kid's room, nothing was found.

Sheriff wanted charges brought. DA obliged and filed. One of my college profs helped the defendant with pro bono representation. They plead self-defense against an unidentified threat. They used the no-knock warrant as part of the defense.

Defendant was found Not Guilty.

IIRC, the defendant was quite upset when he realized that he had shot a cop. He had no reason to expect the home invaders to be police, as he had no knowledge of his kid's pot. Even if he had known about it, there wasn't enough there to justify a SWAT team. He thought he had felons breaking into his home.

But sometimes the SWAT raid is for real.

I'd concur with those who say barricade, and call 911 to verify. I'd also concur with those who recommend alarm systems and dogs, because if you don't have a warning, and the reaction time it provides, your list of options gets very short.

[Sport45]

If it was really police or SWAT, there'd probably be a flash-bang or three going off before you have a chance to get out of bed. (You were sound asleep, right?) They would have control of the situation and if you were to be pointing a gun at them when they came through your door you will be in a world of hurt.

So, prepare for the amateurs if you feel you must. But be ready to comply with the authorities if they smash your door by mistake.

[mrgoodwrench76]

Those types of mistakes should NOT happen. The people responsible for that mistake should be held accountable. To charge the homeowner is utter nonsense. On the other hand, If I told the authorities that my inlaws were growin pot.............hmm.

[nefprotector]

Heck man.... I sleep so hard I probably wouldnt know they were even there......

[Jeremiah/Az]

This happened to my brother. He was standing in the kitchen making a peanut butter sandwich. The door busts open & the house is full of cops. Someone had reported a burglary in progress @ the house next door. Cops got the wrong house.

There was a rancher killed by police in southern Az. on a bad tip of a drug deal. He heard the noise, got up, grabbed his gun & was shot. No drugs found.

[kylen]

"WHAT IF" Scenarios like this one are crazy .. best just to comply... if something like this did ever happen, and best if this thread was closed. A little too paranoid if you ask me.

[mrgoodwrench76]

Why is being prepared paranoid? If paranoia saves my life someday, then being paranoid seems like a good idea. Why would the thread need to be closed??? I fail to see your point. Did you even read the posts?

[youngunz4life]

When this scenario plays out whether cops or bad guys, you either get down or get shot unless you clearly don't have a weapon on your person in which case you'll end up on the ground anyways. Heck you probably have a better chance in surviving if its the bad guys coming in if you don't comply. Usually the police knock on the door with the warrant or have a loud speaker or whatever its called; obviously that isn't always the case though.

[egor20]

While I doubt this scenario would happen??? I do agree with the "bolt hole", and have our bedroom as kind of a "safe room". We live on a farm in the middle of nowhere so I doubt the local Sheriff's are going to mistake XXXXX's farm for BBBBB's farm on the warrant. The first thing I would do is look out the window and see if there are a bunch of police cars out front, then dial 911, and ask "Hey Whats Up?". If I don't see a bunch of cars with blue and red lights on out front then we're still dialing 911 and calling in the Cavalry. Whether they are Sheriffs or BG's they're going to be a bit irritated by the constant flashing strobe lights and the noise from the alarm system.

[kgpcr]

OK it did happen once. I am not the least bit concerned with it happening. I have a million things that can happen to me that are more likely to happen that that scenario

[kylen]

Yes sir I did read all the posts... lots of great and different answers. This is a very odd situation. One that I just don't see having a good ending if you don't comply. I was just giving my input. I think if people bust your door down yelling police. It's best to comply. I don't see the need for THIS scenario to be addressed on TFL however. We could literally write a book of what if scenarios... and this one is just crazy.... I apologize if I offended you or anyone else for that matter. I will comply with the police. You do as you please sir.

[Crosshair]

Easy, shoot them until they aren't moving anymore. Until I see and read a warrant they are thugs breaking into my home. I'm not doing anything illegal and if they think I am they can give me a call and we can talk about it like adults.

Sadly, the only way such antics will probably only stop once police start being shot and killed in greater and greater numbers for pulling such stupid stunts and juries acquitting homeowners who face charges for defending themselves.

No-knock warrants have to be one of the dumbest idea ever devised, dumber than a diesel powered alarm clock, not quite as dumb as a razor-wire slinky. You are introducing violence into what should be a non-violent situation. You are attacking someone where they are the least vulnerable, in their home and where they have a massive defenders advantage. Their actions also fit the MO of that of criminals. Not to mention that many of us here have extensive collections that criminals would find very attractive, making such a door crashing event far more likely to be that of a criminal.

