How many of you carry alternative means of defense? - Page 2

CZ Gunner · October 1, 2002, 04:44 PM

Does a large pocket knife and a big a$$ flashlight count?

David Park · October 1, 2002, 10:08 PM

I used to only occasionally carry certain items, but now I ALWAYS carry:
handgun w/spare mag(s)
OC spray
Sure-Fire
defensive knife/knives

...only where legal, of course.

eyeballz · October 3, 2002, 01:46 AM

I carry my handgun, ColdSteel folder, and Pepper spray "MACE".
And then whatever happens to be around at the time becomes a weapon.

igor · October 3, 2002, 07:43 AM

Here in Scandinavia there is practically no CCW licensing available - on the other hand, neither are lethal threats. Even the knife culture here is different; the possibility to be confronted with a blade by somebody you don't know and haven't been drinking with for the last ten days is extremely small. Likewise with firearms, if you're not a career criminal or an addict with a lousy credit record, you won't see any pointed towards you.

Once off duty I opted to lend a helpful arm to a bus driver wrestling with an aggressive drug addict - handcuffs would have been an aid but there was really no problem just keeping the arm lock going for a while longer. I considered carrying the cuffs then but dropped it after a while. Likewise with the OC; only on the way to/from work.

Sound tactics and 17 years of ongoing karate training seem to work for me. A Swiss multi-tool, not for use as a "knife" but as a tekko/kubotan hand aid might provide assistance: neat kevlar/nomex-lined frisking gloves certainly do, enabling me to grapple for a blade.

Glamdring · October 4, 2002, 04:01 PM

If your not a LEO or security guard under what situations could you use pepper spray (or similar) where you couldn't (shouldn't?) display a gun? LEO and security guards will sometimes be trying to arrest someone which is a different tactical problem from defending yourself.

I have spent a lot of time trying to think of situations where I would use pepper spray if I had it with me. I have also interviewed as many LEO as possible about how effective is has been for them when used. They have mixed results. Often same LEO will tell about how on subject X it worked great, but it just really made subject Y POed.

There are some real limitations with the use of pepper spray. One it is a CLOSE range weapon. Two can only be used under good environmental conditions: wind direction and strength have to be in your favor, can't be raining much, or snowing much, goblin has to have face and/or eyes exposed. Plus you need a plan B because sometimes pepperspray works real good and other times it is worthless.
Not to mention you can get the stuff on yourself from wind or ending up in grapple with goblin.

Spectre · October 4, 2002, 04:46 PM

Hell, I once used pepper spray on a 14 yr old male who volunteered to be sprayed. He couldn't weighed more than 120 at the time, and probably less. He was smiling for the first five minutes.

I believe OC is best used for dissuading animals and persuading crowds to disperse.

pbarrick · October 5, 2002, 12:20 PM

Oleoresin Capsicum Sprays, just like your firearm, aren't guaranteed to stop a human being engaged in violent, interpersonal conflict. It will have a diminishing effect on the person sprayed but people with a high tolerance for pain will be less effected.

Does that make it useless? No. It's useful because of where it falls under, for instance, the Federal use of force guidelines. It's after verbal and before soft hands (i.e., controlling techniques). They use it as a less-than-lethal tool and drawing that parallel makes it a viable option for self-defense.

However, I'm not going to rely on one tool (whether that's OC Spray or a hand strike) to do what I need it to when I'm facing an aggressor. If I can spray, that gives me an edge because he has to deal with it. If it's enough to stop his aggression, great. If not, I can transition to another appropriate tool (empty hand being a last resort or a way to transition to a higher-level of force).

Ben Shepherd · October 5, 2002, 01:34 PM

I carry a knife as well.

gunorthopod · October 6, 2002, 02:12 AM

If I'm wearing my fanny pack I have Glock M27,spare mag,Asp,OC,and Surefire. Wearing sweater,jacket or sportcoat,just the pistol and my ever present Spyderco.Hope to never have to deploy any of the above.

shy_man · October 6, 2002, 07:21 PM

I live in a busy city of Manila and I just carry my Gov't Model all the time. If the Gov't suspend CCW from time to time then I am just contented with a 4" knife on my belt plus my awareness to my surroundings. I am not going to war anyway.

trapshooter · October 6, 2002, 10:20 PM

in one of the StupidStates, I can't carry a concealed weapon. However, pocketknives with blades less than 4" are not concealed weapons. So... I have a Kershaw SpeedSafe. I took the stupid clip off, and the (totally unecessary) dumb little thumb lever thing on the blade. Perfectly legal, slick as a snake, and as deadly as I need it to be. For all those in a similar situation, I recommend it, if you know how to use a knife. If not, learn. Lots of books available, and you can practice with a stick.

(edited to add):

It is, like any knife this size, a weapon of last resort, and requires close-range work. Not my preference, but I have no other option, at present.

Drjones · October 6, 2002, 10:31 PM

trap:

How 'bout an ASP or Monadnock? Those are way more effective (esp. against someone with a knife) and WAAAY cool!

old_yout · October 7, 2002, 05:32 PM

I carry my pistol, my back-up pistol and an ASP. Also a knife, though I'd never use it in a self-defense situation. Not that it's not capable of it, but I don't think I'm good enough with it.

forby · October 7, 2002, 06:19 PM

I usually carry pepper spray in my vehicle, seldom on my person. The guns are easier to carry!!

I apparently ticked of a motorist in a parking lot one day and he stopped in front of me and got out of his truck in an agressive manner. I reached for my pepper spray (readily available) and shook it while this guy was approaching my car. The event came to an end rather quickly (I'm sure he noticed my shaking a magnum can of pepper spray). Now, try to imagine the s**t that would have hit the fan had I pulled my glock 36 instead!!

SW9mm · October 25, 2002, 05:19 PM

cs9 and an arkansas toothpick (boot dagger)

Cowdogpete · October 25, 2002, 09:16 PM

Lets see. On my person. Always a knife. Always a cell phone. Usually Streamlight.
Always a streamlight scorpion if I'm carrying my gun.

If I'm in my vehicle, 870, 45-70, OC, large mag light, Other pistols. Winchester expandable baton.

Most important weapon as expressed earlier is your brain. Knowing when to get the hell out and when to fight. Get some training is unarmed self defense. It's not hard. Know what to do when the bad guy has a gun and you don't. What are the odds of someone robbing you and already having their gun out? Do you think you can draw your weapon and shoot him before he can pull the trigger? There are othe options.

Get the Edge.

Sylvilagus Aquaticus · October 26, 2002, 01:19 AM

P229 in .357SIG and a long-carried Benchmade automatic.

Regards,
Rabbit.

There cannot be a crisis next week. My schedule is already full. - Henry Kissenger, New York Times Magazine, June 1, 1969.

ddelange · October 27, 2002, 02:38 PM

1. My brain (situational awareness)
2. Glock 26
3. ASP Pepper Gas
4. Delica knife (jiu jitsu defense)
5. Cell Phone

KK20 · October 27, 2002, 02:57 PM

.

LiveWire · October 28, 2002, 06:41 PM

How safe are you without your gun?

How safe are you with your gun?

How much slack is left?

pdmoderator · October 29, 2002, 08:30 AM

Fox keychain OC. Minimag if I'm expecting to be out in the dark. Shillelagh-like walking stick at certain select times and places.

Emerson Commander in case above fails.

- pdmoderator

CULLENIII · November 14, 2002, 04:43 PM

I usually carry 2 handguns, a ASP pepper spray key chain and 2 knives. In regards to use--knives daily, guns displayed 3 times-pulled numerous, pepper spray pulled numerous--used 3 times-two not so friendly dogs and one racoon that wouldnt get the hint.