[old bear]

Things may have changed since I retired but “no-knock” warrants were issued for daylight hours only, and not to be served in the dead of night. We served warrants at night when required, but we did announce ourselves and demand entrance to the residence. There are several reasons for this, one to protect everyone involved, and to avoid the perception of Nazi Germany night time raids.
Today most, if not all, police agencies have well trained and armed “high risk” arrest teams. So for those of you who have guard dogs, and lots of assorted weapons you may take down one or two of the cops, but you will lose in the end, just through the sear volume of numbers. Think about this, do you really want to expose your family to a pitch gun battle in the middle of the night?
Now to try and answer the original question, if this were to happen to me, I want to believe that I would have the presence of mind to state in a very clear and loud voice that I had a weapon that I would use if forced to and that I was calling 911 as we spoke and for everyone to stand down and none of us would do anything stupid.

[mixer152]

i agree with the calling of 911, and locking an loadin the riot shotty. I do have a shotty loaded, open, with a shell ready to rack, and a .45 USP in my dresser. And yes, if u have a dog....the police, or anyone really set on coming into ur house is gonna shoot them dead. However, if the dog barks, i hope ur wearing a vest, cause u might get me, but between me and my wife....ur chances are slim also.

be safe out there, and have fun

[Catfishman]

SOME of the raids I've seen on reality cop shows make the cops look unprofessional. Swat teams shouldn't scream obcenities and should wear more than black clothing with Police written on it to identify them.

If someone tries to come in my house without my permission, I will arm myself and call the police. If whoever is coming in doesn't stop when I tell them to, things would come to a head.

It is important to have doors that can't be instantly breached.

[Sport45]

It is important to have doors that can't be instantly breached.

Good luck with that....

[Shootin Chef]

I suspect otherwise. I would think this would bring them to their point faster and make you more likely to get shot.

Seriously?
I mean, really?

You think officers train for hours a day, to just rush a closed door with an armed person behind it, when said person has informed them they are armed?
I can assure you that is not the way things are done by the police.

What if said person has a hostage?
What if the door is trapped?
What if the person throws open the door and starts unloading with a fully automatic weapon?

Don't think it will happen? Ask the officers who participated in the North Hollywood robbery if they thought they would face fully automatic fire that morning when they woke up.

The police are not your friends, never trust them, but don't under estimate them.

[mete]

Warrants ?? Nobody has mentioned the Patriot Act .Under that no one needs a warrant !

The scenario is a dangerous one for the home owner .The best you can do is call 911 but you may not have time for that. Shooting it out with a dozen highly armed and armoured cops is a bad scene.

[EricReynolds]

This is a good one. How do you know if they are legit or not until it's all said and done? Hopefully, a person would have the good sense not to jump up guns' a blazin against what may be the police, but...what if they're not? Kylen states it's best to comply. That's what thugs planning a home invasion posed as cops would count on and I believe that's the point of the thread. I don't think this as paranoid or should be taken down at all. Shooting Chief had the best response. If they're legit, the 911 operator will tell you and maybe the officers will slide the warrant under your bedroom door for you to read. If not the 911will dispatch real cops and the BGs will back off when they hear you announce you're armed.

[AK103K]

If you are awake and in the position to do anything, then calling 911 if its available, is really the only way to confirm and possibly fend off shooting the wrong people (assuming they are not yet already in). If they are cops and 911 doenst know they are there for some reason, of well, Doom on them, and probably you.

If they toss in a flash bang, and youre in the same room, its probably best at that point to drop your gun and get down. I think that would probably suffice as conformation its not the bad guys, unless of course, the cops are the bad guys (hey, its all about perspective ).

Me, Ill just yell out real loud (while making the coffee), if the door is opened without my say so, you'll trip the Claymores mounted in the overhead directly behind you. Then comes the hot oil, and then the dogs eat. They LOVE deep fried nuggets.

[mrgoodwrench76]

You think officers train for hours a day, to just rush a closed door with an armed person behind it, when said person has informed them they are armed?
I can assure you that is not the way things are done by the police.

I apreaciate your reassurance but where do you get your information from? Are you a trained law enforcement officer? If so then your statement MIGHT hold water but from what I've seen, Its does NOT.

I think it is more reasonable to assume that if indeed it is the police at your door and they are to the point of breeching the door, and you inform them you are armed, that will most definately escalate the situation, not diffuse it and to think otherwise would, IMO, be nothing short of naive.

If we go by the OP's original scenerio, which this thread is about, then the person in the house suprising the police with automatic weapons does not fit in this scenerio. We were to assume that the occupant of said house is a law abiding citizen who has done nothing wrong. Posessing a fully automatic weapon, for the largest part of the population, would be illegal. For the small percentage of the public that are allowed to have them, the police would be well aware of that fact and I'm sure prepared to deal with it. We should probably keep our responces limited to plausable scenerios.

[mrgoodwrench76]

Well said. I dont think the outcome is going to be good in any instance but any outcome that leaves you breathing is better than the alternative.