HS/LD · November 14, 2002, 10:18 PM

I just got home a few minutes ago and emptied my pockets:

H&K Compact .40 165 Golden Sabers x 11
Cold Steel Recon 1
OC spray
Cell Phone

HS/LD

ronin308 · November 14, 2002, 11:12 PM

One of my alternative means of defense is: full size 1911 and 2 spare mags. But on Saturday I get my J-Frame so I'll be carrying a "Chicago Combination". My other alternative means of defense are a CRKT Carson M-16 and a 21" ASP. I carry the ASP on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights when I have a good chance of encountering hostile persons under the influence. Add to all this a decent amount of unarmed skill and I feel alright. But all of these things are just secondary to my primary: my gray matter.

View Poll Results: What do you carry for defense?
I only carry my gun.	19	21.84%
I carry my gun and another nonlethal item.	53	60.92%
I only carry a nonlethal item.	15	17.24%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

October 1, 2002, 04:44 PM	#26
CZ Gunner Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2002 Location: Louisiana Posts: 799	Does a large pocket knife and a big a$$ flashlight count? __________________ Gunner "Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." -- Vegitius, c. 375 AD

October 1, 2002, 10:08 PM	#27
David Park Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2001 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 1,224	I used to only occasionally carry certain items, but now I ALWAYS carry: handgun w/spare mag(s) OC spray Sure-Fire defensive knife/knives ...only where legal, of course. __________________ Libertarian for Bush '04

October 3, 2002, 01:46 AM	#28
eyeballz Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2002 Posts: 320	I carry my handgun, ColdSteel folder, and Pepper spray "MACE". And then whatever happens to be around at the time becomes a weapon. __________________ WAR EAGLE! EBZ

October 3, 2002, 07:43 AM	#29
igor Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2002 Location: Kalifornistan Posts: 155	Here in Scandinavia there is practically no CCW licensing available - on the other hand, neither are lethal threats. Even the knife culture here is different; the possibility to be confronted with a blade by somebody you don't know and haven't been drinking with for the last ten days is extremely small. Likewise with firearms, if you're not a career criminal or an addict with a lousy credit record, you won't see any pointed towards you. Once off duty I opted to lend a helpful arm to a bus driver wrestling with an aggressive drug addict - handcuffs would have been an aid but there was really no problem just keeping the arm lock going for a while longer. I considered carrying the cuffs then but dropped it after a while. Likewise with the OC; only on the way to/from work. Sound tactics and 17 years of ongoing karate training seem to work for me. A Swiss multi-tool, not for use as a "knife" but as a tekko/kubotan hand aid might provide assistance: neat kevlar/nomex-lined frisking gloves certainly do, enabling me to grapple for a blade. __________________ Good karateka I have known were intelligent, original, capable, unpredictable, aggressive, brave, and dangerous. Most had a dark side. Daily practice for decades at hurting other people does not make liberals. John Farnam quoting a friend, Feb. 2004

October 4, 2002, 04:01 PM	#30
Glamdring Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2000 Location: MN Posts: 1,388	If your not a LEO or security guard under what situations could you use pepper spray (or similar) where you couldn't (shouldn't?) display a gun? LEO and security guards will sometimes be trying to arrest someone which is a different tactical problem from defending yourself. I have spent a lot of time trying to think of situations where I would use pepper spray if I had it with me. I have also interviewed as many LEO as possible about how effective is has been for them when used. They have mixed results. Often same LEO will tell about how on subject X it worked great, but it just really made subject Y POed. There are some real limitations with the use of pepper spray. One it is a CLOSE range weapon. Two can only be used under good environmental conditions: wind direction and strength have to be in your favor, can't be raining much, or snowing much, goblin has to have face and/or eyes exposed. Plus you need a plan B because sometimes pepperspray works real good and other times it is worthless. Not to mention you can get the stuff on yourself from wind or ending up in grapple with goblin. __________________ "A traveler has no protection besides his fire-arms; and the constant habit of carrying them is the main check to more frequent robberies" --Charles Darwin from The Voyage Of The Beagle

October 4, 2002, 04:46 PM	#31
Spectre Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 23, 1998 Location: ATL Posts: 3,277	Hell, I once used pepper spray on a 14 yr old male who volunteered to be sprayed. He couldn't weighed more than 120 at the time, and probably less. He was smiling for the first five minutes. I believe OC is best used for dissuading animals and persuading crowds to disperse. __________________ John Wandering Thoughts

October 5, 2002, 12:20 PM	#32
pbarrick Member Join Date: September 19, 2002 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 72	Oleoresin Capsicum Sprays, just like your firearm, aren't guaranteed to stop a human being engaged in violent, interpersonal conflict. It will have a diminishing effect on the person sprayed but people with a high tolerance for pain will be less effected. Does that make it useless? No. It's useful because of where it falls under, for instance, the Federal use of force guidelines. It's after verbal and before soft hands (i.e., controlling techniques). They use it as a less-than-lethal tool and drawing that parallel makes it a viable option for self-defense. However, I'm not going to rely on one tool (whether that's OC Spray or a hand strike) to do what I need it to when I'm facing an aggressor. If I can spray, that gives me an edge because he has to deal with it. If it's enough to stop his aggression, great. If not, I can transition to another appropriate tool (empty hand being a last resort or a way to transition to a higher-level of force). __________________ Paul Barrick Instructor, OPS HQ Options for Personal Security Cutting Edge Training Across the U.S.A. http://www.optionsforpersonalsecurity.com Toll Free 1.877.636.4677

October 5, 2002, 01:34 PM	#33
Ben Shepherd Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2001 Location: Utah Posts: 1,462	I carry a knife as well. __________________ From my cold dead hands......... NRA certified rifle, pistol and shotgun instructor. Hunter education instructor

October 6, 2002, 02:12 AM	#34
gunorthopod Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: California Posts: 80	If I'm wearing my fanny pack I have Glock M27,spare mag,Asp,OC,and Surefire. Wearing sweater,jacket or sportcoat,just the pistol and my ever present Spyderco.Hope to never have to deploy any of the above. __________________ "Illegitimi non carborundum"

October 6, 2002, 07:21 PM	#35
shy_man Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2001 Location: Valenzuela City, Metro Manila, Philippines Posts: 366	I live in a busy city of Manila and I just carry my Gov't Model all the time. If the Gov't suspend CCW from time to time then I am just contented with a 4" knife on my belt plus my awareness to my surroundings. I am not going to war anyway.

October 6, 2002, 10:20 PM	#36
trapshooter Junior member Join Date: January 2, 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 902	Living in one of the StupidStates, I can't carry a concealed weapon. However, pocketknives with blades less than 4" are not concealed weapons. So... I have a Kershaw SpeedSafe. I took the stupid clip off, and the (totally unecessary) dumb little thumb lever thing on the blade. Perfectly legal, slick as a snake, and as deadly as I need it to be. For all those in a similar situation, I recommend it, if you know how to use a knife. If not, learn. Lots of books available, and you can practice with a stick. (edited to add): It is, like any knife this size, a weapon of last resort, and requires close-range work. Not my preference, but I have no other option, at present.

October 6, 2002, 10:31 PM	#37
Drjones Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2002 Posts: 1,239	trap: How 'bout an ASP or Monadnock? Those are way more effective (esp. against someone with a knife) and WAAAY cool!

October 7, 2002, 05:32 PM	#38
old_yout Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: somewhere in the sunny southeast Posts: 349	I carry my pistol, my back-up pistol and an ASP. Also a knife, though I'd never use it in a self-defense situation. Not that it's not capable of it, but I don't think I'm good enough with it. __________________ You can't unring a bell. __________________ Smile, darn ya, smile

October 7, 2002, 06:19 PM	#39
forby Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2001 Posts: 112	I usually carry pepper spray in my vehicle, seldom on my person. The guns are easier to carry!! I apparently ticked of a motorist in a parking lot one day and he stopped in front of me and got out of his truck in an agressive manner. I reached for my pepper spray (readily available) and shook it while this guy was approaching my car. The event came to an end rather quickly (I'm sure he noticed my shaking a magnum can of pepper spray). Now, try to imagine the s**t that would have hit the fan had I pulled my glock 36 instead!! __________________ "With great power, there must also come great responsibility!"

October 25, 2002, 05:19 PM	#40
SW9mm Member Join Date: October 25, 2002 Posts: 48	cs9 and an arkansas toothpick (boot dagger)

October 25, 2002, 09:16 PM	#41
Cowdogpete Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2002 Location: Bosque County, TX Posts: 265	Lets see. On my person. Always a knife. Always a cell phone. Usually Streamlight. Always a streamlight scorpion if I'm carrying my gun. If I'm in my vehicle, 870, 45-70, OC, large mag light, Other pistols. Winchester expandable baton. Most important weapon as expressed earlier is your brain. Knowing when to get the hell out and when to fight. Get some training is unarmed self defense. It's not hard. Know what to do when the bad guy has a gun and you don't. What are the odds of someone robbing you and already having their gun out? Do you think you can draw your weapon and shoot him before he can pull the trigger? There are othe options. Get the Edge. __________________ Smoke on THR I love the smell of cordite in the morning.

October 26, 2002, 01:19 AM	#42
Sylvilagus Aquaticus Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2002 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 120	P229 in .357SIG and a long-carried Benchmade automatic. Regards, Rabbit. There cannot be a crisis next week. My schedule is already full. - Henry Kissenger, New York Times Magazine, June 1, 1969. __________________ "Warning labels thwart the purpose of natural selection".

October 27, 2002, 02:38 PM	#43
ddelange Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 299	1. My brain (situational awareness) 2. Glock 26 3. ASP Pepper Gas 4. Delica knife (jiu jitsu defense) 5. Cell Phone __________________ "War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -- John Stuart Mill

October 27, 2002, 02:57 PM	#44
KK20 Junior Member Join Date: June 12, 2002 Location: MIDLANDS , SOUTH AFRICA Posts: 14	emerson commader . __________________ KK20

October 28, 2002, 06:41 PM	#45
LiveWire Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 281	How safe are you without your gun? How safe are you with your gun? How much slack is left?

October 29, 2002, 08:30 AM	#46
pdmoderator Registration in progress Join Date: November 6, 2001 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,202	*While in PRNJ, all* of my means are "alternative"** Fox keychain OC. Minimag if I'm expecting to be out in the dark. Shillelagh-like walking stick at certain select times and places. Emerson Commander in case above fails. - pdmoderator __________________ Give up no state. Give up no ground.

November 14, 2002, 04:43 PM	#47
CULLENIII Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Central Florida Posts: 55	I usually carry 2 handguns, a ASP pepper spray key chain and 2 knives. In regards to use--knives daily, guns displayed 3 times-pulled numerous, pepper spray pulled numerous--used 3 times-two not so friendly dogs and one racoon that wouldnt get the hint. __________________ We deal in lead friend...

November 14, 2002, 10:18 PM	#48
HS/LD Member Join Date: November 12, 2002 Posts: 61	I just got home a few minutes ago and emptied my pockets: H&K Compact .40 165 Golden Sabers x 11 Cold Steel Recon 1 OC spray Cell Phone HS/LD

November 14, 2002, 11:12 PM	#49
ronin308 Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2001 Posts: 1,977	One of my alternative means of defense is: full size 1911 and 2 spare mags. But on Saturday I get my J-Frame so I'll be carrying a "Chicago Combination". My other alternative means of defense are a CRKT Carson M-16 and a 21" ASP. I carry the ASP on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights when I have a good chance of encountering hostile persons under the influence. Add to all this a decent amount of unarmed skill and I feel alright. But all of these things are just secondary to my primary: my gray matter. __________________ If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara desert in five years there’d be a shortage of sand. -Milton Friedman